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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On November 09 2012 11:13 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 10:52 Flik wrote:
Nobody thinks that hes going to become a warrior of the 7 (what are they called Crystal Knights or something) and come back and fight Franken Gregor? It would be sweet but Im not sure if it'll happen either. I think Jaime might take him down. I think they're called the warrior's sons. I doubt the hound will return, it wouldn't make sense as no one knows he's alive so no one would be able to find him. Also most readers have probably assumed he's dead and there's been no mention of him for a long time.
Right because GRRM would never make it seem as if someone was dead and then we find out they're alive.....>_<
*cough* Davos *cough*
EDIT: I'll add a pretty good pattern that one of my friends found. If GRRM "kills" someone off in the middle of a chapter then they're dead. However if he has them dying on the last page of the chapter they're not actually dead. So case in point. The Red Wedding. Robb is killed near the end of the chapter but not the last page. The chapter ends with Cat getting her throat cut. Few chapters later, Zombie Cat! This is also why I am pretty sure Jon is alive. He's stabbed in the last page of the chapter not the middle of it. That plus the warg references in the prologue.
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I still want to see the showdown between the two presumably dead brothers.
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On November 09 2012 11:18 Xinder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 11:13 MajuGarzett wrote:On November 09 2012 10:52 Flik wrote:
Nobody thinks that hes going to become a warrior of the 7 (what are they called Crystal Knights or something) and come back and fight Franken Gregor? It would be sweet but Im not sure if it'll happen either. I think Jaime might take him down. I think they're called the warrior's sons. I doubt the hound will return, it wouldn't make sense as no one knows he's alive so no one would be able to find him. Also most readers have probably assumed he's dead and there's been no mention of him for a long time. Right because GRRM would never make it seem as if someone was dead and then we find out they're alive.....>_< *cough* Davos *cough* EDIT: I'll add a pretty good pattern that one of my friends found. If GRRM "kills" someone off in the middle of a chapter then they're dead. However if he has them dying on the last page of the chapter they're not actually dead. So case in point. The Red Wedding. Robb is killed near the end of the chapter but not the last page. The chapter ends with Cat getting her throat cut. Few chapters later, Zombie Cat! This is also why I am pretty sure Jon is alive. He's stabbed in the last page of the chapter not the middle of it. That plus the warg references in the prologue.
Sandor is left dying on a roadside and hasn't been important since then as far as I can remember and if we take it to be true that he's become a gravedigger it would be ridiculous for someone to find him and bring him back to fight Gregor. He might be alive, I just find it unlikely he'll be relevant again.
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The pattern is easier to state as a matter of if the character was unambiguously killed and some POV saw the person dead then they are of course dead, but otherwise they are either not dead or at least not entirely removed. The only violations have been in the prologues and maybe Viserys, depending on how you want to call "seeing the person dead". If it is a matter of the death being at the end of a chapter then Tywin, Viserys, Ygritte, Lysa and probably close enough for Oberyn are all violations.
Most relevant though is to look at the known false positives of Cat, Brienne, Theon, Tyrion, Bran, and Jaime who have all had similar to Jon "wait, is he dying/did he just die?" moments right at the end of a chapter and obviously did not die. The two common factors are 1. being at the very end of a chapter with the last words leaving it in the "did he just die" hanging state and 2. the character who is suspected of being dead is the PoV.
I wonder if there are any established odds on Jon's status. Surely there are a few bold risk takers who would put money on him being gone.
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On November 09 2012 12:22 Irrelevant Label wrote:
The pattern is easier to state as a matter of if the character was unambiguously killed and some POV saw the person dead then they are of course dead, but otherwise they are either not dead or at least not entirely removed. The only violations have been in the prologues and maybe Viserys, depending on how you want to call "seeing the person dead". If it is a matter of the death being at the end of a chapter then Tywin, Viserys, Ygritte, Lysa and probably close enough for Oberyn are all violations.
Most relevant though is to look at the known false positives of Cat, Brienne, Theon, Tyrion, Bran, and Jaime who have all had similar to Jon "wait, is he dying/did he just die?" moments right at the end of a chapter and obviously did not die. The two common factors are 1. being at the very end of a chapter with the last words leaving it in the "did he just die" hanging state and 2. the character who is suspected of being dead is the PoV.
I wonder if there are any established odds on Jon's status. Surely there are a few bold risk takers who would put money on him being gone.
I may have misheard my friend. Your analysis sounds more accurate. Also I don't know that anyone would put money on Jon being dead but it'd be funny to see Vegas put odds on it lol.
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On November 09 2012 12:22 Irrelevant Label wrote:
The pattern is easier to state as a matter of if the character was unambiguously killed and some POV saw the person dead then they are of course dead, but otherwise they are either not dead or at least not entirely removed. The only violations have been in the prologues and maybe Viserys, depending on how you want to call "seeing the person dead". If it is a matter of the death being at the end of a chapter then Tywin, Viserys, Ygritte, Lysa and probably close enough for Oberyn are all violations.
Most relevant though is to look at the known false positives of Cat, Brienne, Theon, Tyrion, Bran, and Jaime who have all had similar to Jon "wait, is he dying/did he just die?" moments right at the end of a chapter and obviously did not die. The two common factors are 1. being at the very end of a chapter with the last words leaving it in the "did he just die" hanging state and 2. the character who is suspected of being dead is the PoV.
I wonder if there are any established odds on Jon's status. Surely there are a few bold risk takers who would put money on him being gone.
Mainly people that don't believe/don't know about R+L=J
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ARRRGGHHH!!! The red wedding. Just as painful reading it the second time.
At least it was interesting to see all the minor actions foretelling the event, since I knew it was coming this time.
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On November 13 2012 10:44 itkovian wrote:
ARRRGGHHH!!! The red wedding. Just as painful reading it the second time.
At least it was interesting to see all the minor actions foretelling the event, since I knew it was coming this time.
Major red wedding spoiler, don't click this if you don't wanna be spoiled.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, the craziest part for me reading it the second time was when you realize that Roose Bolton is the dude who actually kills Robb.
"Jaime Lannister sends his regards..."
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the best of the reread is when lord walder says "mayhaps"
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On November 13 2012 11:49 Kyuukyuu wrote:
the best of the reread is when lord walder says "mayhaps"
I think "He would have grown up to be a Frey" is better
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I meant with respect to the Red Wedding, on a re-read (I don't think most people caught the "mayhaps" on a first read). The "grown up to be a Frey" line was awesome enough the first time through.
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On November 13 2012 11:35 BallinWitStalin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:44 itkovian wrote:
ARRRGGHHH!!! The red wedding. Just as painful reading it the second time.
At least it was interesting to see all the minor actions foretelling the event, since I knew it was coming this time. Major red wedding spoiler, don't click this if you don't wanna be spoiled. + Show Spoiler +Yeah, the craziest part for me reading it the second time was when you realize that Roose Bolton is the dude who actually kills Robb.
"Jaime Lannister sends his regards..."
Really? I never thought of that.. Anyone could've said that, couldn't they? Everyone knew that the Lannisters were going to have Robb killed, except for Robb.
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Jaime specifically told Bolton when he left Harrenhal, "give my regards to Robb Stark" (not exactly the quote, he was responding to Bolton about giving the latter's regards to Tywin or something like that >.<)
Anyway it was exactly what Jaime told him to say, and he was wearing his pink cloak when he did the deed. It was Bolton.
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Roose is a magnificant bastard, I want him and Victarian to survive to the end.
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On November 09 2012 10:52 Flik wrote:
Nobody thinks that hes going to become a warrior of the 7 (what are they called Crystal Knights or something) and come back and fight Franken Gregor? It would be sweet but Im not sure if it'll happen either. I think Jaime might take him down.
That would be pretty difficult for Jaime considering he has only one hand.
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Is Ser Robert Strong from book 5 Gregor Clegane? It has to be.
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On November 15 2012 05:47 uncleheinz wrote:
Is Ser Robert Strong from book 5 Gregor Clegane? It has to be.
That's the common theory. It's also believed that Sandor is alive and is the novice that Brienne sees on the quiet isle. A lot of people are expecting a Sandor vs Gregor showdown as a trial by combat for Cercei vs the church.
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I just finished the 5th book and all I have to say
JOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I was teary teading his last chapter, I sooooo hope he is not truly gone 
4th was a huge disappointment, the whole Brienne story is pointless since you know where Sansa is. And after finishing the 5th book I realized that the whole Dorne intrigue has very little impact on the development of the story.
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On November 15 2012 06:15 Girondelle wrote:I just finished the 5th book and all I have to say JOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I was teary teading his last chapter, I sooooo hope he is not truly gone 4th was a huge disappointment, the whole Brienne story is pointless since you know where Sansa is. And after finishing the 5th book I realized that the whole Dorne intrigue has very little impact on the development of the story.
I think Dorne will have its part when one of the Targaryens land.
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On November 15 2012 06:15 Girondelle wrote:I just finished the 5th book and all I have to say JOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I was teary teading his last chapter, I sooooo hope he is not truly gone 4th was a huge disappointment, the whole Brienne story is pointless since you know where Sansa is. And after finishing the 5th book I realized that the whole Dorne intrigue has very little impact on the development of the story.
If you want to kinda possibly spoil yourself for future books then google "R+L=J"
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EPT
