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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath.
Well, I actually agree with you, and would be pissed if they made him some sort of sympathetic anti-villain, but let's play devil's advocate for a second.
He did horrible things, but overall it was with good ideas in mind, even killing the army guys was "for the good of Woodbury". He researched and messed with zombies to try and save his daughter, despite her being beyond help, because of fatherly love. Even torturing Glenn and Maggie was to protect the town and get supplies that they might need, in fact Merle is clearly more evil than him in this regard because he knew that the two prisoners were overall non-threats and still went along with it.
Psychotic? Undoubtedly. Villain? Yes. Mustache-twirling remorseless Chaotic Evil demonspawn? Not necessarily. His first assault on the prison was in response to them rescuing Glenn and Maggie, and in a way could be seen as defending Woodbury from invaders. The second attack was after his daughter was "killed" and he went flat out nuts.
Coming down off of that, having lost his town, his people, his daughter, and his reason for living, he's not necessarily just going to go around slaughtering everyone. If there was ever a time for someone in his position to be at their most vulnerable and open, it's probably now, when he has nothing left.
That said, I agree that it's only a matter of time before his true nature comes out and he snaps again.
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On November 19 2013 07:18 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:11 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath. Yeah, and the entire first half of season 3 he was in denial over the death of his daughter, which was what probably drove him to insanity. The entire point of this episode was to show how he had never gotten over her death UNTIL the new group basically explains to the audience the theme at play which is that he should get over his daughter's death and accept their daughter in her place (and possibly) overcome his insanity. It's supposed to be a new start through redemption in achieving what he failed to do in a "past lifetime." It almost comes straight from the TWD game itself. The parallels weren't lost on me, but in the game you play a far more ambiguous character than that. He was a good guy, who committed a crime of passion, not a murderous psychopath. And his daughter dying and turning into a zombie is a fucking weak excuse for his behaviour. How does sending out a hunting party for Michonne relate to his daughter? How about torturing Glenn with a zombie, and molesting Maggie?
Weak excuse? The death of your own child? It really sucks they didn't show how she died, but it's only implied dozens of times throughout the show that he couldn't save her and that he blames himself. What more powerful excuse do you want for someone to go insane? Should hitler have raped his daughter to death? I don't know how I can carry on this conversation if you can't understand how natural it is for certain people to be driven to do irrational things, even go into insanity if they're prone to it with the DEATH OF THEIR CHILD for fucks sake.
Aside from the fact he didn't torture Glenn with the zombie, Merle did, and that Im pretty sure he reprimanded Merle for it, I cant really explain why he does those things because he's clearly fucking insane throughout season 3.
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Are there really people out there not thinking that he's an insane psychopath? All this "I did it for the town" stuff was never the real reason. He did it for himself, because he liked to be king of the town, and thus did whatever it took to remain king. He'd probably see if he could get himself into godhood next and start sacrificing people if things would've gone his way.
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On November 19 2013 07:23 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath. Well, I actually agree with you, and would be pissed if they made him some sort of sympathetic anti-villain, but let's play devil's advocate for a second. He did horrible things, but overall it was with good ideas in mind, even killing the army guys was "for the good of Woodbury". He researched and messed with zombies to try and save his daughter, despite her being beyond help, because of fatherly love. Even torturing Glenn and Maggie was to protect the town and get supplies that they might need, in fact Merle is clearly more evil than him in this regard because he knew that the two prisoners were overall non-threats and still went along with it. Psychotic? Undoubtedly. Villain? Yes. Mustache-twirling remorseless Chaotic Evil demonspawn? Not necessarily. His first assault on the prison was in response to them rescuing Glenn and Maggie, and in a way could be seen as defending Woodbury from invaders. The second attack was after his daughter was "killed" and he went flat out nuts. Coming down off of that, having lost his town, his people, his daughter, and his reason for living, he's not necessarily just going to go around slaughtering everyone. If there was ever a time for someone in his position to be at their most vulnerable and open, it's probably now, when he has nothing left. That said, I agree that it's only a matter of time before his true nature comes out and he snaps again.
Yeah, that's ok. And honestly that's the way I think it's headed: the foreshadowing of him reuniting with his lieutenant seems to indicate that the woodbury time is coming back.
I was arguing more with people who seem to think that it's an ok plot twist to have him "healed" from the craziness and redeem himself. Nah, he can be a normal human being (even Hannibal is portrayed like that, and he's probably the archetypical psychopath in tv/movie world). Showing what makes him tick is fine, and I didn't think the episode was bad (not the best one this season, but a decent one, and a breath of fresh air).
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On November 19 2013 07:28 Conti wrote:
Are there really people out there not thinking that he's an insane psychopath? All this "I did it for the town" stuff was never the real reason. He did it for himself, because he liked to be king of the town, and thus did whatever it took to remain king. He'd probably see if he could get himself into godhood next and start sacrificing people if things would've gone his way.
Well, sure, there's obviously a measure of narcissism in him. A large measure. But in that power-mad frame of mind, as is often the trope with other characters like him, he thinks that his actions are the right thing to do. In his mind, "what is best for me" and "for the good of the town" are the same thing, and he was charismatic enough to convince everyone else of it as well.
Losing that, he's just some dude who realized how badly he fucked up and it's up to him whether to move on or to go back to the way he was.
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On November 19 2013 07:23 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:18 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 07:11 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath. Yeah, and the entire first half of season 3 he was in denial over the death of his daughter, which was what probably drove him to insanity. The entire point of this episode was to show how he had never gotten over her death UNTIL the new group basically explains to the audience the theme at play which is that he should get over his daughter's death and accept their daughter in her place (and possibly) overcome his insanity. It's supposed to be a new start through redemption in achieving what he failed to do in a "past lifetime." It almost comes straight from the TWD game itself. The parallels weren't lost on me, but in the game you play a far more ambiguous character than that. He was a good guy, who committed a crime of passion, not a murderous psychopath. And his daughter dying and turning into a zombie is a fucking weak excuse for his behaviour. How does sending out a hunting party for Michonne relate to his daughter? How about torturing Glenn with a zombie, and molesting Maggie? Weak excuse? The death of your own child? It really sucks they didn't show how she died, but it's only implied dozens of times throughout the show that he couldn't save her and that he blames himself. What more powerful excuse do you want for someone to go insane? Should hitler have raped his daughter to death? I don't know how I can carry on this conversation if you can't understand how natural it is for certain people to be driven to do irrational things, even go into insanity if they're prone to it with the DEATH OF THEIR CHILD for fucks sake. Aside from the fact he didn't torture Glenn with the zombie, Merle did, and that Im pretty sure he reprimanded Merle for it, I cant really explain why he does those things because he's clearly fucking insane throughout season 3.
Fine. Name me ONE example from real life where someone's child dying caused them to become a murderous psychopath, without them already being seriously unstable beforehand. If you can do that, I'll concede the point.
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On November 19 2013 07:34 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:23 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:18 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 07:11 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath. Yeah, and the entire first half of season 3 he was in denial over the death of his daughter, which was what probably drove him to insanity. The entire point of this episode was to show how he had never gotten over her death UNTIL the new group basically explains to the audience the theme at play which is that he should get over his daughter's death and accept their daughter in her place (and possibly) overcome his insanity. It's supposed to be a new start through redemption in achieving what he failed to do in a "past lifetime." It almost comes straight from the TWD game itself. The parallels weren't lost on me, but in the game you play a far more ambiguous character than that. He was a good guy, who committed a crime of passion, not a murderous psychopath. And his daughter dying and turning into a zombie is a fucking weak excuse for his behaviour. How does sending out a hunting party for Michonne relate to his daughter? How about torturing Glenn with a zombie, and molesting Maggie? Weak excuse? The death of your own child? It really sucks they didn't show how she died, but it's only implied dozens of times throughout the show that he couldn't save her and that he blames himself. What more powerful excuse do you want for someone to go insane? Should hitler have raped his daughter to death? I don't know how I can carry on this conversation if you can't understand how natural it is for certain people to be driven to do irrational things, even go into insanity if they're prone to it with the DEATH OF THEIR CHILD for fucks sake. Aside from the fact he didn't torture Glenn with the zombie, Merle did, and that Im pretty sure he reprimanded Merle for it, I cant really explain why he does those things because he's clearly fucking insane throughout season 3. Fine. Name me ONE example from real life where someone's child dying caused them to become a murderous psychopath, without them already being seriously unstable beforehand. If you can do that, I'll concede the point.
He was obviously unhinged beforehand, but none of his actions were "evil for the sake of being evil". Everything was for the betterment of Woodbury or to protect his own secrets. He wasn't like, seeking out babies and eating them alive or anything, he was just ruthless. Take away the things that he has to be ruthless to control/protect (depending on interpretation), and there's no reason for him to be as monstrous.
In light of last night's episode, nothing would have been gained by him butchering those people or leaving them to die, so he made a decision based off another part of his psyche.
I personally would rather have the psychotic, evil Governor from the comics, but if this is the way they're going with his character they're not doing a horrible job of it.
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On November 19 2013 07:34 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:23 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:18 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 07:11 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath. Yeah, and the entire first half of season 3 he was in denial over the death of his daughter, which was what probably drove him to insanity. The entire point of this episode was to show how he had never gotten over her death UNTIL the new group basically explains to the audience the theme at play which is that he should get over his daughter's death and accept their daughter in her place (and possibly) overcome his insanity. It's supposed to be a new start through redemption in achieving what he failed to do in a "past lifetime." It almost comes straight from the TWD game itself. The parallels weren't lost on me, but in the game you play a far more ambiguous character than that. He was a good guy, who committed a crime of passion, not a murderous psychopath. And his daughter dying and turning into a zombie is a fucking weak excuse for his behaviour. How does sending out a hunting party for Michonne relate to his daughter? How about torturing Glenn with a zombie, and molesting Maggie? Weak excuse? The death of your own child? It really sucks they didn't show how she died, but it's only implied dozens of times throughout the show that he couldn't save her and that he blames himself. What more powerful excuse do you want for someone to go insane? Should hitler have raped his daughter to death? I don't know how I can carry on this conversation if you can't understand how natural it is for certain people to be driven to do irrational things, even go into insanity if they're prone to it with the DEATH OF THEIR CHILD for fucks sake. Aside from the fact he didn't torture Glenn with the zombie, Merle did, and that Im pretty sure he reprimanded Merle for it, I cant really explain why he does those things because he's clearly fucking insane throughout season 3. Fine. Name me ONE example from real life where someone's child dying caused them to become a murderous psychopath, without them already being seriously unstable beforehand. If you can do that, I'll concede the point.
Name me one example from real life of a zombie apocalypse where someone has the ability to systematically act out their insanity without the repression of societal order...
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On November 19 2013 07:40 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:34 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 07:23 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:18 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 07:11 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath. Yeah, and the entire first half of season 3 he was in denial over the death of his daughter, which was what probably drove him to insanity. The entire point of this episode was to show how he had never gotten over her death UNTIL the new group basically explains to the audience the theme at play which is that he should get over his daughter's death and accept their daughter in her place (and possibly) overcome his insanity. It's supposed to be a new start through redemption in achieving what he failed to do in a "past lifetime." It almost comes straight from the TWD game itself. The parallels weren't lost on me, but in the game you play a far more ambiguous character than that. He was a good guy, who committed a crime of passion, not a murderous psychopath. And his daughter dying and turning into a zombie is a fucking weak excuse for his behaviour. How does sending out a hunting party for Michonne relate to his daughter? How about torturing Glenn with a zombie, and molesting Maggie? Weak excuse? The death of your own child? It really sucks they didn't show how she died, but it's only implied dozens of times throughout the show that he couldn't save her and that he blames himself. What more powerful excuse do you want for someone to go insane? Should hitler have raped his daughter to death? I don't know how I can carry on this conversation if you can't understand how natural it is for certain people to be driven to do irrational things, even go into insanity if they're prone to it with the DEATH OF THEIR CHILD for fucks sake. Aside from the fact he didn't torture Glenn with the zombie, Merle did, and that Im pretty sure he reprimanded Merle for it, I cant really explain why he does those things because he's clearly fucking insane throughout season 3. Fine. Name me ONE example from real life where someone's child dying caused them to become a murderous psychopath, without them already being seriously unstable beforehand. If you can do that, I'll concede the point. Name me one example from real life of a zombie apocalypse where someone has the ability to systematically act out their insanity without the repression of societal order...
I'll go there: Adolph Hitler.
Also any serial killer works. No need for a zombie apocalypse for someone to be able to systematically act out their insanity.
E: oh, and nice deflection, by the way. I almost missed that you are utterly failing to address the main point, which is that the governor being healed and no longer being a psychopath wackjob would be atrocious writing. Note: I don't think they're heading that way and I trust he'll derail again soon enough.
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I think the governor is just another Walter White (though vastly inferior in character :p). It was mentioned that he was dissatisfied with his life prior to the outbreak, namely by being bossed around by his employer. Then the outbreak happens, and he eventually finds himself if a position opposite to his pre-outbreak life.
Now, I think part of it was that he experienced true tragedy in losing his daughter, and the other half is that the demon was there all along. The zombie apocalypse has just given him an opportunity to let it out. I don't see it as a surprise that the guy is capable of returning to some of his noble qualities now that he's been stripped of his power. What's interesting to see is if he returns to his old ways if he somehow rebuilds himself, what does it mean that he's standing outside Rick's prison...hmm.
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On November 19 2013 07:32 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:28 Conti wrote:
Are there really people out there not thinking that he's an insane psychopath? All this "I did it for the town" stuff was never the real reason. He did it for himself, because he liked to be king of the town, and thus did whatever it took to remain king. He'd probably see if he could get himself into godhood next and start sacrificing people if things would've gone his way. Well, sure, there's obviously a measure of narcissism in him. A large measure. But in that power-mad frame of mind, as is often the trope with other characters like him, he thinks that his actions are the right thing to do. In his mind, "what is best for me" and "for the good of the town" are the same thing, and he was charismatic enough to convince everyone else of it as well. Losing that, he's just some dude who realized how badly he fucked up and it's up to him whether to move on or to go back to the way he was.
He thinks his actions are the right thing, yes. But the "right thing" in this case is "make sure I have as much power as possible", not "keep the town safe". That the two were the same was just incidental, not intentional. And, admittedly, in that sense he is not a psychopath (like they usually aren't in these shows), as a psychopath knows that what he's doing is wrong, and does it anyways.
Anyhow, I really hope they're not going down that redemption path. Nothing will ever make me like that character, especially not with writing as mediocre as what we get currently. I fear that he'll pretend to repent and be all harmless and helpless while trying to join Rick's group, Rick's sad puppy face will let him in, drama ensues, he will prove himself somehow so people trust him a little, and then we'll spend the rest of the season "finding out" that he's been evil all along and he'll be finally killed off.
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On November 19 2013 07:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 07:40 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:34 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 07:23 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:18 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 07:11 rd wrote:On November 19 2013 07:08 Acrofales wrote:On November 19 2013 05:28 stratmatt wrote:
Goddamn the things people will criticize this show for lol....
Last week I was upset because the entire episode relied on people doing stupid things that they should know better by now not to do and people tell me im dumb and should just stop watching.
This week we finally have a refreshing episode that gives us a break from the goddamn prison and people completely miss the point....
Yeah the governor is a huge asshole crazy person but who the fuck isnt at some point in this show's history? The entire show is about the social and psychological challenges that the humans face in light of their new environment / society and the ways in which they change / deal with them. We have seen numerous people go from good guys to bad guys and back through the series so far. We saw that each and every person is a human being underneath the multiple layers their current personalities are now made up of.
The governor is no longer the governor, he has nothing, and nobody. His power has been reduced to nothing and he has found a small group of people who he sees as in need of his assistance. So what if he killed a bunch of people in a crazy rage? That doesnt mean he will kill everybody he sees! Do you people know how to read(or watch) between the lines at all? He burned the picture of his dead family in this episode because he has finally moved on from that tragedy, something that he hadnt let go of up until this point, and something that every living human must go through. Now he has found a replacment for what he has lost and is possibly seeing it as a way towards redemption.
Finally a real episode with some real character development and people wanna go back to the clownhouse where people doing dumb shit daily is the only means of plot progression. In his crazy rage he murdered 30 people. Before then, he had murdered people in cold blood, and stuck their heads in jars on a shelf... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Seriously, it seems like you conveniently forgot the entire first half of season 3 in order to make the governor just some guy who made a bad decision and is now down on his luck. He is a fucking wackjob psychopath. Yeah, and the entire first half of season 3 he was in denial over the death of his daughter, which was what probably drove him to insanity. The entire point of this episode was to show how he had never gotten over her death UNTIL the new group basically explains to the audience the theme at play which is that he should get over his daughter's death and accept their daughter in her place (and possibly) overcome his insanity. It's supposed to be a new start through redemption in achieving what he failed to do in a "past lifetime." It almost comes straight from the TWD game itself. The parallels weren't lost on me, but in the game you play a far more ambiguous character than that. He was a good guy, who committed a crime of passion, not a murderous psychopath. And his daughter dying and turning into a zombie is a fucking weak excuse for his behaviour. How does sending out a hunting party for Michonne relate to his daughter? How about torturing Glenn with a zombie, and molesting Maggie? Weak excuse? The death of your own child? It really sucks they didn't show how she died, but it's only implied dozens of times throughout the show that he couldn't save her and that he blames himself. What more powerful excuse do you want for someone to go insane? Should hitler have raped his daughter to death? I don't know how I can carry on this conversation if you can't understand how natural it is for certain people to be driven to do irrational things, even go into insanity if they're prone to it with the DEATH OF THEIR CHILD for fucks sake. Aside from the fact he didn't torture Glenn with the zombie, Merle did, and that Im pretty sure he reprimanded Merle for it, I cant really explain why he does those things because he's clearly fucking insane throughout season 3. Fine. Name me ONE example from real life where someone's child dying caused them to become a murderous psychopath, without them already being seriously unstable beforehand. If you can do that, I'll concede the point. Name me one example from real life of a zombie apocalypse where someone has the ability to systematically act out their insanity without the repression of societal order... I'll go there: Adolph Hitler. Also any serial killer works. No need for a zombie apocalypse for someone to be able to systematically act out their insanity. E: oh, and nice deflection, by the way. I almost missed that you are utterly failing to address the main point, which is that the governor being healed and no longer being a psychopath wackjob would be atrocious writing. Note: I don't think they're heading that way and I trust he'll derail again soon enough.
I never said he wasn't a psychopath wtf, I said that the little girl is filling the hole his deceased daughter left which caused him to become insane, i.e. he's temporarily not so insane while the new "daughter" is around. If they wanna derail the governor and make him psychotic again, they'll probably just kill her off. But at this point which would lead to a more interesting story? Cause it'd just be season 3 repeated.
E: Deflection? I never said he was healed. You're not even reading what I'm telling you.
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the more important thing is, that the lily girl looks like Maggie goddamn!
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On November 19 2013 11:19 Killmouse wrote:
the more important thing is, that the lily girl looks like Maggie goddamn!
Haha, I thought I was the only one who thought that. Thank god I'm not crazy!
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My prediction for Philip Blake is that he loses his new family, takes control of Caesar's group, and then becomes The Governor again, mirroring his story before the Woodbury chapter of his life. You know, because this show loves cliches so much.
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My guess is that he's moved on from Rick's group. He was just standing outside the prison to contemplate his loss. Michonne, however, has not and will continue to hunt the governor eventually finding him and reigniting their old conflict. Basically, first blood will come from Rick's end.
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You also have to consider that there are no good or bad characters here. they are all 'gray'. they are simply trying to do survive in their own ways.
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On November 19 2013 13:00 LoLAdriankat wrote:
My prediction for Philip Blake is that he loses his new family, takes control of Caesar's group, and then becomes The Governor again, mirroring his story before the Woodbury chapter of his life. You know, because this show loves cliches so much.
It's Brian mate.
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lol i just love the people going to this thread and saying nonsense like " I stopped watching when.." well that was very useful. I mean really? if you stopped watching why are you still going to this thread and complaining the show is bad and you wont watch anymore then go watch it again and complain more? wow these guys are really works of art.
anyway, I like how the whole episode made the story fresh and made us think guvna is not all that bad. He is just a perfectionist and wants power back in woodbury, turned mad because of the disease and the fact he cant turn his daughter back or cant have his family back (the whole point of the experiments they are working - haters wont know these because they dont watch the entire show). Now he is mad with the group and particularly mishone. The latino henchman wasnot totally bad as they have their moments shared by daryl that they can be 2 good groups that I am hoping that would battle a more bigger problem or maybe guvna just wants sweet revenge after the new "family" (ladies) die because of being inexperienced with survival outside.
Seeing that pit though gave me an idea, why didnt rick and the gang just made a moat around the prison and it would solve all their problems - ( but it would make the whole franchise boring  or a challenge to the writers)
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There is no way that the gov ends up on good terms with Rick. Even if they could stop Michone from taking his head off, Daryl won't forgive him for killing Merle.
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EPT
