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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On December 30 2012 13:20 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 05:13 HardlyNever wrote:After poking around a bit on the Song of Fire and Ice wiki, it appears that this is a pretty common/popular theory for fans. That alone makes me think that GRRM won't put it in at this point, even if he may have originally intended to. It isn't much of a "twist" if a lot of people see it coming; he might do something bizarre and make the mother someone weird, but I don't see Jon not being Ned's son at this point. Just my two cents. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_SnowAt the very bottom under parentage is the part I'm talking about. That is incredibly idiotic, you honestly think GRRM would change his originally planned story from nearly two decades ago because of what his fans think? He's said that he's not changing the story because of us
Wow angry much?
And yeah, I would. I don't think you know much about the writing world. The whole point of something like that would to be a surprise to the audience, and if a good portion of the audience has already figured it out... what is the point? I think you are taking the books too seriously. They are made up, you know that right? He doesn't "need" to do anything as "originally planned." Also, where in the world are you getting that GRRM has an "original plan?" He has had to chop up books, delay delay delay, and rewrite things time and time again, by his own admission. Doesn't seem like he has some grand master plan. A bit on his writing process is here:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1
I'm not even assuming that this theory is "correct," and if I had to put money on it, I do think Ned will be Jon's real father after all. You might want to do some research on the author and how he works before you start calling people "idiotic." You sort of look that way right now.
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With regards to the "song of fire and ice" and the book leading up to a battle between the god of fire (R'hllor some call him) and the god of ice (the Others' god, god whose name shall not be spoken). I agree that is where the story is headed and "magic" and the like coming from the gods will probably start to play an even larger role. There also seems to be different forms of magic (fire, blood/life, shadow, and perhaps ice/cold) which might come from different gods/sources or different aspects of the same gods.
However, in good GRRM fashion, it won't be a black and white battle of "good" and "evil." We've seen that people who follow the fire god can do some pretty evil things, and we've seen a bit of what people that follow the ice god can do when/if they retain some individualism (Coldhands aka Benjen Stark I'm pretty sure). We really don't know much about the Others and how they live or operate, and I bet it won't be "pure evil" when it's all said and done.
I'm also expecting bizarre alliances and betrayals ( ie Starks allying with Lannisters) as this all unfolds and people choose which side they want to fight for (for their own gain or perhaps the ideals of the "gods").
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On January 02 2013 02:04 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 13:20 Dakkas wrote:On December 30 2012 05:13 HardlyNever wrote:After poking around a bit on the Song of Fire and Ice wiki, it appears that this is a pretty common/popular theory for fans. That alone makes me think that GRRM won't put it in at this point, even if he may have originally intended to. It isn't much of a "twist" if a lot of people see it coming; he might do something bizarre and make the mother someone weird, but I don't see Jon not being Ned's son at this point. Just my two cents. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_SnowAt the very bottom under parentage is the part I'm talking about. That is incredibly idiotic, you honestly think GRRM would change his originally planned story from nearly two decades ago because of what his fans think? He's said that he's not changing the story because of us Wow angry much? And yeah, I would. I don't think you know much about the writing world. The whole point of something like that would to be a surprise to the audience, and if a good portion of the audience has already figured it out... what is the point? I think you are taking the books too seriously. They are made up, you know that right? He doesn't "need" to do anything as "originally planned." Also, where in the world are you getting that GRRM has an "original plan?" He has had to chop up books, delay delay delay, and rewrite things time and time again, by his own admission. Doesn't seem like he has some grand master plan. A bit on his writing process is here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1I'm not even assuming that this theory is "correct," and if I had to put money on it, I do think Ned will be Jon's real father after all. You might want to do some research on the author and how he works before you start calling people "idiotic." You sort of look that way right now.
i just wanted to chime in and let you know that most of the readers of this story probably don't spend any time online researching what other people have speculated as to the future possible plot spoilers
we are the minority, and the majority thinks that Jon's father is Ned... anything else is going to be a surprise to the majority
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On January 02 2013 02:55 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 02:04 HardlyNever wrote:On December 30 2012 13:20 Dakkas wrote:On December 30 2012 05:13 HardlyNever wrote:After poking around a bit on the Song of Fire and Ice wiki, it appears that this is a pretty common/popular theory for fans. That alone makes me think that GRRM won't put it in at this point, even if he may have originally intended to. It isn't much of a "twist" if a lot of people see it coming; he might do something bizarre and make the mother someone weird, but I don't see Jon not being Ned's son at this point. Just my two cents. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_SnowAt the very bottom under parentage is the part I'm talking about. That is incredibly idiotic, you honestly think GRRM would change his originally planned story from nearly two decades ago because of what his fans think? He's said that he's not changing the story because of us Wow angry much? And yeah, I would. I don't think you know much about the writing world. The whole point of something like that would to be a surprise to the audience, and if a good portion of the audience has already figured it out... what is the point? I think you are taking the books too seriously. They are made up, you know that right? He doesn't "need" to do anything as "originally planned." Also, where in the world are you getting that GRRM has an "original plan?" He has had to chop up books, delay delay delay, and rewrite things time and time again, by his own admission. Doesn't seem like he has some grand master plan. A bit on his writing process is here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1I'm not even assuming that this theory is "correct," and if I had to put money on it, I do think Ned will be Jon's real father after all. You might want to do some research on the author and how he works before you start calling people "idiotic." You sort of look that way right now. i just wanted to chime in and let you know that most of the readers of this story probably don't spend any time online researching what other people have speculated as to the future possible plot spoilers we are the minority, and the majority thinks that Jon's father is Ned... anything else is going to be a surprise to the majority
Perhaps. I think he's deliberately left himself options regarding Jon so he can do whatever he feels fits best with the way the story develops. Could he be Lyanna and Rhaegar's son? Definitely. I, personally, think that is too Disney-corny for the story (You aren't really a bastard but a prince! Now go claim your throne!), but if that is the direction he takes it, I'll still enjoy the books.
I think being a bastard son that has to make his way through the world is better story, but that is me.
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On January 02 2013 03:02 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 02:55 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On January 02 2013 02:04 HardlyNever wrote:On December 30 2012 13:20 Dakkas wrote:On December 30 2012 05:13 HardlyNever wrote:After poking around a bit on the Song of Fire and Ice wiki, it appears that this is a pretty common/popular theory for fans. That alone makes me think that GRRM won't put it in at this point, even if he may have originally intended to. It isn't much of a "twist" if a lot of people see it coming; he might do something bizarre and make the mother someone weird, but I don't see Jon not being Ned's son at this point. Just my two cents. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_SnowAt the very bottom under parentage is the part I'm talking about. That is incredibly idiotic, you honestly think GRRM would change his originally planned story from nearly two decades ago because of what his fans think? He's said that he's not changing the story because of us Wow angry much? And yeah, I would. I don't think you know much about the writing world. The whole point of something like that would to be a surprise to the audience, and if a good portion of the audience has already figured it out... what is the point? I think you are taking the books too seriously. They are made up, you know that right? He doesn't "need" to do anything as "originally planned." Also, where in the world are you getting that GRRM has an "original plan?" He has had to chop up books, delay delay delay, and rewrite things time and time again, by his own admission. Doesn't seem like he has some grand master plan. A bit on his writing process is here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1I'm not even assuming that this theory is "correct," and if I had to put money on it, I do think Ned will be Jon's real father after all. You might want to do some research on the author and how he works before you start calling people "idiotic." You sort of look that way right now. i just wanted to chime in and let you know that most of the readers of this story probably don't spend any time online researching what other people have speculated as to the future possible plot spoilers we are the minority, and the majority thinks that Jon's father is Ned... anything else is going to be a surprise to the majority Perhaps. I think he's deliberately left himself options regarding Jon so he can do whatever he feels fits best with the way the story develops. Could he be Lyanna and Rhaegar's son? Definitely. I, personally, think that is too Disney-corny for the story (You aren't really a bastard but a prince! Now go claim your throne!), but if that is the direction he takes it, I'll still enjoy the books. I think being a bastard son that has to make his way through the world is better story, but that is me.
In the show Ned only calls Jon his blood. I can't remember if it is the same in the book. If this is the case then it almost promises that Jon's parentage is L+R or some other weird combo not involving Ned.
Would be an interesting comparison between how Ned talks with Jon and the rest of the Stark kids.
Also GRRM has said he didn't expect people to read so deeply into things and he basically said "Whoops you caught me!" in not so many words. It will be interesting to see if he sticks to his plan or changes things up.
Edit: BTW if L+R is correct Jon is still a bastard. Pretty sure no matter what he is a bastard. So the realm wouldn't view him as a legitimate claimant to anything unless the king/queen declared him such.
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According to:
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow/Theories
The prevailing theory on the "L+R" parentage is that they were "secretly married" which would make him legitimate, technically speaking. You could of course have a slight "they didn't get married" variant.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Robert always accused Rhaegar of raping Lyanna, so Jon could be a product of that, if you believe Robert. Again, with or without a marriage involved at some point.
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The deployment of 3 out of the top 4 knights in the kingsguard says they were married. It isn't a lot of evidence but GRRM isn't a writer who smudges details so until some new data or line of reasoning is presented I'm running with it.
Edit:
This thread runs in circles a lot, particularly on R+L=J. Just go back and read what has been said before. There should be a section on the topic every 15 pages or so IIRC. Between reading the TotH theory article, the westeros.org tread on it, both of which have been linked many times, and things that have already been said here about everything there is to say on the topic is available barring an entirely new theory.
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On January 02 2013 00:18 BallinWitStalin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 13:39 itkovian wrote:On December 30 2012 19:06 BluePanther wrote:Just curious because I don't see this in the wiki you linked (which is rather extensive). Is it me or does the fact that the Red Priests refer to the god of Ice and Death as "The Other God" seem important to anyone else? "The Others", "God of Ice", "God of Death", "A song of Fire and Ice" Seems like "The Others" (and possibly Ice Dragons) are minions of the Ice god, while the Dragons are adherents of the Fire god. Both the Others and the Dragons notice their powers rising at the same time. It cannot be coincidence, I just wonder how relevant this ultimately is. This is the closest I got: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_OtherRe the other conversation about Jon Snow. It makes too much sense for it not to be that, as it would also permit him to be Azor Ahai. Logically, it probably means that Lightbringer is the Nights Watch, which makes sense as well given the story. "I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men."Lightbringer was said to burn even in the cold. The light that brings the dawn = Lightbringer. Azor Ahai awakes the stone dragons on Dragonstone, and we all know about a certain horn with Fiery Capacities already in existence... Would play right into the fact that Fire (Dragons/Fire god) fights Ice (Others/Ice god) Yeah, the whole series seems to be building up to a mega defense at the wall, where the whole united realm defends against the power of the Others. Honestly, I'm not excited for it. The Others are one of the only forces in GRRM's universe that seem like pure evil, without multidimensional characteristics. Too black and white for me. But if you're a fan of fight scenes, it should be pretty entertaining. Jon Snow and Dany and probably Aegon riding around on their dragons pew-pewing evil ice demons. Jon Snow, Dany, and Tyrion riding dragons. Tyrion (more or less said this): "When I was a child, I used to dream of riding dragons"....Goes on to say that as an adult he learned that was just a childhood fantasy. THINK AGAIN.
Haha. While I think that would be pretty awesome, I have a hard timing believing that will come to pass. I'm curious to see how Dany and Tyrion will hit it off. Instinctively, Dany will not trust him for being a Lannister. And its very easy for me to imagine Tyrion getting an unfair death because that seems to be his life story. e.g. Dany has him beheaded or something. But then that makes me wonder why GRRM would have him travel so far and so long to get to her, only to have him die a unfulfilling death. Yet, that's what happened to Quenten Martell. So who knows. I do think Tyrion is going to die at some point before the series is over. The question is just when and how
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Tyrion is too important, stubborn and smart to die by any political means or intelligent hand. If he dies, it will be by a stray arrow, or mugged by a no name thief, or accidently falling off a boat and drowning. It seems an inglorious and incosnequential death would fit him well.
I would read a book about Ser Arthur Dayne.
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On January 02 2013 06:07 itkovian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 00:18 BallinWitStalin wrote:On December 31 2012 13:39 itkovian wrote:On December 30 2012 19:06 BluePanther wrote:Just curious because I don't see this in the wiki you linked (which is rather extensive). Is it me or does the fact that the Red Priests refer to the god of Ice and Death as "The Other God" seem important to anyone else? "The Others", "God of Ice", "God of Death", "A song of Fire and Ice" Seems like "The Others" (and possibly Ice Dragons) are minions of the Ice god, while the Dragons are adherents of the Fire god. Both the Others and the Dragons notice their powers rising at the same time. It cannot be coincidence, I just wonder how relevant this ultimately is. This is the closest I got: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_OtherRe the other conversation about Jon Snow. It makes too much sense for it not to be that, as it would also permit him to be Azor Ahai. Logically, it probably means that Lightbringer is the Nights Watch, which makes sense as well given the story. "I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men."Lightbringer was said to burn even in the cold. The light that brings the dawn = Lightbringer. Azor Ahai awakes the stone dragons on Dragonstone, and we all know about a certain horn with Fiery Capacities already in existence... Would play right into the fact that Fire (Dragons/Fire god) fights Ice (Others/Ice god) Yeah, the whole series seems to be building up to a mega defense at the wall, where the whole united realm defends against the power of the Others. Honestly, I'm not excited for it. The Others are one of the only forces in GRRM's universe that seem like pure evil, without multidimensional characteristics. Too black and white for me. But if you're a fan of fight scenes, it should be pretty entertaining. Jon Snow and Dany and probably Aegon riding around on their dragons pew-pewing evil ice demons. Jon Snow, Dany, and Tyrion riding dragons. Tyrion (more or less said this): "When I was a child, I used to dream of riding dragons"....Goes on to say that as an adult he learned that was just a childhood fantasy. THINK AGAIN. Haha. While I think that would be pretty awesome, I have a hard timing believing that will come to pass. I'm curious to see how Dany and Tyrion will hit it off. Instinctively, Dany will not trust him for being a Lannister. And its very easy for me to imagine Tyrion getting an unfair death because that seems to be his life story. e.g. Dany has him beheaded or something. But then that makes me wonder why GRRM would have him travel so far and so long to get to her, only to have him die a unfulfilling death. Yet, that's what happened to Quenten Martell. So who knows. I do think Tyrion is going to die at some point before the series is over. The question is just when and how
Martell was more of a weenie than his dad though. He was just like the typically low-level prince hoping to escalate himself by rescuing the princess in the high-tower. Except GRRM would rather the dragon win, cause that's what happened to 99% of the princes in the stories that we never saw.
Tyrion could possibly die, I think that is just the case with all characters. My hope is he gets to use his witty nature to get close to Dany and that Selmy is all like "I DUN know bout this" and hilarity ensues.
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On January 02 2013 02:04 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 13:20 Dakkas wrote:On December 30 2012 05:13 HardlyNever wrote:After poking around a bit on the Song of Fire and Ice wiki, it appears that this is a pretty common/popular theory for fans. That alone makes me think that GRRM won't put it in at this point, even if he may have originally intended to. It isn't much of a "twist" if a lot of people see it coming; he might do something bizarre and make the mother someone weird, but I don't see Jon not being Ned's son at this point. Just my two cents. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_SnowAt the very bottom under parentage is the part I'm talking about. That is incredibly idiotic, you honestly think GRRM would change his originally planned story from nearly two decades ago because of what his fans think? He's said that he's not changing the story because of us Wow angry much? And yeah, I would. I don't think you know much about the writing world. The whole point of something like that would to be a surprise to the audience, and if a good portion of the audience has already figured it out... what is the point? I think you are taking the books too seriously. They are made up, you know that right? He doesn't "need" to do anything as "originally planned." Also, where in the world are you getting that GRRM has an "original plan?" He has had to chop up books, delay delay delay, and rewrite things time and time again, by his own admission. Doesn't seem like he has some grand master plan. A bit on his writing process is here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1I'm not even assuming that this theory is "correct," and if I had to put money on it, I do think Ned will be Jon's real father after all. You might want to do some research on the author and how he works before you start calling people "idiotic." You sort of look that way right now.
I love that argument "DO YOU KNOW THE BOOKS AREN'T REAL???". Because that is like the most passive aggressive question you can ask anyone while looking so lofty and intelligent. Do you think you're a better person with that incredibly inane rhetorical question? Does that validate everything you've said? Please at least everything I've said is related and not straw-man
Now I don't know what writing world you're in, maybe the cheap low class Hollywood one? Or maybe something reminiscent of Twilight. BTW that was me being passive aggressive! Aren't I smart? Anyway, my point is that aSoIaF is Gurm's magnum opus, something he's been working on for around two decades now and can likely come close to a third. In this time he has gained an immense following and now he's one of the most well known writers in the world.
Now with that in mind, pray tell with your vastly more logical understanding what real writer with integrity will sacrifice decades of build-up just for a "suprise" that will only "surprise" his hard-core fans? Casual readers won't get it and it won't surprise them, they already think Ned + X = Jon, it won't surprise tv show viewers either because there's no R+L=J in there either. The only people that it'll get are the people that spend many hours on the internet, which as other people have pointed out is a lot less than you think.
So going with your view-point, if Ned really is the dad then it means that it will surprise a relatively small amount of readers because everyone else already thinks Ned is the dad. Wow, that's great writing right there. Superb stuff, Tolkien would be proud. Even ignoring that, how would you explain all the build-up and hints in the books? Are they all a coincidence and are red herrings? What is the promise that Ned tarnished his honor for?
But silly me, who cares about hints and foreshadowing? That is meaningless, asoiaf doesn't have any foreshadowing ever and it doesn't need it! And so what if it does? That doesn't compare to a surprise!
PS. You completely misunderstood his writing process, what he has done is make the story longer. He hasn't said that he's changed major story events, the closest is the 5-year time-skip however what happened during then was what mainly happen in Feast and Dance and likely some of Winds
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I don't think Tyrion has to fear his first meeting with Dany based on family history. Surely he would have a witty comment on 'sins of the father' to make if the daughter of the mad king decided to hate him for what Tywin did. Let alone bringing up their obvious usefulness to each other.
He mostly needs to worry about his political opponents among her 'staff'. A westerosi 'lord', with all the priorities Tyrion obviously has, will be a new and less easily marginalized voice joining Selmy in the "GTFO of this stupid place" movement. In his favor is that she has already decided that is the better policy on her own.
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On January 02 2013 12:39 Irrelevant Label wrote:
I don't think Tyrion has to fear his first meeting with Dany based on family history. Surely he would have a witty comment on 'sins of the father' to make if the daughter of the mad king decided to hate him for what Tywin did. Let alone bringing up their obvious usefulness to each other.
He mostly needs to worry about his political opponents among her 'staff'. A westerosi 'lord', with all the priorities Tyrion obviously has, will be a new and less easily marginalized voice joining Selmy in the "GTFO of this stupid place" movement. In his favor is that she has already decided that is the better policy on her own.
Without Tyrion, Dany is going to be quite short of able leaders. If she is plausibly going to hold westeros she'll need tyrion.
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On January 02 2013 11:57 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 02:04 HardlyNever wrote:On December 30 2012 13:20 Dakkas wrote:On December 30 2012 05:13 HardlyNever wrote:After poking around a bit on the Song of Fire and Ice wiki, it appears that this is a pretty common/popular theory for fans. That alone makes me think that GRRM won't put it in at this point, even if he may have originally intended to. It isn't much of a "twist" if a lot of people see it coming; he might do something bizarre and make the mother someone weird, but I don't see Jon not being Ned's son at this point. Just my two cents. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_SnowAt the very bottom under parentage is the part I'm talking about. That is incredibly idiotic, you honestly think GRRM would change his originally planned story from nearly two decades ago because of what his fans think? He's said that he's not changing the story because of us Wow angry much? And yeah, I would. I don't think you know much about the writing world. The whole point of something like that would to be a surprise to the audience, and if a good portion of the audience has already figured it out... what is the point? I think you are taking the books too seriously. They are made up, you know that right? He doesn't "need" to do anything as "originally planned." Also, where in the world are you getting that GRRM has an "original plan?" He has had to chop up books, delay delay delay, and rewrite things time and time again, by his own admission. Doesn't seem like he has some grand master plan. A bit on his writing process is here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1I'm not even assuming that this theory is "correct," and if I had to put money on it, I do think Ned will be Jon's real father after all. You might want to do some research on the author and how he works before you start calling people "idiotic." You sort of look that way right now. I love that argument "DO YOU KNOW THE BOOKS AREN'T REAL???". Because that is like the most passive aggressive question you can ask anyone while looking so lofty and intelligent. Do you think you're a better person with that incredibly inane rhetorical question? Does that validate everything you've said? Please at least everything I've said is related and not straw-man Now I don't know what writing world you're in, maybe the cheap low class Hollywood one? Or maybe something reminiscent of Twilight. BTW that was me being passive aggressive! Aren't I smart? Anyway, my point is that aSoIaF is Gurm's magnum opus, something he's been working on for around two decades now and can likely come close to a third. In this time he has gained an immense following and now he's one of the most well known writers in the world. Now with that in mind, pray tell with your vastly more logical understanding what real writer with integrity will sacrifice decades of build-up just for a "suprise" that will only "surprise" his hard-core fans? Casual readers won't get it and it won't surprise them, they already think Ned + X = Jon, it won't surprise tv show viewers either because there's no R+L=J in there either. The only people that it'll get are the people that spend many hours on the internet, which as other people have pointed out is a lot less than you think. So going with your view-point, if Ned really is the dad then it means that it will surprise a relatively small amount of readers because everyone else already thinks Ned is the dad. Wow, that's great writing right there. Superb stuff, Tolkien would be proud. Even ignoring that, how would you explain all the build-up and hints in the books? Are they all a coincidence and are red herrings? What is the promise that Ned tarnished his honor for? But silly me, who cares about hints and foreshadowing? That is meaningless, asoiaf doesn't have any foreshadowing ever and it doesn't need it! And so what if it does? That doesn't compare to a surprise! PS. You completely misunderstood his writing process, what he has done is make the story longer. He hasn't said that he's changed major story events, the closest is the 5-year time-skip however what happened during then was what mainly happen in Feast and Dance and likely some of Winds
Yeah, you're just kind of angry. I didn't even really read most of what you said b/c I saw a lot of raging. I'm just going to ignore you at this point and we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I think the story would be better if Ned is Jon's father. That is all I can really say at this point. But you can go on with the raging and name calling. It makes you look cool.
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On January 02 2013 13:02 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 11:57 Dakkas wrote:On January 02 2013 02:04 HardlyNever wrote:On December 30 2012 13:20 Dakkas wrote:On December 30 2012 05:13 HardlyNever wrote:After poking around a bit on the Song of Fire and Ice wiki, it appears that this is a pretty common/popular theory for fans. That alone makes me think that GRRM won't put it in at this point, even if he may have originally intended to. It isn't much of a "twist" if a lot of people see it coming; he might do something bizarre and make the mother someone weird, but I don't see Jon not being Ned's son at this point. Just my two cents. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_SnowAt the very bottom under parentage is the part I'm talking about. That is incredibly idiotic, you honestly think GRRM would change his originally planned story from nearly two decades ago because of what his fans think? He's said that he's not changing the story because of us Wow angry much? And yeah, I would. I don't think you know much about the writing world. The whole point of something like that would to be a surprise to the audience, and if a good portion of the audience has already figured it out... what is the point? I think you are taking the books too seriously. They are made up, you know that right? He doesn't "need" to do anything as "originally planned." Also, where in the world are you getting that GRRM has an "original plan?" He has had to chop up books, delay delay delay, and rewrite things time and time again, by his own admission. Doesn't seem like he has some grand master plan. A bit on his writing process is here: http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1I'm not even assuming that this theory is "correct," and if I had to put money on it, I do think Ned will be Jon's real father after all. You might want to do some research on the author and how he works before you start calling people "idiotic." You sort of look that way right now. I love that argument "DO YOU KNOW THE BOOKS AREN'T REAL???". Because that is like the most passive aggressive question you can ask anyone while looking so lofty and intelligent. Do you think you're a better person with that incredibly inane rhetorical question? Does that validate everything you've said? Please at least everything I've said is related and not straw-man Now I don't know what writing world you're in, maybe the cheap low class Hollywood one? Or maybe something reminiscent of Twilight. BTW that was me being passive aggressive! Aren't I smart? Anyway, my point is that aSoIaF is Gurm's magnum opus, something he's been working on for around two decades now and can likely come close to a third. In this time he has gained an immense following and now he's one of the most well known writers in the world. Now with that in mind, pray tell with your vastly more logical understanding what real writer with integrity will sacrifice decades of build-up just for a "suprise" that will only "surprise" his hard-core fans? Casual readers won't get it and it won't surprise them, they already think Ned + X = Jon, it won't surprise tv show viewers either because there's no R+L=J in there either. The only people that it'll get are the people that spend many hours on the internet, which as other people have pointed out is a lot less than you think. So going with your view-point, if Ned really is the dad then it means that it will surprise a relatively small amount of readers because everyone else already thinks Ned is the dad. Wow, that's great writing right there. Superb stuff, Tolkien would be proud. Even ignoring that, how would you explain all the build-up and hints in the books? Are they all a coincidence and are red herrings? What is the promise that Ned tarnished his honor for? But silly me, who cares about hints and foreshadowing? That is meaningless, asoiaf doesn't have any foreshadowing ever and it doesn't need it! And so what if it does? That doesn't compare to a surprise! PS. You completely misunderstood his writing process, what he has done is make the story longer. He hasn't said that he's changed major story events, the closest is the 5-year time-skip however what happened during then was what mainly happen in Feast and Dance and likely some of Winds Yeah, you're just kind of angry. I didn't even really read most of what you said b/c I saw a lot of raging. I'm just going to ignore you at this point and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the story would be better if Ned is Jon's father. That is all I can really say at this point. But you can go on with the raging and name calling. It makes you look cool.
I think Rheagar being Jon's father would be a reveal as cool as Darth Vadar being Luke's father.
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I haven't been following the scene for a year or so, are there any news/updates regarding the 6th book?
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A sample chapter from book 6 was released a while ago, and recently I think there were a few other miscellaneous things that were released as well which just add more background info. Other than that there hasn't been much new.
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I'm sorry, the notion that GRRM will change HIS story based on a THEORY that a MINORITY of fans have is just silly.
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On January 02 2013 14:05 hooahah wrote:
I haven't been following the scene for a year or so, are there any news/updates regarding the 6th book?
I can't find the links right now, but i believe to remember that GRRM has stated to have written around ~400 pages, which would mean around 25-33% of what the book will probably contain. Personally i feel like autumn of 2014 might be possible if he's not to busy with other projects or hanging around.
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On January 02 2013 14:46 TigerKarl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 14:05 hooahah wrote:
I haven't been following the scene for a year or so, are there any news/updates regarding the 6th book? I can't find the links right now, but i believe to remember that GRRM has stated to have written around ~400 pages, which would mean around 25-33% of what the book will probably contain. Personally i feel like autumn of 2014 might be possible if he's not to busy with other projects or hanging around.
Keep in mind around 200 pages were originally meant to be in Dance but were cut out due to size reasons. Likely he's written around 200 new pages instead
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EPT
