Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book.
On February 20 2013 02:22 Gentso wrote: Sorry for not reading any walls of text, as this probably pertains to many conversions in here... but just wanted to throw my random opinion here.
Although much more entertaining than the second season, my main problem with the show remains. I would love if the show had the zombies as the main conflict, and not people drama. It's like lately the zombies are hardly an issue anymore, and all of the coolest scenes for me have been close encounters in zombie survival.
It's a character drama show, not a zombie show.
Yeah it seems that's the way it's headed, but the first season was the opposite for the most part. Hiding in a tank and covering themselves in zombie guts followed by rain was really cool. The constant change of locations, and deadly zombie attacks are sorely missed from me! I figure if there are enough people out there with the same opinion it could influence future episodes.
It's always been character drama. The zombies are just part of the environment and are there to move things along at specific points. The show, game, and comic are all the same in this way.
Rick's behavior doesn't make any sense. I know it's hard to portray something like this realistically, and it's acted well, but honestly. Why is he one day screaming at her, telling her to go away, and the next day he's chasing after her (knowing full well she's just a hallucination) caressing her face and shit? Hiding inside his love grove waiting for her to return, what? She's a fucking hallucination, she'll be wherever you are.
Axel dead, unfortunate. He was actually the most developed minor character that they've killed off so far.
The gunfight, hilarious. Man stands in open field against an armed fortress unafraid of being hit due to the invisible force field he's erected, his aim so precise that he's able to snipe the most useless member of the opposing team, and then fire each subsequent shot exactly one inch from any living target. That'll scare em. But oh wait, we also brought a van full of zombies. Why did we do it? Because fuck reason, that's why.
Edit: But oh, the stuff between Darryl and Merle was pretty cool.
On February 20 2013 07:24 Cel.erity wrote: Why is he one day screaming at her, telling her to go away, and the next day he's chasing after her (knowing full well she's just a hallucination) caressing her face and shit? Hiding inside his love grove waiting for her to return, what? She's a fucking hallucination, she'll be wherever you are.
On February 20 2013 07:24 Cel.erity wrote: Why is he one day screaming at her, telling her to go away, and the next day he's chasing after her (knowing full well she's just a hallucination) caressing her face and shit? Hiding inside his love grove waiting for her to return, what? She's a fucking hallucination, she'll be wherever you are.
....because he's losing his mind.
That's why it's not accurate. People who are truly suffering from these kinds of symptoms either believe the vision is real, or they acknowledge that it's all in their head. Sometimes it drives them crazy, sometimes they learn to live with it. Rick is doing all of these things at once and it's not consistent or convincing.
On February 20 2013 07:24 Cel.erity wrote: Worst episode ever.
Rick's behavior doesn't make any sense. I know it's hard to portray something like this realistically, and it's acted well, but honestly. Why is he one day screaming at her, telling her to go away, and the next day he's chasing after her (knowing full well she's just a hallucination) caressing her face and shit? Hiding inside his love grove waiting for her to return, what? She's a fucking hallucination, she'll be wherever you are.
Axel dead, unfortunate. He was actually the most developed minor character that they've killed off so far.
The gunfight, hilarious. Man stands in open field against an armed fortress unafraid of being hit due to the invisible force field he's erected, his aim so precise that he's able to snipe the most useless member of the opposing team, and then fire each subsequent shot exactly one inch from any living target. That'll scare em. But oh wait, we also brought a van full of zombies. Why did we do it? Because fuck reason, that's why.
Edit: But oh, the stuff between Darryl and Merle was pretty cool.
Yeah that gunfight pissed me off, but a previous post made the point that it was part of the Governor's plan. My only fault with the show is that it lets you know who is going to die. The farmhouse is season 2 only killed off expendable characters and so far this season has only killed off obviously expendable characters. With the exception of T-Dog and Lori but the episode really revealed they were marked to die. With T-Dog suddenly getting a bunch of camera time and coming off as this knight in shining armor and Lori having all these tying up loose ends conversations.
On February 19 2013 08:37 LoLAdriankat wrote: He didn't retreat because he was scared. He wants them to suffer; to have the prison group have to deal with the emotional trauma of losing someone as well as losing a layer of defense.
He ended up on IGN's list of greatest comic book villains for a good reason.
Comic book Governor and TV version are two different guys.
But yeah, I imagine he retreated because he was there to mainly give a show of power and fuck with them. I doubt he planned to kill them all from the start.
On February 20 2013 07:24 Cel.erity wrote: Worst episode ever.
Rick's behavior doesn't make any sense. I know it's hard to portray something like this realistically, and it's acted well, but honestly. Why is he one day screaming at her, telling her to go away, and the next day he's chasing after her (knowing full well she's just a hallucination) caressing her face and shit? Hiding inside his love grove waiting for her to return, what? She's a fucking hallucination, she'll be wherever you are.
Axel dead, unfortunate. He was actually the most developed minor character that they've killed off so far.
The gunfight, hilarious. Man stands in open field against an armed fortress unafraid of being hit due to the invisible force field he's erected, his aim so precise that he's able to snipe the most useless member of the opposing team, and then fire each subsequent shot exactly one inch from any living target. That'll scare em. But oh wait, we also brought a van full of zombies. Why did we do it? Because fuck reason, that's why.
Edit: But oh, the stuff between Darryl and Merle was pretty cool.
Because at first he didn't want it to be true (who wants to admit they're crazy), but later he realized it was a nice break from the normal world he lives in. He also (as he stated), believes their is some reason she's there, so he's following her to discover it. It's someone dealing with their emotions, why are you expecting it to make logical sense lol.
Merl has got to be one of the most unlikeable characters ive ever come across. Every time I see him the disgust builds up inside of me.
Edit.
Haha. That gunfight was hilarious. Most of em just point and spray, and the fact that they use stupid walkers as an assault weapon The walkers should just be gunned down without any problem. And why the hell did Rick just leave his rifle? Like its that much of a hassle to carry it, its not like the walkers are fast.
Also blooper i noticed. When Daryl crush that zombies head with the car he gets blood on his hands, then the next scene he has clean hands.
Because at first he didn't want it to be true (who wants to admit they're crazy), but later he realized it was a nice break from the normal world he lives in.
can you point to a place within the past two episodes where it's obvious or even arguable that rick's view on his breakdown progresses in this manner? he's a sweating, delirious mess chasing after his dead wife all day long and leaving carl to fend for himself, I'm not sure where "nice break" comes into it. especially when the guys with carbines show up.
it's also not about categorical logic, it's about the show relating that confusion and illogic in a way that doesn't put people off (g-g-g-ghost lori!!), or at least having some sort of consistency. rick drops his sweaty, crazy act the second armed men arrive and starts being competent again, and it doesn't seem like we're done with rick's character digression yet because he still hasn't come back to the prison, so if it's the same deal next episode where he's mourning and lost it's going to go from being tonally inconsistent to just laughable. it would be a shame, since andrew lincoln is trying his hardest to sell this silliness and I was nearly on board by the end of last episode.
Because at first he didn't want it to be true (who wants to admit they're crazy), but later he realized it was a nice break from the normal world he lives in.
can you point to a place within the past two episodes where it's obvious or even arguable that rick's view on his breakdown progresses in this manner? he's a sweating, delirious mess chasing after his dead wife all day long and leaving carl to fend for himself, I'm not sure where "nice break" comes into it. especially when the guys with carbines show up.
it's also not about categorical logic, it's about the show relating that confusion and illogic in a way that doesn't put people off (g-g-g-ghost lori!!), or at least having some sort of consistency. rick drops his sweaty, crazy act the second armed men arrive and starts being competent again, and it doesn't seem like we're done with rick's character digression yet because he still hasn't come back to the prison, so if it's the same deal next episode where he's mourning and lost it's going to go from being tonally inconsistent to just laughable.
When he first sees Lori he panics and freaks out. Then he begins to chase her around. When he finally catches her, he touches her and gives a sigh of relief. He then follows her for the rest of the episode until the shootout.
It's rather obvious. Humans don't change emotions slowly. We go can from happy to sad in an instant depending on the conditions.
sigh, it's not obvious at all and I'm so bored of this "it's human!" copout, especially when this iteration doesn't even make sense and is a silly generalization. rick has been flip-flopping in terms of just how crazy the show wants him to be since the phone incident, it's not good writing and I would also contend it's not realistic. flipping a switch on character emotions with no setup makes no sense at the plot level, and on the level of basic realism I just refuse to believe that he's a raving lunatic until men with guns start shooting at him and then it's business as usual. what sort of message am I supposed to take from this - that violence is cathartic? yeah, I got that around the time I saw my hundredth zombie head explode TWD, thanks.
the only answer seems to be that I should just accept this show as proverbial sound and fury, because every time I engage people about whatever in the world this show is supposed to be doing, I get arguments that only make sense on the level of the script and not on any sort of metatextual or artistic level. even the most basic TV serials can at least pretend to have a theme; TWD is apparently all about being human, which is terribly facile because it justifies all manner of rationalizations because of the sheer vagueness of that moniker, but it's okay, because zombies.
edit: I pinned down what I don't like about your post: there's a huge difference between emotions, which are short-term manifestations of feeling that, taken longitudinally, form a mood or a disposition, and an actual disposition or a mental state. rick's entire disposition (or, more succinctly, his character) has been constantly fluctuating from episode to episode this season: when he lost lori, he was a nutbar, then he was fine for a long period of time and then suddenly he wasn't after the midseason break. it goes beyond the emotions exhibited and is to the point that everyman leader rick and crazy rick are two entirely different people, because crazy rick got almost no setup whatsoever and the setup he did get was undermined by the plot needing everyman leader rick to come back out and keep the story going.
On February 19 2013 11:23 Kishin2 wrote: This season is sooo much better than season 2. It's a completely different show now.
I agree with this. Even tho the show still has its funky moments its still MUCH more enjoyable than previous seasons.
Agreed. Imagine the equivalent episode from last season on the farm. Literally nothing happened besides say a well-zombie, mud-zombie or cock-block zombie. This is so much better though the gun fight felt more like a paintball skirmish. I don't know why they ran away just when the zombies were forcing people out of cover. I guess the governor's crazy plan was to use gunfire to attract even more zombies through the broken front gate and let sheer numbers do his work for him. I also have a suspicion the gas mask driver might be Andrea proving herself (knew where the governor was headed, caught up and had to pick a side)
On February 19 2013 11:23 Kishin2 wrote: This season is sooo much better than season 2. It's a completely different show now.
I agree with this. Even tho the show still has its funky moments its still MUCH more enjoyable than previous seasons.
Agreed. Imagine the equivalent episode from last season on the farm. Literally nothing happened besides say a well-zombie, mud-zombie or cock-block zombie. This is so much better though the gun fight felt more like a paintball skirmish. I don't know why they ran away just when the zombies were forcing people out of cover. I guess the governor's crazy plan was to use gunfire to attract even more zombies through the broken front gate and let sheer numbers do his work for him. I also have a suspicion the gas mask driver might be Andrea proving herself (knew where the governor was headed, caught up and had to pick a side)
She chased after the governor not knowing where he went, having no clue where the prison was, in full riot gear, in a purpose built van filled with zombies. It might be Andrea but she would have to be know what was going on before she left the town.
I can't imagine a rational human being taking the van filled with zombies over another normal car to chase after the governor lol. But then again it's on The Walking Dead and they don't have a good track record of making logical choices.
On February 19 2013 11:23 Kishin2 wrote: This season is sooo much better than season 2. It's a completely different show now.
I agree with this. Even tho the show still has its funky moments its still MUCH more enjoyable than previous seasons.
Agreed. Imagine the equivalent episode from last season on the farm. Literally nothing happened besides say a well-zombie, mud-zombie or cock-block zombie. This is so much better though the gun fight felt more like a paintball skirmish. I don't know why they ran away just when the zombies were forcing people out of cover. I guess the governor's crazy plan was to use gunfire to attract even more zombies through the broken front gate and let sheer numbers do his work for him. I also have a suspicion the gas mask driver might be Andrea proving herself (knew where the governor was headed, caught up and had to pick a side)
She chased after the governor not knowing where he went, having no clue where the prison was, in full riot gear, in a purpose built van filled with zombies. It might be Andrea but she would have to be know what was going on before she left the town.
I can't imagine a rational human being taking the van filled with zombies over another normal car to chase after the governor lol. But then again it's on The Walking Dead and they don't have a good track record of making logical choices.
It's most likely that karen girl, she's jealous of Andrea and she does this cause she wants the governor's D
On February 20 2013 02:22 Gentso wrote: Sorry for not reading any walls of text, as this probably pertains to many conversions in here... but just wanted to throw my random opinion here.
Although much more entertaining than the second season, my main problem with the show remains. I would love if the show had the zombies as the main conflict, and not people drama. It's like lately the zombies are hardly an issue anymore, and all of the coolest scenes for me have been close encounters in zombie survival.
It's a character drama show, not a zombie show.
Yes - for better or worse, this. Two problems with constant zombie attacks and over the top darkness:
1) Constant zombie attacks get old. It has a niche appeal and there's not enough depth. As time goes by, people (even the most hardened zombie fans) will get numb to any fear or creeps that are generated ... and they eventually will tune out.
2) Character drama - on the other hand - never gets old (depending on how well its done), allows empathy with the characters (so you might care what happens to them), and so there is a chance to set people up for zombie attacks that, while more rare, can have more fear factor and impact.
Its a fine balance to walk. But this is the way they are doing it. Assuming you are a fan of this sort of thing to be begin with, depending on how well you think they are pulling that balance off is going to largely determine whether you like the show and will keep tuning in imo.
Personally I love the show and - with a few minor hiccups here and there - think they mainly get it right.
On February 20 2013 02:22 Gentso wrote: Sorry for not reading any walls of text, as this probably pertains to many conversions in here... but just wanted to throw my random opinion here.
Although much more entertaining than the second season, my main problem with the show remains. I would love if the show had the zombies as the main conflict, and not people drama. It's like lately the zombies are hardly an issue anymore, and all of the coolest scenes for me have been close encounters in zombie survival.
It's a character drama show, not a zombie show.
Yes - for better or worse, this. Two problems with constant zombie attacks and over the top darkness:
1) Constant zombie attacks get old. It has a niche appeal and there's not enough depth. As time goes by, people (even the most hardened zombie fans) will get numb to any fear or creeps that are generated ... and they eventually will tune out.
2) Character drama - on the other hand - never gets old (depending on how well its done), allows empathy with the characters (so you might care what happens to them), and so there is a chance to set people up for zombie attacks that, while more rare, can have more fear factor and impact.
Its a fine balance to walk. But this is the way they are doing it. Assuming you are a fan of this sort of thing to be begin with, depending on how well you think they are pulling that balance off is going to largely determine whether you like the show and will keep tuning in imo.
Personally I love the show and - with a few minor hiccups here and there - think they mainly get it right.
I agree with this but it just feels too safe. Zombies are not "that" scary because you know what they will do so you can plan accordingly. You can avoid them fairly easily by masking your scent, you can dispatch of them easily if you know they are there and your not overwhelmed etc etc.
People are much scarier because you can't predict what people will do. Someone might be a super nice guy and gladly join your group or they might just try to kill you the moment they see you.
It would have been interesting if they had left more roaming groups of survivors in the show to create drama with people fighting over the scraps of food and fuel left. Letting the dynamics of what extent to trust people get played out. People who play DayZ know about this. Zombies are not scary at all you can avoid them 99% of the time if you are careful. It's scary as hell to make contact with people though because a lot of the time people will just shoot you. The remaining people are good to you and are good to scavenge with for a while and then eventually part ways. The very small % of people who you trust to make and share a camp with are few and far in between. I have played with lot's of people who seem like good guys until you find any thing half decent when they pop you in the back of the head lol.
Because at first he didn't want it to be true (who wants to admit they're crazy), but later he realized it was a nice break from the normal world he lives in.
can you point to a place within the past two episodes where it's obvious or even arguable that rick's view on his breakdown progresses in this manner? he's a sweating, delirious mess chasing after his dead wife all day long and leaving carl to fend for himself, I'm not sure where "nice break" comes into it. especially when the guys with carbines show up.
it's also not about categorical logic, it's about the show relating that confusion and illogic in a way that doesn't put people off (g-g-g-ghost lori!!), or at least having some sort of consistency. rick drops his sweaty, crazy act the second armed men arrive and starts being competent again, and it doesn't seem like we're done with rick's character digression yet because he still hasn't come back to the prison, so if it's the same deal next episode where he's mourning and lost it's going to go from being tonally inconsistent to just laughable. it would be a shame, since andrew lincoln is trying his hardest to sell this silliness and I was nearly on board by the end of last episode.
Now you also have a masters degree in psychology? Crazy people are crazy and not sane by any means which doesn't mean that they cannot have clear moments at all. You can google and do research on it, but there are quiet a lot of cases documented where insane/crazy people do have clear minds in certain circumstances and situations. Take Rick for that matter, his situation of being calm and not insane is fighting / shooting. I don't see how this is laughable or completely unrealistic to anyone.
Not trying to make you look stupid as we have had our discussions and I can agree to lots of points you make, but that is as unreasonable as it gets.
EPT
The walkers should just be gunned down without any problem. And why the hell did Rick just leave his rifle? Like its that much of a hassle to carry it, its not like the walkers are fast.
