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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On January 17 2013 01:49 kafkaesque wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:43 zatic wrote:On January 17 2013 00:35 andrewlt wrote:
Cersei's chapters were interesting in that it showed the POV of a psychopath descending into madness. There is only so much I could read from the perspective of such a hateful character without reading some comeuppance for said character, though. I agree there should have been fewer chapters. Yeah really I found Cerseis chapter among the best. It was just soo good to read how she was more and more proud to be a leader her father would be proud of, and how at the same time her schemes became more and more insane. And how she was unable to see the madness she was getting into and considered herself a genius. The final chapter was amazing as well, when every single one of her insane plots collapses and ends in total disaster for her. Wasn't the final chapter her being driven through the streets of King's Landing, for all the shit she has done? Didn't that chapter end with the 8 feet tall silent White Cloak saving her? She really didn't seem all too worried at the end of that chapter, if I recall correctly.
Probably referencing her final chapter in book 4, which ends with her capture and all her schemes biting her in the ass.
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Zurich15366 Posts
On January 17 2013 01:49 kafkaesque wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:43 zatic wrote:On January 17 2013 00:35 andrewlt wrote:
Cersei's chapters were interesting in that it showed the POV of a psychopath descending into madness. There is only so much I could read from the perspective of such a hateful character without reading some comeuppance for said character, though. I agree there should have been fewer chapters. Yeah really I found Cerseis chapter among the best. It was just soo good to read how she was more and more proud to be a leader her father would be proud of, and how at the same time her schemes became more and more insane. And how she was unable to see the madness she was getting into and considered herself a genius. The final chapter was amazing as well, when every single one of her insane plots collapses and ends in total disaster for her. Wasn't the final chapter her being driven through the streets of King's Landing, for all the shit she has done? Didn't that chapter end with the 8 feet tall silent White Cloak saving her? She really didn't seem all too worried at the end of that chapter, if I recall correctly.
I meant the final in book 4, where everything breaks in. She only has a handful chapters in 5 where trial and the driving through the streets and that stuff happens.
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On January 17 2013 02:36 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:49 kafkaesque wrote:On January 17 2013 00:43 zatic wrote:On January 17 2013 00:35 andrewlt wrote:
Cersei's chapters were interesting in that it showed the POV of a psychopath descending into madness. There is only so much I could read from the perspective of such a hateful character without reading some comeuppance for said character, though. I agree there should have been fewer chapters. Yeah really I found Cerseis chapter among the best. It was just soo good to read how she was more and more proud to be a leader her father would be proud of, and how at the same time her schemes became more and more insane. And how she was unable to see the madness she was getting into and considered herself a genius. The final chapter was amazing as well, when every single one of her insane plots collapses and ends in total disaster for her. Wasn't the final chapter her being driven through the streets of King's Landing, for all the shit she has done? Didn't that chapter end with the 8 feet tall silent White Cloak saving her? She really didn't seem all too worried at the end of that chapter, if I recall correctly. I meant the final in book 4, where everything breaks in. She only has a handful chapters in 5 where trial and the driving through the streets and that stuff happens.
Oh, thanks for the clarification! I somehow remember Tyrion's trial much more vividly than Cersei's.
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On January 17 2013 01:25 Mikau wrote:
I think most of the magic of Littlefinger comes from the fact that you don't know his endgame. He's a great character, but I think knowing what he's planning (both short- and long term) would kinda spoil it. Not sure he'd be fit for a PoV character.
We won't get him as a PoV character either, Martin has said somewhere that all the characters who get PoV chapters have already had them, so there'll be no new pov characters.
I have to agree. In many ways, Varys is a more knowledgeable and powerful Littlefinger but we already know what side he's on, barring some plot twist. The appeal of Littlefinger is that we don't know whose side he's on.
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Germany3367 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:03 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:25 Mikau wrote:
I think most of the magic of Littlefinger comes from the fact that you don't know his endgame. He's a great character, but I think knowing what he's planning (both short- and long term) would kinda spoil it. Not sure he'd be fit for a PoV character.
We won't get him as a PoV character either, Martin has said somewhere that all the characters who get PoV chapters have already had them, so there'll be no new pov characters. I have to agree. In many ways, Varys is a more knowledgeable and powerful Littlefinger but we already know what side he's on, barring some plot twist. The appeal of Littlefinger is that we don't know whose side he's on.
I do agree. I always have to think of Palpatine from Star Wars when I read about Littlefinger, which makes him even more awesome. He is my favourite character, one just does not know what he is planning next.
And with control over the Vale he has one of the few fresh armys in Westeros. I am really lokking forward to see what he is plotting now.
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The only side that Littlefinger belongs to is the one that will win.
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On January 17 2013 04:03 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:25 Mikau wrote:
I think most of the magic of Littlefinger comes from the fact that you don't know his endgame. He's a great character, but I think knowing what he's planning (both short- and long term) would kinda spoil it. Not sure he'd be fit for a PoV character.
We won't get him as a PoV character either, Martin has said somewhere that all the characters who get PoV chapters have already had them, so there'll be no new pov characters. I have to agree. In many ways, Varys is a more knowledgeable and powerful Littlefinger but we already know what side he's on, barring some plot twist. The appeal of Littlefinger is that we don't know whose side he's on.
a few dozen pages back in this thread i remember having an argument about Varrys's true goals, since some of the stuff are contradictory. Mainly how she views Danny, and whether she is part of his plan, and Ilyrio and him are indeed fully on the same page or not.
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Littlefinger's side has been clear for a while. He is on Littlefinger's side.
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I'm going to need a refresher here. They council willingly let Littlefinger go to Woo the Vale, now what? Have they not heard anything about what he is doing? Are they expecting the Knights of the Vale to join the war? Do they not sense the obvious double stab? I can't remember the political connection now between Littlefinger and the existing council
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On January 17 2013 08:57 aloT wrote:
I'm going to need a refresher here. They council willingly let Littlefinger go to Woo the Vale, now what? Have they not heard anything about what he is doing? Are they expecting the Knights of the Vale to join the war? Do they not sense the obvious double stab? I can't remember the political connection now between Littlefinger and the existing council
They replaced him with a new master of coin. Littlefinger became lord of the riverlands instead. The riverlands is in a mess, so I guess they just expect him to get his new house in order.
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On January 17 2013 04:03 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:25 Mikau wrote:
I think most of the magic of Littlefinger comes from the fact that you don't know his endgame. He's a great character, but I think knowing what he's planning (both short- and long term) would kinda spoil it. Not sure he'd be fit for a PoV character.
We won't get him as a PoV character either, Martin has said somewhere that all the characters who get PoV chapters have already had them, so there'll be no new pov characters. I have to agree. In many ways, Varys is a more knowledgeable and powerful Littlefinger but we already know what side he's on, barring some plot twist. The appeal of Littlefinger is that we don't know whose side he's on.
Well, the one thing that's certain about Littlefinger is that he saw Cat as his true love and soulmate, so i'm quite certain that his plan involves revenge on those who took her from him, that means Lannister, Frey, Bolton and to a lesser degree still Stark. I can imagine that revenge is his main motive, even bigger than ambition and the need for power.
What i wonder is how Sansa fits into that, if she's just a tool for him, or if she's really a emotional and physical replacement for Cat, which would make Littlefinger quite a weirdo.
Thinking about it, i could definitely see the tv Littlefinger to be that weirdo, as he's being portrayed as a different character, than in the books, where he comes of as a smart player.
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On January 17 2013 00:35 andrewlt wrote:
The worst for me is the Iron Islands segment. It's just full of uninteresting and unsympathetic characters. Hell, their entire culture is uninteresting and sympathetic. Balon's brothers just annoy me and the faster they die off, the better.
Euron is interesting and enigmatic. He seems like a potentially powerful figure to me, especially if all the legends of his exploits are true... though he also does seem like a bit of a psychopath
On January 17 2013 01:29 Mataru wrote:
While I think some of the allure of Littlefinger is that you never actually get to fully know what's going on inside his head, he is one of my favourite characters and I would probably be delighted to see a PoV or three from him in the next book. I also think it might be interesting to get inside Ramsay's head, though I do have a certain morbid fascination with psychopaths. Also, Howland Reed!
Edit: Oh and Margaery Tyrell could be an interesting PoV aswell.
I would definitely appreciate a Tyrell POV. I like Garlan Tyrell for how he empathized with Tyrion, and stood up for him to a small extent.. But he's not really an important of enough character to get a POV unfortunately. Margaery would be pretty neat though
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Unfortunately GRRM said there won't be any new POVs 
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On January 17 2013 11:17 scudst0rm wrote:Unfortunately GRRM said there won't be any new POVs
That actually makes me kind of wonder, will the person who wins in the end be a POV character or not? I guess they could always have a character watch someone close to them come to the throne (i.e. Melisandre with Stannis, Connington with Aegon.etc) but I don't think it would be as satisfying that way. If we do assume the person who finally takes the throne is a POV character, the list cuts down dramatically, with Dany being the most obvious choice.
I am happy though that G.R.R.M isn't doing any chapters from Littlefinger's POV. Him, along with Varys, are interesting characters because you can never be sure of what they do next. If you have a POV chapter, it'll basically reveal their end game which would ruin it a bit IMO. To a slightly lesser degree, I feel like the same thing happened with Melisandre too. Before her chapters, we were always kind of left guessing as to how strong she was (like every other character in the book), which really made her more intriguing as a character.
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A POV of any of the major Game players would be so damn idiotic. It completely removes the mystery behind them and their actions
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You can still tell a story from a character's POV without revealing their endgame. GRRM is actually very good at progressing a story and withholding information from the reader at the same time. He does this in A LOT of his chapters. He loves to open up without discussing the resolution to the previous chapter in that character's story. Forcing the reader to delve further into the chapter before feeling satisfied from the cliffhanger before.
Not saying he should, but just saying he could right a chapter from a mysterious character's point of view, without ruining much of the mystery.
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On January 17 2013 11:32 Ario wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 11:17 scudst0rm wrote:Unfortunately GRRM said there won't be any new POVs That actually makes me kind of wonder, will the person who wins in the end be a POV character or not? I guess they could always have a character watch someone close to them come to the throne (i.e. Melisandre with Stannis, Connington with Aegon.etc) but I don't think it would be as satisfying that way. If we do assume the person who finally takes the throne is a POV character, the list cuts down dramatically, with Dany being the most obvious choice. I am happy though that G.R.R.M isn't doing any chapters from Littlefinger's POV. Him, along with Varys, are interesting characters because you can never be sure of what they do next. If you have a POV chapter, it'll basically reveal their end game which would ruin it a bit IMO. To a slightly lesser degree, I feel like the same thing happened with Melisandre too. Before her chapters, we were always kind of left guessing as to how strong she was (like every other character in the book), which really made her more intriguing as a character.
Its entirely possible GRRM wont have a winner, every main character dies and in the epilogue we have a closing chapter, which doesnt have to be from a POV char. since it's not technically a chapter
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On January 17 2013 17:07 itkovian wrote:
You can still tell a story from a character's POV without revealing their endgame. GRRM is actually very good at progressing a story and withholding information from the reader at the same time. He does this in A LOT of his chapters. He loves to open up without discussing the resolution to the previous chapter in that character's story. Forcing the reader to delve further into the chapter before feeling satisfied from the cliffhanger before.
Not saying he should, but just saying he could right a chapter from a mysterious character's point of view, without ruining much of the mystery.
The point of POV is for us to understand WHY as well as WHAT that character does certain actions. To do a POV for LF/Euron/Varys etc without spoiling the WHY or WHAT they want would be just about the most boring thing ever unless it's literally those three in the same room together being snide to each other. In which case it would be the best thing ever.
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On January 17 2013 18:00 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 17:07 itkovian wrote:
You can still tell a story from a character's POV without revealing their endgame. GRRM is actually very good at progressing a story and withholding information from the reader at the same time. He does this in A LOT of his chapters. He loves to open up without discussing the resolution to the previous chapter in that character's story. Forcing the reader to delve further into the chapter before feeling satisfied from the cliffhanger before.
Not saying he should, but just saying he could right a chapter from a mysterious character's point of view, without ruining much of the mystery. The point of POV is for us to understand WHY as well as WHAT that character does certain actions. To do a POV for LF/Euron/Varys etc without spoiling the WHY or WHAT they want would be just about the most boring thing ever unless it's literally those three in the same room together being snide to each other. In which case it would be the best thing ever.
While I think it would be possible to have POV chapters of characters such as littlefinger without revealing their endgame, it probably is better for the story to have them remain as enigmatic as they are. It's more just wanting to get a glimpse into their minds and thoughts because they are awesome characters.
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That's the best way in ruining fictional characters. Was Bane improved in Dark Knight Rises when we found out about his past and motivations? Was Joker made better because we know nearly nothing about him?
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EPT
