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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
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On October 22 2012 15:28 blug wrote:
The thing I've never understood is that when ever they kill a Zombie they aren't shit scared that they might get some of the Zombies blood in their eyes or perhaps an open wound they got earlier before. The person who produces the show obviously doesn't take that into consideration with his characters.
It's not them not taking it into consideration, it's that the premise never existed in this world.
You guys are using your whatever real world knowledge of zombies and applying it to the show. Sometimes it works, like how crossbows are good weapons to pick off zombies slowly, and sometimes it doesn't, like how zombies can now use tools. It's the director's own interpretation of zombies. Sometimes, it's really consistent with what's been produced, like Romero's zombies. And sometimes, it's like the comic and Kirkman's zombies. But it's all up to the director. It's his zombies now.
However, it's hard to say if they screwed it up big time with a shitty first two seasons, but that's what you accept. And the zombies here aren't even zombies, they're walkers. The concept of zombie doesn't exist, so stop treating it like you know how getting zombie blood in their eyes will affect them.
Please stop thinking about how you know so much more than the producers of the show about zombies, and just enjoy the premise and new take on zombie-land, even if it's lacking in acting potential.
+ Show Spoiler [book] +
Even though the audience is clearly not ready for some of the shit they went through in the comics, like torturing the governor, the shit with the governor's child, the ridiculously long time they spent in the prison arc with the lovers committing suicide and the dad killing the entire cafeteria full of zombies with his hands, I feel like they would add so much missing "wtf" to the series, and enough to relax the comic people. It's hard to watch knowing that the producers are so reluctant to put in the dark, dark, dark themes that made the comic what it was.
I think it was put very eloquently in the recent comics before shit hit the fan. Rick is the leader of their ragged troupe of the bad-ass military dude, Michonne, and Andrea. He has the respect of the entire community, not to mention being a leader, and he's missing his fucking hand. The guy can't imagine what shit Rick went through to be so bloody respected. At the current rate, I don't think we'll get that kind of scene or feeling from Rick, though you can clearly see he's very visibly affected by all the killing.
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United States13896 Posts
On October 22 2012 17:36 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 14:16 Chytilova wrote:On October 22 2012 13:52 Rkie wrote:
I don't mind the show, it is very entertaining. The characters are the biggest issue I have with it though. For me, Daryl is the only really good character. Lori is a believably accurate character as well as maybe Glenn, but the rest are bad imo. I liked Shane too until he started doing the whole "I'm better than everyone else" routine. As for other stuff, there are a lot of slow parts but the fighting scenes make up for those.
Plus, zombies are cool. Agreed. And yeah Daryl is by far the best character. Plus only thing better than zombies are zombies + crossbows. There's the answer to that image. Mother fucking Daryl. Best character all time in a zombie apocalypse setting.
Dunno if I'd go that far. Probably the best in the history of television, though to be frank there isn't much competition in TV. Television and film is probably a stretch, I'm not well-versed enough so say, but he is the best I've personally seen portrayed as far as I can recall. Going past TV and film and going into literature I'd say he isn't close. There are a number of characters just in the comic I enjoyed far far far far more than Daryl. Not to talk bad about Daryl but he hardly compares to Michonne from the comics, or Tyreese imo, or Rick. Andrea and Dale I enjoyed a lot more in the comics as well and maybe more than Daryl, though that's more questionable.
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On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:
- What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do.
eh, T is a minor character and he's fine at this point IMO.
comic stuff, dunno if it really needs to be spoilered, but doing it anyway for safety sake.
+ Show Spoiler +everyone seems pissed that T's not Tyreese, but that's shit, Daryl's been just fine as Rick's badass right hand man. I know it sucks that there aren't strong black characters in the show yet, but it's not like the Tyreese void is completely unfilled in the show.
On October 22 2012 17:41 krndandaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Did anyone watch the preview at the end of the next episode? Anyone know who those people are from the comic?
+ Show Spoiler +that's the governor and some of the folks from his town. I'm interested to see what they do with that arc because the graphic novel stuff for it is insanely raw and they just can't do it on TV unless we're less inhibited on TV than I think we are as a culture.
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On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 16:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote:On October 22 2012 16:30 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 14:39 Disengaged wrote:On October 20 2012 16:03 p4NDemik wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This is a very accurate analysis of this show, unfortunately. For me, that chart would only apply to me for about 3-4 episodes. Tonight wasn't one of them  Pretty much all of last season was like that for me, and a little of the end of the first season unfortunately =/ Things are looking up though with this episode. On October 22 2012 10:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
That was literally THE STUPIDEST thing I have ever witnessed a human ever do.
Like seriously? Performing mouth-to-mouth on a recently deceased in a zombie apocalypse...
What the fuck? Yup, Lori is still the dumbest brick on the block. Rick saying he doesn't think she's a bad mother = LOL. At least she can admit to herself she's a horrible mom even if Rick can't bring himself to say it. Yet another "are you fucking kidding me?" moment on TWD. On October 22 2012 12:17 pt wrote:
wow this episode was lacking. I disagree, I still have a lot of reservations about how they handled this episode (which was basically like 5-10 comic issues rolled up into 1 hr) but for the most part the fact that they condensed so much plot into one episode improved the show drastically. For the first time since early in season one I found myself being drawn into their adaptation rather than drawing away during long periods of horrible dialogue. They maximized the things this show actually can do right this episode and minimized the stuff they suck at (dialogue). If they continue on this route it will be a marked improvement over the previous season in my opinion, but if they decide to do that it will come at the cost of missing out on the true potential of the source material. It will be interesting to see if this episode will be the new norm or the outlier in this season. On your second point, the way I interpreted that scene was Rick giving her a hand on the shoulder out of pity but not empathy; almost as if he agreed with her. After the first two episodes it seems to me that Rick and even Carl(I guess he's having hormone/teenager issues, but Lori is a dumb ass) both hate Lori, but perhaps I was reading too much into the tone and intensity of that scene. Other thoughts: - I was expecting the scene with Maggie and Hershel on his deathbed to suck, but I was actually surprised it brought some real emotion. Props to Lauren Cohan for some pretty solid acting. - What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. Finally some comic stuff: + Show Spoiler [Comic comparison/spoilers] +First of all, it sucks that Axel has been turned into some sniveling crying wimp. I'm trying to think about the rationale of not having a more manly man play that role. I guess they didn't think it would be believable that Rick would have mercy on him if he actually had any kind of imposing stature? Since they didn't have any time to actually get acquainted there obviously was no time for trust to be built for any of them, and there still really isn't any trust, he only survived because Rick didn't see him as a threat. Also, not a single "you follow me?" all episode unless I missed something. I'm very disappointed.
I didn't really think about it until now but a lot of the pre-Governor prison drama wasn't really feasible, thus this speed-up in action and plot development. Mostly all of the issues with Tyreese and the friction between him and Rick. That took up a lot of comic-time and was out of the question unfortunately. I really do hope they get a new survivor in the group that can garner trust among the others and actually challenge Rick's alpha-dog role. Doesn't look like that will be happening until probably at least next season.
Initially I thought the one thing they could have actually done was still have the brutal murder of Hershel's other daughter though in place of the twins. They had to chose between that and having Hershel lose his leg, because if Hershel is out of commission or seriously weak he won't have much energy to grieve. I still prefer the comic version of initial cautious, but open-mindedness followed by betrayal and distrust, but maybe in the end they made the right choice. After all in the comics they hadn't had a really negative experience with other survivors yet before the prison. In the TV show they did last season with the shootout at the OK Corral. Rick is obviously already in a much darker place than he was at the same point in the comics. Probably the right choice within the context of the show, but again makes me pissed they fucked up last season so bad. Again, overall improvement, but I'm not sure if it's momentary or here to stay.
I couldn't disagree with you more on the Maggie-Hershel scene. I thought that was one of the worst scenes of the entire series and seemed ridiculously forced. Especially considering that everyone knew that Hershel HAD to survive to prove that amputation can prevent a turning after being bitten. That was the whole point of him getting bitten in the first place.
Comics:
+ Show Spoiler +I think the surviving black dude will possibly take Axels place (and essentially have a reverse of Tyreese/Axel---Daryl/Black Dude) and the mustachio guy (or a prisoner thought to be dead) will take the place of Mr. Tax Fraud. Which doesn't leave out the possibility of blondie dying. The writers seem to be afraid of (non painless vaporization) suicide, so there can be a few things happening here. Carol is killed in place of the twins, this erases her suicide scene and prevents a maggie attempted suicide, OR blondie is killed (the writers grow some balls) and Maggie attempts her suicide and Carol still carries out her own suicide, OR no one is killed, I'm completely wrong, White guy is Axel and Black Dude is just another token filler who dies off soon, and both Carol and Maggie don't attempt suicide.
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I've never read the comic so my opinion could very well be based in ignorance. But fucking Daryl. Every week 80% of why my sister and I watch every new episode is to see what Daryl does.
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United States13896 Posts
On October 22 2012 17:48 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:
- What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. eh, T is a minor character and he's fine at this point IMO. comic stuff, dunno if it really needs to be spoilered, but doing it anyway for safety sake. + Show Spoiler +everyone seems pissed that T's not Tyreese, but that's shit, Daryl's been just fine as Rick's badass right hand man. I know it sucks that there aren't strong black characters in the show yet, but it's not like the Tyreese void is completely unfilled in the show. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:41 krndandaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Did anyone watch the preview at the end of the next episode? Anyone know who those people are from the comic? + Show Spoiler +that's the governor and some of the folks from his town. I'm interested to see what they do with that arc because the graphic novel stuff for it is insanely raw and they just can't do it on TV unless we're less inhibited on TV than I think we are as a culture.
It sucks that minor characters are basically just taking up space though. There are plenty of other good dramas with larger casts that do a much better job of making even the minor characters feel like real people rather than token characters. Yeah, its probably pointless hoping for change on the T-front but can you blame me for hoping for improvement so long as they keep his character alive?
I agree Daryl has been great and he is my favorite character still, it just sucks that at this moment the only characters I like are 1. Daryl & 2. Rick and to a lesser extent 3. Glen & 4. Maggie. Andrea looked like she had hope towards the middle of last season but now she just seems to be defeated. Michonne amazingly still has hardly seen any screen time after 2 episodes, which I think is a missed opportunity to really get the audience connected to her off the bat (I certainly am not yet - I mean yeah the Katana is badass but we know nothing about her yet). Hershel was pretty bland and now is bland and hobbled. Carl is not very dynamic as a character yet. Carol seems to be improving but still isn't compelling. T is T. Lori is ... lol. And then Maggie's sister ... well I still can't remember what her name even is so yeah she sucks.
I want to like this show and I want to like these characters which is why I'm frustrated that I can only find a few of them interesting in the slightest.
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On October 22 2012 17:48 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:
- What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. eh, T is a minor character and he's fine at this point IMO. comic stuff, dunno if it really needs to be spoilered, but doing it anyway for safety sake. + Show Spoiler +everyone seems pissed that T's not Tyreese, but that's shit, Daryl's been just fine as Rick's badass right hand man. I know it sucks that there aren't strong black characters in the show yet, but it's not like the Tyreese void is completely unfilled in the show. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:41 krndandaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Did anyone watch the preview at the end of the next episode? Anyone know who those people are from the comic? + Show Spoiler +that's the governor and some of the folks from his town. I'm interested to see what they do with that arc because the graphic novel stuff for it is insanely raw and they just can't do it on TV unless we're less inhibited on TV than I think we are as a culture.
+ Show Spoiler +The only thing is Daryl doesn't beat a guy to death with his bare hands, then destroy the zombified person afterwards...with his bare hands. Then later on goes into a gym literally full of walkers and kills them all. Alone. With his bare hands. Without a scratch on him. Like those scenes alone made Tyreese just so badass that not having him in the show makes it all seem so lame in comparison lol. I do like the show but it's just "DARN YOU WHYYYY" (although obviously we all know the reasons being it's just way too dark and raw for television.) I do love Daryl though. He's definitely my favorite character, and is a decent substitute for Tyreese. I hope they develop Daryl into an even bigger badass as season 3 continues, and don't kill him off.
Basically the complaints about the show not being as dark for people who enjoyed the comic and now are watching the show stems from how many characters they changed or didn't include. By doing that they got rid of a lot of the darker things that would happen to said characters, or set it up differently so it just didn't have the same impact. Like when sophie died you're like "okay....well that's finally done." But when the twins Billy and Ben died it was like "wtf that kid is insane" and "man, Carol's becoming a killer." Like, it actually develops the story and characters a lot more, while keeping a dark feel to it. The whole Sophie plot which was half of season 2 was basically summed up into an "oh well" moment for most people. There was no real emotion for many because the writers didn't do enough to MAKE us give a shit about her.
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United States13896 Posts
On October 22 2012 17:53 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 16:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote:On October 22 2012 16:30 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 14:39 Disengaged wrote:On October 20 2012 16:03 p4NDemik wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This is a very accurate analysis of this show, unfortunately. For me, that chart would only apply to me for about 3-4 episodes. Tonight wasn't one of them Pretty much all of last season was like that for me, and a little of the end of the first season unfortunately =/ Things are looking up though with this episode. On October 22 2012 10:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
That was literally THE STUPIDEST thing I have ever witnessed a human ever do.
Like seriously? Performing mouth-to-mouth on a recently deceased in a zombie apocalypse...
What the fuck? Yup, Lori is still the dumbest brick on the block. Rick saying he doesn't think she's a bad mother = LOL. At least she can admit to herself she's a horrible mom even if Rick can't bring himself to say it. Yet another "are you fucking kidding me?" moment on TWD. On October 22 2012 12:17 pt wrote:
wow this episode was lacking. I disagree, I still have a lot of reservations about how they handled this episode (which was basically like 5-10 comic issues rolled up into 1 hr) but for the most part the fact that they condensed so much plot into one episode improved the show drastically. For the first time since early in season one I found myself being drawn into their adaptation rather than drawing away during long periods of horrible dialogue. They maximized the things this show actually can do right this episode and minimized the stuff they suck at (dialogue). If they continue on this route it will be a marked improvement over the previous season in my opinion, but if they decide to do that it will come at the cost of missing out on the true potential of the source material. It will be interesting to see if this episode will be the new norm or the outlier in this season. On your second point, the way I interpreted that scene was Rick giving her a hand on the shoulder out of pity but not empathy; almost as if he agreed with her. After the first two episodes it seems to me that Rick and even Carl(I guess he's having hormone/teenager issues, but Lori is a dumb ass) both hate Lori, but perhaps I was reading too much into the tone and intensity of that scene. Other thoughts: - I was expecting the scene with Maggie and Hershel on his deathbed to suck, but I was actually surprised it brought some real emotion. Props to Lauren Cohan for some pretty solid acting. - What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. Finally some comic stuff: + Show Spoiler [Comic comparison/spoilers] +First of all, it sucks that Axel has been turned into some sniveling crying wimp. I'm trying to think about the rationale of not having a more manly man play that role. I guess they didn't think it would be believable that Rick would have mercy on him if he actually had any kind of imposing stature? Since they didn't have any time to actually get acquainted there obviously was no time for trust to be built for any of them, and there still really isn't any trust, he only survived because Rick didn't see him as a threat. Also, not a single "you follow me?" all episode unless I missed something. I'm very disappointed.
I didn't really think about it until now but a lot of the pre-Governor prison drama wasn't really feasible, thus this speed-up in action and plot development. Mostly all of the issues with Tyreese and the friction between him and Rick. That took up a lot of comic-time and was out of the question unfortunately. I really do hope they get a new survivor in the group that can garner trust among the others and actually challenge Rick's alpha-dog role. Doesn't look like that will be happening until probably at least next season.
Initially I thought the one thing they could have actually done was still have the brutal murder of Hershel's other daughter though in place of the twins. They had to chose between that and having Hershel lose his leg, because if Hershel is out of commission or seriously weak he won't have much energy to grieve. I still prefer the comic version of initial cautious, but open-mindedness followed by betrayal and distrust, but maybe in the end they made the right choice. After all in the comics they hadn't had a really negative experience with other survivors yet before the prison. In the TV show they did last season with the shootout at the OK Corral. Rick is obviously already in a much darker place than he was at the same point in the comics. Probably the right choice within the context of the show, but again makes me pissed they fucked up last season so bad. Again, overall improvement, but I'm not sure if it's momentary or here to stay. I couldn't disagree with you more on the Maggie-Hershel scene. I thought that was one of the worst scenes of the entire series and seemed ridiculously forced. Especially considering that everyone knew that Hershel HAD to survive to prove that amputation can prevent a turning after being bitten. That was the whole point of him getting bitten in the first place. Comics: + Show Spoiler +I think the surviving black dude will possibly take Axels place (and essentially have a reverse of Tyreese/Axel---Daryl/Black Dude) and the mustachio guy (or a prisoner thought to be dead) will take the place of Mr. Tax Fraud. Which doesn't leave out the possibility of blondie dying. The writers seem to be afraid of (non painless vaporization) suicide, so there can be a few things happening here. Carol is killed in place of the twins, this erases her suicide scene and prevents a maggie attempted suicide, OR blondie is killed (the writers grow some balls) and Maggie attempts her suicide and Carol still carries out her own suicide, OR no one is killed, I'm completely wrong, White guy is Axel and Black Dude is just another token filler who dies off soon, and both Carol and Maggie don't attempt suicide.
Concerning the amputation, why do you think they had to have him survive there? Especially as someone who read the comics I'm surprised you didn't think there was even a chance of him actually dying. All the characters and the audience at this point understands that they are already infected with the zombie-virus and its just the other infections that actually kill you. That's why none of the characters questioned Rick hacking the leg off. So they all basically accepted it was the right decision regardless of whether Hershel lived or died. Thus Hershel could (and should have imo) died there and then. As of this moment the only reason he is alive is to have the god-awful stupid wanna-be shock-inducing moment during the CPR. Imo that was the horrible scene and the Maggie scene was great. They just should have let Hershel die.
+ Show Spoiler [comic] +Basically, if Allen can die in the comics at that point in time, why can't Hershel die at that point in time? Its manufactured plot yet again.
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United States13896 Posts
On October 22 2012 18:12 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:48 Mogwai wrote:On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:
- What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. eh, T is a minor character and he's fine at this point IMO. comic stuff, dunno if it really needs to be spoilered, but doing it anyway for safety sake. + Show Spoiler +everyone seems pissed that T's not Tyreese, but that's shit, Daryl's been just fine as Rick's badass right hand man. I know it sucks that there aren't strong black characters in the show yet, but it's not like the Tyreese void is completely unfilled in the show. On October 22 2012 17:41 krndandaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Did anyone watch the preview at the end of the next episode? Anyone know who those people are from the comic? + Show Spoiler +that's the governor and some of the folks from his town. I'm interested to see what they do with that arc because the graphic novel stuff for it is insanely raw and they just can't do it on TV unless we're less inhibited on TV than I think we are as a culture. + Show Spoiler +The only thing is Daryl doesn't beat a guy to death with his bare hands, then destroy the zombified person afterwards...with his bare hands. Then later on goes into a gym literally full of walkers and kills them all. Alone. With his bare hands. Without a scratch on him. Like those scenes alone made Tyreese just so badass that not having him in the show makes it all seem so lame in comparison lol. I do like the show but it's just "DARN YOU WHYYYY" (although obviously we all know the reasons being it's just way too dark and raw for television.) I do love Daryl though. He's definitely my favorite character, and is a decent substitute for Tyreese. I hope they develop Daryl into an even bigger badass as season 3 continues, and don't kill him off.
Basically the complaints about the show not being as dark for people who enjoyed the comic and now are watching the show stems from how many characters they changed or didn't include. By doing that they got rid of a lot of the darker things that would happen to said characters, or set it up differently so it just didn't have the same impact. Like when sophie died you're like "okay....well that's finally done." But when the twins Billy and Ben died it was like "wtf that kid is insane" and "man, Carol's becoming a killer." Like, it actually develops the story and characters a lot more, while keeping a dark feel to it. The whole Sophie plot which was half of season 2 was basically summed up into an "oh well" moment for most people. There was no real emotion for many because the writers didn't do enough to MAKE us give a shit about her.
Hey hey lets not sell Daryl short here in the comparison. I mean he did get thrown off his horse, down a ravine, and dislocate his arm, and STILL manage to kill a handful of walkers in hand-to-hand combat. He then proceeded to pass-out, trip balls and hallucinate, then cut-off the ears of said zombies and wear them as a fucking necklace. That's not Tyreese or Michonne status, but its really awesome nevertheless.
I think this is the wrong discussion though. Yes, Daryl is fulfilling Tyreese's role to some extent but the real frustration is that there is no Tyreese and yet there are those blah characters like T floating around for prolonged periods of time. That's what gets me, why couldn't we have had the best of both worlds - Tyreese and Daryl ... think of the possibilities.
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On October 22 2012 18:13 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:53 Dosey wrote:On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 16:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote:On October 22 2012 16:30 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 14:39 Disengaged wrote:On October 20 2012 16:03 p4NDemik wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This is a very accurate analysis of this show, unfortunately. For me, that chart would only apply to me for about 3-4 episodes. Tonight wasn't one of them Pretty much all of last season was like that for me, and a little of the end of the first season unfortunately =/ Things are looking up though with this episode. On October 22 2012 10:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
That was literally THE STUPIDEST thing I have ever witnessed a human ever do.
Like seriously? Performing mouth-to-mouth on a recently deceased in a zombie apocalypse...
What the fuck? Yup, Lori is still the dumbest brick on the block. Rick saying he doesn't think she's a bad mother = LOL. At least she can admit to herself she's a horrible mom even if Rick can't bring himself to say it. Yet another "are you fucking kidding me?" moment on TWD. On October 22 2012 12:17 pt wrote:
wow this episode was lacking. I disagree, I still have a lot of reservations about how they handled this episode (which was basically like 5-10 comic issues rolled up into 1 hr) but for the most part the fact that they condensed so much plot into one episode improved the show drastically. For the first time since early in season one I found myself being drawn into their adaptation rather than drawing away during long periods of horrible dialogue. They maximized the things this show actually can do right this episode and minimized the stuff they suck at (dialogue). If they continue on this route it will be a marked improvement over the previous season in my opinion, but if they decide to do that it will come at the cost of missing out on the true potential of the source material. It will be interesting to see if this episode will be the new norm or the outlier in this season. On your second point, the way I interpreted that scene was Rick giving her a hand on the shoulder out of pity but not empathy; almost as if he agreed with her. After the first two episodes it seems to me that Rick and even Carl(I guess he's having hormone/teenager issues, but Lori is a dumb ass) both hate Lori, but perhaps I was reading too much into the tone and intensity of that scene. Other thoughts: - I was expecting the scene with Maggie and Hershel on his deathbed to suck, but I was actually surprised it brought some real emotion. Props to Lauren Cohan for some pretty solid acting. - What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. Finally some comic stuff: + Show Spoiler [Comic comparison/spoilers] +First of all, it sucks that Axel has been turned into some sniveling crying wimp. I'm trying to think about the rationale of not having a more manly man play that role. I guess they didn't think it would be believable that Rick would have mercy on him if he actually had any kind of imposing stature? Since they didn't have any time to actually get acquainted there obviously was no time for trust to be built for any of them, and there still really isn't any trust, he only survived because Rick didn't see him as a threat. Also, not a single "you follow me?" all episode unless I missed something. I'm very disappointed.
I didn't really think about it until now but a lot of the pre-Governor prison drama wasn't really feasible, thus this speed-up in action and plot development. Mostly all of the issues with Tyreese and the friction between him and Rick. That took up a lot of comic-time and was out of the question unfortunately. I really do hope they get a new survivor in the group that can garner trust among the others and actually challenge Rick's alpha-dog role. Doesn't look like that will be happening until probably at least next season.
Initially I thought the one thing they could have actually done was still have the brutal murder of Hershel's other daughter though in place of the twins. They had to chose between that and having Hershel lose his leg, because if Hershel is out of commission or seriously weak he won't have much energy to grieve. I still prefer the comic version of initial cautious, but open-mindedness followed by betrayal and distrust, but maybe in the end they made the right choice. After all in the comics they hadn't had a really negative experience with other survivors yet before the prison. In the TV show they did last season with the shootout at the OK Corral. Rick is obviously already in a much darker place than he was at the same point in the comics. Probably the right choice within the context of the show, but again makes me pissed they fucked up last season so bad. Again, overall improvement, but I'm not sure if it's momentary or here to stay. I couldn't disagree with you more on the Maggie-Hershel scene. I thought that was one of the worst scenes of the entire series and seemed ridiculously forced. Especially considering that everyone knew that Hershel HAD to survive to prove that amputation can prevent a turning after being bitten. That was the whole point of him getting bitten in the first place. Comics: + Show Spoiler +I think the surviving black dude will possibly take Axels place (and essentially have a reverse of Tyreese/Axel---Daryl/Black Dude) and the mustachio guy (or a prisoner thought to be dead) will take the place of Mr. Tax Fraud. Which doesn't leave out the possibility of blondie dying. The writers seem to be afraid of (non painless vaporization) suicide, so there can be a few things happening here. Carol is killed in place of the twins, this erases her suicide scene and prevents a maggie attempted suicide, OR blondie is killed (the writers grow some balls) and Maggie attempts her suicide and Carol still carries out her own suicide, OR no one is killed, I'm completely wrong, White guy is Axel and Black Dude is just another token filler who dies off soon, and both Carol and Maggie don't attempt suicide. Concerning the amputation, why do you think they had to have him survive there? Especially as someone who read the comics I'm surprised you didn't think there was even a chance of him actually dying. All the characters and the audience at this point understands that they are already infected with the zombie-virus and its just the other infections that actually kill you. That's why none of the characters questioned Rick hacking the leg off. So they all basically accepted it was the right decision regardless of whether Hershel lived or died. Thus Hershel could (and should have imo) died there and then. As of this moment the only reason he is alive is to have the god-awful stupid wanna-be shock-inducing moment during the CPR. Imo that was the horrible scene and the Maggie scene was great. They just should have let Hershel die. + Show Spoiler [comic] +Basically, if Allen can die in the comics at that point in time, why can't Hershel die at that point in time? Its manufactured plot yet again.
+ Show Spoiler +Here is why I think they did choose to MAKE Hershel survive the amputation:
In the comic, there were 2 amputations: Dale and Allen. Allen dies from blood loss, but Dale is amputated later and actually survives, making him the first person in the entire series at that point to have survived a zombie bite. This actually finally confirms that you CAN survive due to amputation. With Dale gone in the t.v. series and hershel now bit, they have 2 choices.
1. Let hershel live to prove you can amputate to survive a zombie bite
2. Let hershel die and then have one of the other characters bitten and amputated to confirm this
But I think 1 seems a bit better to them because they live a long time in the prison, and Hershel became an integral part for them because he taught them how to grow crops (which he hasn't even shown them yet) in order to help survive for the long term. Also, the only people they really would kill off otherwise would be Tdog or the 2nd prison survivor, but that just seems really silly to have a minor character but used like that rather than a major character like Hershel.
On October 22 2012 18:24 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 18:12 BlackPaladin wrote:On October 22 2012 17:48 Mogwai wrote:On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:
- What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. eh, T is a minor character and he's fine at this point IMO. comic stuff, dunno if it really needs to be spoilered, but doing it anyway for safety sake. + Show Spoiler +everyone seems pissed that T's not Tyreese, but that's shit, Daryl's been just fine as Rick's badass right hand man. I know it sucks that there aren't strong black characters in the show yet, but it's not like the Tyreese void is completely unfilled in the show. On October 22 2012 17:41 krndandaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Did anyone watch the preview at the end of the next episode? Anyone know who those people are from the comic? + Show Spoiler +that's the governor and some of the folks from his town. I'm interested to see what they do with that arc because the graphic novel stuff for it is insanely raw and they just can't do it on TV unless we're less inhibited on TV than I think we are as a culture. + Show Spoiler +The only thing is Daryl doesn't beat a guy to death with his bare hands, then destroy the zombified person afterwards...with his bare hands. Then later on goes into a gym literally full of walkers and kills them all. Alone. With his bare hands. Without a scratch on him. Like those scenes alone made Tyreese just so badass that not having him in the show makes it all seem so lame in comparison lol. I do like the show but it's just "DARN YOU WHYYYY" (although obviously we all know the reasons being it's just way too dark and raw for television.) I do love Daryl though. He's definitely my favorite character, and is a decent substitute for Tyreese. I hope they develop Daryl into an even bigger badass as season 3 continues, and don't kill him off.
Basically the complaints about the show not being as dark for people who enjoyed the comic and now are watching the show stems from how many characters they changed or didn't include. By doing that they got rid of a lot of the darker things that would happen to said characters, or set it up differently so it just didn't have the same impact. Like when sophie died you're like "okay....well that's finally done." But when the twins Billy and Ben died it was like "wtf that kid is insane" and "man, Carol's becoming a killer." Like, it actually develops the story and characters a lot more, while keeping a dark feel to it. The whole Sophie plot which was half of season 2 was basically summed up into an "oh well" moment for most people. There was no real emotion for many because the writers didn't do enough to MAKE us give a shit about her. Hey hey lets not sell Daryl short here in the comparison. I mean he did get thrown off his horse, down a ravine, and dislocate his arm, and STILL manage to kill a handful of walkers in hand-to-hand combat. He then proceeded to pass-out, trip balls and hallucinate, then cut-off the ears of said zombies and wear them as a fucking necklace. That's not Tyreese or Michonne status, but its really awesome nevertheless. I think this is the wrong discussion though. Yes, Daryl is fulfilling Tyreese's role to some extent but the real frustration is that there is no Tyreese and yet there are those blah characters like T floating around for prolonged periods of time. That's what gets me, why couldn't we have had the best of both worlds - Tyreese and Daryl ... think of the possibilities.
Oh but that's how I feel too. Instead of getting more badass characters, a lot of them are a lot more whinny bitches or just not as badass as Tyreese/Michome level
Like Andrea in the comics wasn't an emotional wreck. She was strong willed and a good shot. That's what adaptions often do wrong - they try to change the foundations of characters, and it leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths. It would be like taking Jaedong and making him a bad zerg player in a story adaption for no real reason.
But yeah, Daryl really is my favorite, followed by Michome and Rick. Daryl definitely is a badass, can't deny that, and I never did.
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On October 22 2012 18:13 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:53 Dosey wrote:On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 16:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote:On October 22 2012 16:30 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 14:39 Disengaged wrote:On October 20 2012 16:03 p4NDemik wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This is a very accurate analysis of this show, unfortunately. For me, that chart would only apply to me for about 3-4 episodes. Tonight wasn't one of them Pretty much all of last season was like that for me, and a little of the end of the first season unfortunately =/ Things are looking up though with this episode. On October 22 2012 10:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
That was literally THE STUPIDEST thing I have ever witnessed a human ever do.
Like seriously? Performing mouth-to-mouth on a recently deceased in a zombie apocalypse...
What the fuck? Yup, Lori is still the dumbest brick on the block. Rick saying he doesn't think she's a bad mother = LOL. At least she can admit to herself she's a horrible mom even if Rick can't bring himself to say it. Yet another "are you fucking kidding me?" moment on TWD. On October 22 2012 12:17 pt wrote:
wow this episode was lacking. I disagree, I still have a lot of reservations about how they handled this episode (which was basically like 5-10 comic issues rolled up into 1 hr) but for the most part the fact that they condensed so much plot into one episode improved the show drastically. For the first time since early in season one I found myself being drawn into their adaptation rather than drawing away during long periods of horrible dialogue. They maximized the things this show actually can do right this episode and minimized the stuff they suck at (dialogue). If they continue on this route it will be a marked improvement over the previous season in my opinion, but if they decide to do that it will come at the cost of missing out on the true potential of the source material. It will be interesting to see if this episode will be the new norm or the outlier in this season. On your second point, the way I interpreted that scene was Rick giving her a hand on the shoulder out of pity but not empathy; almost as if he agreed with her. After the first two episodes it seems to me that Rick and even Carl(I guess he's having hormone/teenager issues, but Lori is a dumb ass) both hate Lori, but perhaps I was reading too much into the tone and intensity of that scene. Other thoughts: - I was expecting the scene with Maggie and Hershel on his deathbed to suck, but I was actually surprised it brought some real emotion. Props to Lauren Cohan for some pretty solid acting. - What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. Finally some comic stuff: + Show Spoiler [Comic comparison/spoilers] +First of all, it sucks that Axel has been turned into some sniveling crying wimp. I'm trying to think about the rationale of not having a more manly man play that role. I guess they didn't think it would be believable that Rick would have mercy on him if he actually had any kind of imposing stature? Since they didn't have any time to actually get acquainted there obviously was no time for trust to be built for any of them, and there still really isn't any trust, he only survived because Rick didn't see him as a threat. Also, not a single "you follow me?" all episode unless I missed something. I'm very disappointed.
I didn't really think about it until now but a lot of the pre-Governor prison drama wasn't really feasible, thus this speed-up in action and plot development. Mostly all of the issues with Tyreese and the friction between him and Rick. That took up a lot of comic-time and was out of the question unfortunately. I really do hope they get a new survivor in the group that can garner trust among the others and actually challenge Rick's alpha-dog role. Doesn't look like that will be happening until probably at least next season.
Initially I thought the one thing they could have actually done was still have the brutal murder of Hershel's other daughter though in place of the twins. They had to chose between that and having Hershel lose his leg, because if Hershel is out of commission or seriously weak he won't have much energy to grieve. I still prefer the comic version of initial cautious, but open-mindedness followed by betrayal and distrust, but maybe in the end they made the right choice. After all in the comics they hadn't had a really negative experience with other survivors yet before the prison. In the TV show they did last season with the shootout at the OK Corral. Rick is obviously already in a much darker place than he was at the same point in the comics. Probably the right choice within the context of the show, but again makes me pissed they fucked up last season so bad. Again, overall improvement, but I'm not sure if it's momentary or here to stay. I couldn't disagree with you more on the Maggie-Hershel scene. I thought that was one of the worst scenes of the entire series and seemed ridiculously forced. Especially considering that everyone knew that Hershel HAD to survive to prove that amputation can prevent a turning after being bitten. That was the whole point of him getting bitten in the first place. Comics: + Show Spoiler +I think the surviving black dude will possibly take Axels place (and essentially have a reverse of Tyreese/Axel---Daryl/Black Dude) and the mustachio guy (or a prisoner thought to be dead) will take the place of Mr. Tax Fraud. Which doesn't leave out the possibility of blondie dying. The writers seem to be afraid of (non painless vaporization) suicide, so there can be a few things happening here. Carol is killed in place of the twins, this erases her suicide scene and prevents a maggie attempted suicide, OR blondie is killed (the writers grow some balls) and Maggie attempts her suicide and Carol still carries out her own suicide, OR no one is killed, I'm completely wrong, White guy is Axel and Black Dude is just another token filler who dies off soon, and both Carol and Maggie don't attempt suicide. Concerning the amputation, why do you think they had to have him survive there? Especially as someone who read the comics I'm surprised you didn't think there was even a chance of him actually dying. All the characters and the audience at this point understands that they are already infected with the zombie-virus and its just the other infections that actually kill you. That's why none of the characters questioned Rick hacking the leg off. So they all basically accepted it was the right decision regardless of whether Hershel lived or died. Thus Hershel could (and should have imo) died there and then. As of this moment the only reason he is alive is to have the god-awful stupid wanna-be shock-inducing moment during the CPR. Imo that was the horrible scene and the Maggie scene was great. They just should have let Hershel die. + Show Spoiler [comic] +Basically, if Allen can die in the comics at that point in time, why can't Hershel die at that point in time? Its manufactured plot yet again.
I thought there was 0% chance of Hershel dying, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned so in earlier posts about last weeks episode. Yes, everyone is infected and everyone knows that, but they also know that a bite expedites the process causing you to die more quickly. They needed to show that an amputation can and will stop the process and save the victims life. THAT is the reason Hershel is alive, the stupid shock inducing moment was just even more terrible writing. Yes... let's have all this build up for Lori and her child, only to have her die-by-CPR having her lips bit off by a just turned zombie! Makes total sense! I don't believe anyone with half a brain was convinced that Hershel turned right there.
+ Show Spoiler +The Allen situation does not correlate. Allen was a useless character that contributed nothing aside from tears. With Dale dead and being the only successful amputee during the Prison Arc, it was more likely that Hershel=Dale than Hershel=Allen. Will Hershel still die? Yes, probably when Governor attacks, but definitely not before.
One thing I seriously don't understand about AMC and TWD is that most of the comic seems to be deemed "too dark" and doesn't make the cut while on BB they can shoot a fucking child in his head and the melt his body...
Tyreese= Too dark for TV (maybe they mean literally? )
Child murder and subsequent body melting= Awesome TV!
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On October 22 2012 17:43 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 15:28 blug wrote:
The thing I've never understood is that when ever they kill a Zombie they aren't shit scared that they might get some of the Zombies blood in their eyes or perhaps an open wound they got earlier before. The person who produces the show obviously doesn't take that into consideration with his characters. It's not them not taking it into consideration, it's that the premise never existed in this world. You guys are using your whatever real world knowledge of zombies and applying it to the show. Sometimes it works, like how crossbows are good weapons to pick off zombies slowly, and sometimes it doesn't, like how zombies can now use tools. It's the director's own interpretation of zombies. Sometimes, it's really consistent with what's been produced, like Romero's zombies. And sometimes, it's like the comic and Kirkman's zombies. But it's all up to the director. It's his zombies now. However, it's hard to say if they screwed it up big time with a shitty first two seasons, but that's what you accept. And the zombies here aren't even zombies, they're walkers. The concept of zombie doesn't exist, so stop treating it like you know how getting zombie blood in their eyes will affect them. Please stop thinking about how you know so much more than the producers of the show about zombies, and just enjoy the premise and new take on zombie-land, even if it's lacking in acting potential. + Show Spoiler [book] +
Even though the audience is clearly not ready for some of the shit they went through in the comics, like torturing the governor, the shit with the governor's child, the ridiculously long time they spent in the prison arc with the lovers committing suicide and the dad killing the entire cafeteria full of zombies with his hands, I feel like they would add so much missing "wtf" to the series, and enough to relax the comic people. It's hard to watch knowing that the producers are so reluctant to put in the dark, dark, dark themes that made the comic what it was.
I think it was put very eloquently in the recent comics before shit hit the fan. Rick is the leader of their ragged troupe of the bad-ass military dude, Michonne, and Andrea. He has the respect of the entire community, not to mention being a leader, and he's missing his fucking hand. The guy can't imagine what shit Rick went through to be so bloody respected. At the current rate, I don't think we'll get that kind of scene or feeling from Rick, though you can clearly see he's very visibly affected by all the killing.
Wait that? I don't think I know a shit load about Zombies/Walkers, but if the Virus is potent enough to be transmitted through getting cut or bitten by a Zombie, I am almost 100% sure it would be potent enough to infect you if you got a miniscule amount in your eye.
If the Walking Dead is trying to portray a real Zombie Apocalypse, then maybe they should take stuff like that a bit more seriously.
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On October 22 2012 18:47 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:43 Blisse wrote:On October 22 2012 15:28 blug wrote:
The thing I've never understood is that when ever they kill a Zombie they aren't shit scared that they might get some of the Zombies blood in their eyes or perhaps an open wound they got earlier before. The person who produces the show obviously doesn't take that into consideration with his characters. It's not them not taking it into consideration, it's that the premise never existed in this world. You guys are using your whatever real world knowledge of zombies and applying it to the show. Sometimes it works, like how crossbows are good weapons to pick off zombies slowly, and sometimes it doesn't, like how zombies can now use tools. It's the director's own interpretation of zombies. Sometimes, it's really consistent with what's been produced, like Romero's zombies. And sometimes, it's like the comic and Kirkman's zombies. But it's all up to the director. It's his zombies now. However, it's hard to say if they screwed it up big time with a shitty first two seasons, but that's what you accept. And the zombies here aren't even zombies, they're walkers. The concept of zombie doesn't exist, so stop treating it like you know how getting zombie blood in their eyes will affect them. Please stop thinking about how you know so much more than the producers of the show about zombies, and just enjoy the premise and new take on zombie-land, even if it's lacking in acting potential. + Show Spoiler [book] +
Even though the audience is clearly not ready for some of the shit they went through in the comics, like torturing the governor, the shit with the governor's child, the ridiculously long time they spent in the prison arc with the lovers committing suicide and the dad killing the entire cafeteria full of zombies with his hands, I feel like they would add so much missing "wtf" to the series, and enough to relax the comic people. It's hard to watch knowing that the producers are so reluctant to put in the dark, dark, dark themes that made the comic what it was.
I think it was put very eloquently in the recent comics before shit hit the fan. Rick is the leader of their ragged troupe of the bad-ass military dude, Michonne, and Andrea. He has the respect of the entire community, not to mention being a leader, and he's missing his fucking hand. The guy can't imagine what shit Rick went through to be so bloody respected. At the current rate, I don't think we'll get that kind of scene or feeling from Rick, though you can clearly see he's very visibly affected by all the killing.
Wait that? I don't think I know a shit load about Zombies/Walkers, but if the Virus is potent enough to be transmitted through getting cut or bitten by a Zombie, I am almost 100% sure it would be potent enough to infect you if you got a miniscule amount in your eye. If the Walking Dead is trying to portray a real Zombie Apocalypse, then maybe they should take stuff like that a bit more seriously.
Yeah, a "real" zombie apocalypse, where the DEAD reanimate......okay. Right.
In Kirkman's world everyone who dies reanimates, unless they suffered brain trauma. Bites will kill you due to a "powerful infection," but any walker blood or saliva inside you (+ Show Spoiler +people being covered in zombie blood after killings, or the Governor deep kissing his zombified niece
Sci-fi is basically realistic enough where you can relate, but has certain fictional elements where they exaggerate something or try to make something that simply doesn't work in the real world into a fact. The dead reanimating is one of those things, as is how bites work. But it becomes realistic by putting it into our world with characters we can relate to. You really can't delve too deep into it.
Do you really want to know just HOW inaccurate star wars/star trek/many other sci-fi movies are if you look into it as deeply are you are TWD?
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On October 22 2012 18:47 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:43 Blisse wrote:On October 22 2012 15:28 blug wrote:
The thing I've never understood is that when ever they kill a Zombie they aren't shit scared that they might get some of the Zombies blood in their eyes or perhaps an open wound they got earlier before. The person who produces the show obviously doesn't take that into consideration with his characters. It's not them not taking it into consideration, it's that the premise never existed in this world. You guys are using your whatever real world knowledge of zombies and applying it to the show. Sometimes it works, like how crossbows are good weapons to pick off zombies slowly, and sometimes it doesn't, like how zombies can now use tools. It's the director's own interpretation of zombies. Sometimes, it's really consistent with what's been produced, like Romero's zombies. And sometimes, it's like the comic and Kirkman's zombies. But it's all up to the director. It's his zombies now. However, it's hard to say if they screwed it up big time with a shitty first two seasons, but that's what you accept. And the zombies here aren't even zombies, they're walkers. The concept of zombie doesn't exist, so stop treating it like you know how getting zombie blood in their eyes will affect them. Please stop thinking about how you know so much more than the producers of the show about zombies, and just enjoy the premise and new take on zombie-land, even if it's lacking in acting potential. + Show Spoiler [book] +
Even though the audience is clearly not ready for some of the shit they went through in the comics, like torturing the governor, the shit with the governor's child, the ridiculously long time they spent in the prison arc with the lovers committing suicide and the dad killing the entire cafeteria full of zombies with his hands, I feel like they would add so much missing "wtf" to the series, and enough to relax the comic people. It's hard to watch knowing that the producers are so reluctant to put in the dark, dark, dark themes that made the comic what it was.
I think it was put very eloquently in the recent comics before shit hit the fan. Rick is the leader of their ragged troupe of the bad-ass military dude, Michonne, and Andrea. He has the respect of the entire community, not to mention being a leader, and he's missing his fucking hand. The guy can't imagine what shit Rick went through to be so bloody respected. At the current rate, I don't think we'll get that kind of scene or feeling from Rick, though you can clearly see he's very visibly affected by all the killing.
Wait that? I don't think I know a shit load about Zombies/Walkers, but if the Virus is potent enough to be transmitted through getting cut or bitten by a Zombie, I am almost 100% sure it would be potent enough to infect you if you got a miniscule amount in your eye. If the Walking Dead is trying to portray a real Zombie Apocalypse, then maybe they should take stuff like that a bit more seriously.
If you haven't followed the series closely enough, the CDC guy told Rick that everyone is already infected, and if you die of natural causes, you'll still turn.
The current speculation is that the zombie bites kill you for some mysterious reason, maybe from infecting your blood stream until it gets to your head or heart, which explains why amputating Hershel saved him. There's nothing at all about blood-to-blood transfer killing people, which is what people hate because they have this idea that zombies work like that. Instead, it's your version of zombies that works like that, not this series'. Particularly, you have Brooks' zombies in mind.
Take a look at http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies#Reanimation and compare it to Romero's zombies. Kirkman set his own limits. Romero set his own limits. Brooks (author of the Zombie Survival Guide) set his own limits. Everyone has their own vision of how the zombies should behave, should work out.
I forget that movie where the zombies ran faster than humans almost, that became a cult classic. Didn't enjoy that interpretation, but that's the producers' interpretation, and that's that. Either you accept it or you don't.
EDIT: I think this topic comes up every other week, which is cool to see so many new viewers, but forgive if people are a bit cranky about it. Also, lolol, four responses in a row. o:
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On October 22 2012 18:47 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:43 Blisse wrote:On October 22 2012 15:28 blug wrote:
The thing I've never understood is that when ever they kill a Zombie they aren't shit scared that they might get some of the Zombies blood in their eyes or perhaps an open wound they got earlier before. The person who produces the show obviously doesn't take that into consideration with his characters. It's not them not taking it into consideration, it's that the premise never existed in this world. You guys are using your whatever real world knowledge of zombies and applying it to the show. Sometimes it works, like how crossbows are good weapons to pick off zombies slowly, and sometimes it doesn't, like how zombies can now use tools. It's the director's own interpretation of zombies. Sometimes, it's really consistent with what's been produced, like Romero's zombies. And sometimes, it's like the comic and Kirkman's zombies. But it's all up to the director. It's his zombies now. However, it's hard to say if they screwed it up big time with a shitty first two seasons, but that's what you accept. And the zombies here aren't even zombies, they're walkers. The concept of zombie doesn't exist, so stop treating it like you know how getting zombie blood in their eyes will affect them. Please stop thinking about how you know so much more than the producers of the show about zombies, and just enjoy the premise and new take on zombie-land, even if it's lacking in acting potential. + Show Spoiler [book] +
Even though the audience is clearly not ready for some of the shit they went through in the comics, like torturing the governor, the shit with the governor's child, the ridiculously long time they spent in the prison arc with the lovers committing suicide and the dad killing the entire cafeteria full of zombies with his hands, I feel like they would add so much missing "wtf" to the series, and enough to relax the comic people. It's hard to watch knowing that the producers are so reluctant to put in the dark, dark, dark themes that made the comic what it was.
I think it was put very eloquently in the recent comics before shit hit the fan. Rick is the leader of their ragged troupe of the bad-ass military dude, Michonne, and Andrea. He has the respect of the entire community, not to mention being a leader, and he's missing his fucking hand. The guy can't imagine what shit Rick went through to be so bloody respected. At the current rate, I don't think we'll get that kind of scene or feeling from Rick, though you can clearly see he's very visibly affected by all the killing.
Wait that? I don't think I know a shit load about Zombies/Walkers, but if the Virus is potent enough to be transmitted through getting cut or bitten by a Zombie, I am almost 100% sure it would be potent enough to infect you if you got a miniscule amount in your eye. If the Walking Dead is trying to portray a real Zombie Apocalypse, then maybe they should take stuff like that a bit more seriously.
Have you not been paying attention? They are all already infected with the virus. Once someone dies (regardless of whether it was due to a zombie bite or getting shot), the person becomes a zombie. The reason people die due to zombie bites/scratches is due to an infection that leads to your death. The bite itself does not transmit the zombie virus. There has been no information about how the pathology of this infection (not the virus but the thing that causes the fever and subsequent death), so you cannot simply say getting blood splashed on your eye should kill you. As a side note, the eye has evolved to be highly resistant to infection (e.g., our tears contain large amounts of lysozyme, which disrupt bacteria cell wall), so even if there was some kind of bacteria mixed in with the blood that was causing the infection, it won't necessarily get through the eye.
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United States13896 Posts
On October 22 2012 18:47 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:43 Blisse wrote:On October 22 2012 15:28 blug wrote:
The thing I've never understood is that when ever they kill a Zombie they aren't shit scared that they might get some of the Zombies blood in their eyes or perhaps an open wound they got earlier before. The person who produces the show obviously doesn't take that into consideration with his characters. It's not them not taking it into consideration, it's that the premise never existed in this world. You guys are using your whatever real world knowledge of zombies and applying it to the show. Sometimes it works, like how crossbows are good weapons to pick off zombies slowly, and sometimes it doesn't, like how zombies can now use tools. It's the director's own interpretation of zombies. Sometimes, it's really consistent with what's been produced, like Romero's zombies. And sometimes, it's like the comic and Kirkman's zombies. But it's all up to the director. It's his zombies now. However, it's hard to say if they screwed it up big time with a shitty first two seasons, but that's what you accept. And the zombies here aren't even zombies, they're walkers. The concept of zombie doesn't exist, so stop treating it like you know how getting zombie blood in their eyes will affect them. Please stop thinking about how you know so much more than the producers of the show about zombies, and just enjoy the premise and new take on zombie-land, even if it's lacking in acting potential. + Show Spoiler [book] +
Even though the audience is clearly not ready for some of the shit they went through in the comics, like torturing the governor, the shit with the governor's child, the ridiculously long time they spent in the prison arc with the lovers committing suicide and the dad killing the entire cafeteria full of zombies with his hands, I feel like they would add so much missing "wtf" to the series, and enough to relax the comic people. It's hard to watch knowing that the producers are so reluctant to put in the dark, dark, dark themes that made the comic what it was.
I think it was put very eloquently in the recent comics before shit hit the fan. Rick is the leader of their ragged troupe of the bad-ass military dude, Michonne, and Andrea. He has the respect of the entire community, not to mention being a leader, and he's missing his fucking hand. The guy can't imagine what shit Rick went through to be so bloody respected. At the current rate, I don't think we'll get that kind of scene or feeling from Rick, though you can clearly see he's very visibly affected by all the killing.
Wait that? I don't think I know a shit load about Zombies/Walkers, but if the Virus is potent enough to be transmitted through getting cut or bitten by a Zombie, I am almost 100% sure it would be potent enough to infect you if you got a miniscule amount in your eye. If the Walking Dead is trying to portray a real Zombie Apocalypse, then maybe they should take stuff like that a bit more seriously.
Dude it isn't transmitted by getting bitten or scratched. You're wrong. TWD doesn't have to take the archetypal Romero stance on zombies. It isn't set in stone anywhere, handed down from above. When Kirkman created the universe he decided that wasn't the direction he wanted. So please, stop spouting off about stuff you aren't properly informed about.
edit: Whoah, didn't mean to pile on, but yeah I think its pretty clear now.
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On October 22 2012 18:25 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 18:13 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 17:53 Dosey wrote:On October 22 2012 17:26 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 16:35 DrTJEckleburg wrote:On October 22 2012 16:30 p4NDemik wrote:On October 22 2012 14:39 Disengaged wrote:On October 20 2012 16:03 p4NDemik wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This is a very accurate analysis of this show, unfortunately. For me, that chart would only apply to me for about 3-4 episodes. Tonight wasn't one of them Pretty much all of last season was like that for me, and a little of the end of the first season unfortunately =/ Things are looking up though with this episode. On October 22 2012 10:48 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
That was literally THE STUPIDEST thing I have ever witnessed a human ever do.
Like seriously? Performing mouth-to-mouth on a recently deceased in a zombie apocalypse...
What the fuck? Yup, Lori is still the dumbest brick on the block. Rick saying he doesn't think she's a bad mother = LOL. At least she can admit to herself she's a horrible mom even if Rick can't bring himself to say it. Yet another "are you fucking kidding me?" moment on TWD. On October 22 2012 12:17 pt wrote:
wow this episode was lacking. I disagree, I still have a lot of reservations about how they handled this episode (which was basically like 5-10 comic issues rolled up into 1 hr) but for the most part the fact that they condensed so much plot into one episode improved the show drastically. For the first time since early in season one I found myself being drawn into their adaptation rather than drawing away during long periods of horrible dialogue. They maximized the things this show actually can do right this episode and minimized the stuff they suck at (dialogue). If they continue on this route it will be a marked improvement over the previous season in my opinion, but if they decide to do that it will come at the cost of missing out on the true potential of the source material. It will be interesting to see if this episode will be the new norm or the outlier in this season. On your second point, the way I interpreted that scene was Rick giving her a hand on the shoulder out of pity but not empathy; almost as if he agreed with her. After the first two episodes it seems to me that Rick and even Carl(I guess he's having hormone/teenager issues, but Lori is a dumb ass) both hate Lori, but perhaps I was reading too much into the tone and intensity of that scene. Other thoughts: - I was expecting the scene with Maggie and Hershel on his deathbed to suck, but I was actually surprised it brought some real emotion. Props to Lauren Cohan for some pretty solid acting. - What is the name of the one surviving black prisoners name? Also, kind of sad/typical/funny they introduce 3 more black characters and before the episode is even over 2 of them are dead. T got a few lines this episode! Something about food and then the advice to remove the bodies and burn them ... still can't really call that progress at all, they really don't really seem to have any initiative to flesh his character out sadly. I keep hoping, but they never do. Finally some comic stuff: + Show Spoiler [Comic comparison/spoilers] +First of all, it sucks that Axel has been turned into some sniveling crying wimp. I'm trying to think about the rationale of not having a more manly man play that role. I guess they didn't think it would be believable that Rick would have mercy on him if he actually had any kind of imposing stature? Since they didn't have any time to actually get acquainted there obviously was no time for trust to be built for any of them, and there still really isn't any trust, he only survived because Rick didn't see him as a threat. Also, not a single "you follow me?" all episode unless I missed something. I'm very disappointed.
I didn't really think about it until now but a lot of the pre-Governor prison drama wasn't really feasible, thus this speed-up in action and plot development. Mostly all of the issues with Tyreese and the friction between him and Rick. That took up a lot of comic-time and was out of the question unfortunately. I really do hope they get a new survivor in the group that can garner trust among the others and actually challenge Rick's alpha-dog role. Doesn't look like that will be happening until probably at least next season.
Initially I thought the one thing they could have actually done was still have the brutal murder of Hershel's other daughter though in place of the twins. They had to chose between that and having Hershel lose his leg, because if Hershel is out of commission or seriously weak he won't have much energy to grieve. I still prefer the comic version of initial cautious, but open-mindedness followed by betrayal and distrust, but maybe in the end they made the right choice. After all in the comics they hadn't had a really negative experience with other survivors yet before the prison. In the TV show they did last season with the shootout at the OK Corral. Rick is obviously already in a much darker place than he was at the same point in the comics. Probably the right choice within the context of the show, but again makes me pissed they fucked up last season so bad. Again, overall improvement, but I'm not sure if it's momentary or here to stay. I couldn't disagree with you more on the Maggie-Hershel scene. I thought that was one of the worst scenes of the entire series and seemed ridiculously forced. Especially considering that everyone knew that Hershel HAD to survive to prove that amputation can prevent a turning after being bitten. That was the whole point of him getting bitten in the first place. Comics: + Show Spoiler +I think the surviving black dude will possibly take Axels place (and essentially have a reverse of Tyreese/Axel---Daryl/Black Dude) and the mustachio guy (or a prisoner thought to be dead) will take the place of Mr. Tax Fraud. Which doesn't leave out the possibility of blondie dying. The writers seem to be afraid of (non painless vaporization) suicide, so there can be a few things happening here. Carol is killed in place of the twins, this erases her suicide scene and prevents a maggie attempted suicide, OR blondie is killed (the writers grow some balls) and Maggie attempts her suicide and Carol still carries out her own suicide, OR no one is killed, I'm completely wrong, White guy is Axel and Black Dude is just another token filler who dies off soon, and both Carol and Maggie don't attempt suicide. Concerning the amputation, why do you think they had to have him survive there? Especially as someone who read the comics I'm surprised you didn't think there was even a chance of him actually dying. All the characters and the audience at this point understands that they are already infected with the zombie-virus and its just the other infections that actually kill you. That's why none of the characters questioned Rick hacking the leg off. So they all basically accepted it was the right decision regardless of whether Hershel lived or died. Thus Hershel could (and should have imo) died there and then. As of this moment the only reason he is alive is to have the god-awful stupid wanna-be shock-inducing moment during the CPR. Imo that was the horrible scene and the Maggie scene was great. They just should have let Hershel die. + Show Spoiler [comic] +Basically, if Allen can die in the comics at that point in time, why can't Hershel die at that point in time? Its manufactured plot yet again. + Show Spoiler +Here is why I think they did choose to MAKE Hershel survive the amputation:
In the comic, there were 2 amputations: Dale and Allen. Allen dies from blood loss, but Dale is amputated later and actually survives, making him the first person in the entire series at that point to have survived a zombie bite. This actually finally confirms that you CAN survive due to amputation. With Dale gone in the t.v. series and hershel now bit, they have 2 choices.
1. Let hershel live to prove you can amputate to survive a zombie bite
2. Let hershel die and then have one of the other characters bitten and amputated to confirm this
But I think 1 seems a bit better to them because they live a long time in the prison, and Hershel became an integral part for them because he taught them how to grow crops (which he hasn't even shown them yet) in order to help survive for the long term. Also, the only people they really would kill off otherwise would be Tdog or the 2nd prison survivor, but that just seems really silly to have a minor character but used like that rather than a major character like Hershel.
You guys are missing my point. Doctors can and have been doing amputations for a long time now. It has already been established the zombie virus does not operate like in a lot of traditional zombie flicks. They are already infected with the zombie virus that turns them when they die. Its the immediate infection that leads to death. There is zero logical reason to not believe that it is possible to stop the immediate infection. Given time and practice the group could get the skills to do a successful one, and any reasonable person would accept that. Ergo there is no need to prove anything in this circumstance.
Lets look at the situation: Hershel received a very severe bite to the lower leg that almost undoubtedly would have lead to widespread infection and death considering their limited medical experience. Rick then proceeds to amputate said lower leg with a completely unsterilized hatchet that he was only seconds before using to hack apart the rotting corpses that are the zombies. In spite of this, Hershel somehow doesn't get any infection at all, but dies due to blood loss, then is brought back to life by the most dim-witted character on the show who by some miracle actually knows CPR. Tell me how this is at all feasible and doesn't completely shit on reasonable suspension of disbelief.
Contrast that with the comic where there is basis in reality and suspension of disbelief is within reasonable margins. Rick decides to make the same rash decision, use the same unsterilized equipment, and though Allen survives the initial trauma of the amputation the inevitable infection sets in and he dies.
One of these scenarios is believable and one just is not. On top of that there is no need to show that a post-zombie-apocalypse amputation can be successful because there is no difference between said amputation and a pre-zombie-apocalypse amputation. Its just bad any way you look at it.
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United States13896 Posts
The logical expectation is that Hershel dies. The writers chose the completely illogical route for reasons yet to be seen and I completely disagree with that decision. It once again flies in the face of the creators original thought process and simply makes for bad television. If Hershel had died the scene with Maggie would have been fine, perfectly believable, and well-acted. Too bad for the actress the writers completely undermined what imo was good delivery and execution.
I have a lot of respect for Kirkman as a writer and I'm sure that as in all of Hollywood there is a certain amount of control you have to let go of in order to get a show done, but I can't imagine these artistic decisions really, truly sit well with him. I don't know maybe he's changed as a writer as the comic went into its latter issues and he's more lax about this stuff now. I have read up until like issue 70 something I think so maybe it goes downhill after that. But in those first 70 issues he comes off in the responses he writes to fans as a guy who has a pretty firm idea of what he wanted to do and what he wanted to accomplish. At some point in the road it feels to me as an outside observer either a) he got railroaded by AMC (I doubt because he always seems completely positive about the TV show, and who can he not be when its performing so well in ratings dept.) or b) he's just changed that much. Its a shame when this show puts together some thrilling television it has these face-palm inducing moments.
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I really liked the episode. I'm so damn happy they're getting away from the formula of creating blatantly obvious sources of conflict so they have something to show for half a season. I was really scared they'd do this with the obviously insane prisoner guy.. but they immediately killed him off. Made me happy. 
Then there's Carl who is actually growing up a little and becomes more likeable. And there's barely any Lori scenes anyhow, so I don't know why people complain about that.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8TLgk.png)
