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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now.
I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil.
What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far?
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On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far?
Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane.
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the look on Rick's face in that final scene is fucking scary. I mean it literally shows something changing inside of Rick.
COMIC SPOILER
+ Show Spoiler + I've been waiting to see when both Shane dies, and when Rick starts to go crazy, i thought it was one thing that made the comic much more compelling is seeing how even the 'white knight' would lose himself in the apocalypse
Also,
I don't think it's safe to say that Shane has done 'no wrong'. Remember, there's varying degrees of being 'good'. Rick is the Lawful good, trying to keep his humanity and that of the group as a whole despite the loss of civilization. Yes his way is slower, and yes his way is 'old school', but he's trying his best to make sure that despite the whole world going to shit, people can still be good people, without giving up on their morals.
Shane is more of the Chaotic Good. He means well, and wants to do what's best for the 'greater good' but his methods are often frowned upon, and seen as brash, he doesn't like planning, and prefers to wing it. The conflict comes from the large fact that he WAS the leader of this group, then rick came in, and in 1 fell swoop, took over control and hasn't let up since. People who are Chaotic Good tend to want to be in charge, and don't like being bossed around even if it is from his own best friend.
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On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane.
When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away...
If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this.
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On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane.
I agree with you.. but then there are some situations where I think.. the community makes some strange decisions.
Shane does what's best for himself and he tries to rationalize it in a way so that it seems like he's doing for everyone. I'll give you that for sure.
But when it comes to Daryl, Glenn and Rick risking their lives... they shouldn't even be doing those things in the first place. Like Daryl, going out alone into the woods looking for a girl that shouldn't have been looked for THAT long. Why would you go out alone.. in the woods..
And the chances of her being alive were so low and yet he kept looking. Brave? Sure.. but "smart"? No. The main evidence is of him falling off his horse and getting an arrow to his body and running away from walkers and then getting shot at.
As for Glenn? Is he brave or just an errand boy? He may be doing the rough stuff for the group as well but let's be honest; they're all using him. "Go into town and get this shit".. "We're gonna tie you and drop you into this well where there's this walker.."
Like.. WTF? Why would you risk it like that. And if it's always him; you gotta wonder.. if you're just an errand boy. Like I feel like he's socially bullied into doing it because they view him as inferior and perhaps there's even a bit of racism in there. I'm not gonna lie. Underlying racism within the group towards Glenn with the exception of the girl who's sexing him.
As for Rick? He's doing what he can I guess but the decisions he makes.. is what creates these problems for them. Yes, he seems brave and a good leader but at the same time; the choices he's pursued are what have led them into these high risk and ridiculous missions. His intention and his actual results are... unsatisfactory.
In conclusion, they're all flawed.. really really flawed.
But that's what makes a good character to watch on TV. If they were perfect; it wouldn't be much of a show.
Although, the writing.. and acting.. and production could really really REALLY used some improvement.
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^For Daryl, maybe that cliche great-character-fall stuff that happens in novels a lot. He actually seemed like the guy in the first part of the season that would do that. Just nice in general.
+ Show Spoiler [book] + As for Glenn, he's supposed to be the best at those sorts of scavenging missions. At least that's what he developed into in the books, and that's why I think there's so much focus on him being like the go-to guy for everything of that sort. And that's why I think they made him rage from freezing up during all the action. He's not that type of person.
As for Rick, that's how his character works. He does stuff that are both good and bad, and it pulls him apart.
In the end, these are the people you have to deal with in an apocalypse. Not everyone is ideal, yeah?
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On February 23 2012 06:53 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away... If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this.
Lori, went to shane when they came back for protection/friendship, then as it went on obviously needs. She was perfectly content with it until Rick was alive. If anything Shane should just be like that's my kid, you were in a hospital bro. I'm not trying to be a dick about it. I went to the hospital they were killing everything, you had no vitals, I had to get out of there, I don't know how you lived, I'm not sure. The group will be significantly weaker with Shane at this moment.
glen is a wuss
tdog is the first guy about to go down
dale does nothing but fix his RV...
Shane - badass
Rick - badass defacto leader
Darryl - badass redneck
Herschel - can't hack it in this world
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On February 23 2012 06:53 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away... If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this.
At the CDC he was pretty forward with his 'feelings'
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On February 23 2012 08:28 Eishi_Ki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:53 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away... If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this. At the CDC he was pretty forward with his 'feelings'
Can you remind me what happened?
Forgot to add the real big thing he's done wrong, btw. He pointed his gun at Rick and thought about killing him.
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On February 23 2012 08:49 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 08:28 Eishi_Ki wrote:On February 23 2012 06:53 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away... If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this. At the CDC he was pretty forward with his 'feelings' Can you remind me what happened? Forgot to add the real big thing he's done wrong, btw. He pointed his gun at Rick and thought about killing him.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On February 23 2012 08:28 Eishi_Ki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:53 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away... If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this. At the CDC he was pretty forward with his 'feelings'
He also had a lot to drink.
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I don't see what Lori has done wrong except be annoying. She slept with Shane when she thought Rick was dead. When Rick was back she came back to him and cut things off with Shane. Shane's the one who keeps trying to talk to her when she isn't interested in him and made that clear. And as others mentioned there is the little incident of Shane trying to rape her. Basically Shane is a threat to her family and she's completely right about that. She clearly loves Rick and doesn't want him to get caught off guard by not knowing how crazy Shane is for her.
Any of you would want your girl to do the same thing in that situation. Sure she isn't nice to Shane but that's pretty much to be expected when you have a family and there's a creepy guy who won't leave you alone and who tried to rape you. Lori's "Grima Wormtongue" shit at the end of the episode is probably gonna save Rick from getting backstabbed by Shane.
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On February 23 2012 06:58 jjun212 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. I agree with you.. but then there are some situations where I think.. the community makes some strange decisions. Shane does what's best for himself and he tries to rationalize it in a way so that it seems like he's doing for everyone. I'll give you that for sure. But when it comes to Daryl, Glenn and Rick risking their lives... they shouldn't even be doing those things in the first place. Like Daryl, going out alone into the woods looking for a girl that shouldn't have been looked for THAT long. Why would you go out alone.. in the woods.. And the chances of her being alive were so low and yet he kept looking. Brave? Sure.. but "smart"? No. The main evidence is of him falling off his horse and getting an arrow to his body and running away from walkers and then getting shot at. As for Glenn? Is he brave or just an errand boy? He may be doing the rough stuff for the group as well but let's be honest; they're all using him. "Go into town and get this shit".. "We're gonna tie you and drop you into this well where there's this walker.." Like.. WTF? Why would you risk it like that. And if it's always him; you gotta wonder.. if you're just an errand boy. Like I feel like he's socially bullied into doing it because they view him as inferior and perhaps there's even a bit of racism in there. I'm not gonna lie. Underlying racism within the group towards Glenn with the exception of the girl who's sexing him. As for Rick? He's doing what he can I guess but the decisions he makes.. is what creates these problems for them. Yes, he seems brave and a good leader but at the same time; the choices he's pursued are what have led them into these high risk and ridiculous missions. His intention and his actual results are... unsatisfactory. In conclusion, they're all flawed.. really really flawed. But that's what makes a good character to watch on TV. If they were perfect; it wouldn't be much of a show. Although, the writing.. and acting.. and production could really really REALLY used some improvement.
I agree with you, too. Shane has been making the best decisions and has been the 'smartest'. But common sense and altruism don't always go hand in hand. Shane is far from evil but he is with a group that is so altruistic that he comes off worse than he is.
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On February 23 2012 06:53 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away... If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this.
Why be open about the feelings if it's not to sway her to leave Rick for you? A good friend keeps those feelings to himself instead of trying to be a homewrecker.
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On February 23 2012 09:15 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:58 jjun212 wrote:On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. I agree with you.. but then there are some situations where I think.. the community makes some strange decisions. Shane does what's best for himself and he tries to rationalize it in a way so that it seems like he's doing for everyone. I'll give you that for sure. But when it comes to Daryl, Glenn and Rick risking their lives... they shouldn't even be doing those things in the first place. Like Daryl, going out alone into the woods looking for a girl that shouldn't have been looked for THAT long. Why would you go out alone.. in the woods.. And the chances of her being alive were so low and yet he kept looking. Brave? Sure.. but "smart"? No. The main evidence is of him falling off his horse and getting an arrow to his body and running away from walkers and then getting shot at. As for Glenn? Is he brave or just an errand boy? He may be doing the rough stuff for the group as well but let's be honest; they're all using him. "Go into town and get this shit".. "We're gonna tie you and drop you into this well where there's this walker.." Like.. WTF? Why would you risk it like that. And if it's always him; you gotta wonder.. if you're just an errand boy. Like I feel like he's socially bullied into doing it because they view him as inferior and perhaps there's even a bit of racism in there. I'm not gonna lie. Underlying racism within the group towards Glenn with the exception of the girl who's sexing him. As for Rick? He's doing what he can I guess but the decisions he makes.. is what creates these problems for them. Yes, he seems brave and a good leader but at the same time; the choices he's pursued are what have led them into these high risk and ridiculous missions. His intention and his actual results are... unsatisfactory. In conclusion, they're all flawed.. really really flawed. But that's what makes a good character to watch on TV. If they were perfect; it wouldn't be much of a show. Although, the writing.. and acting.. and production could really really REALLY used some improvement. I agree with you, too. Shane has been making the best decisions and has been the 'smartest'. But common sense and altruism don't always go hand in hand. Shane is far from evil but he is with a group that is so altruistic that he comes off worse than he is.
Shane makes good decisions when it comes to how to deal with zombies and what the group should do but he makes horrible decisions when it comes to how to get that across. He has zero leadership abilities and expects people to just obey his commands. If they don't he blows up and threatens them. I'd rather deal with Rick's questionable decisions than a guy who splits people apart and turns every decision into a zero sum game and tries to get his way through violence. Cooperation and group stability is the most important thing in terms of survival at this point.
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I really can't remember the "attempted" rape scene.
I'm trying to figure out how he "attempted" it. Was he interrupted? Brought to his senses? Startled?
Can someone describe the scene? Or link it maybe.
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On February 23 2012 09:49 Uncultured wrote:
I really can't remember the "attempted" rape scene.
I'm trying to figure out how he "attempted" it. Was he interrupted? Brought to his senses? Startled?
Can someone describe the scene? Or link it maybe.
I'm pretty sure it was at the end of season 1, when they were in the station with the doctor. Shane grabbed her in the library or something. She slapped him, and he took off.
Its been quite a while since i saw it, so i might be wrong
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On February 23 2012 10:00 lintho wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 09:49 Uncultured wrote:
I really can't remember the "attempted" rape scene.
I'm trying to figure out how he "attempted" it. Was he interrupted? Brought to his senses? Startled?
Can someone describe the scene? Or link it maybe. I'm pretty sure it was at the end of season 1, when they were in the station with the doctor. Shane grabbed her in the library or something. She slapped him, and he took off. Its been quite a while since i saw it, so i might be wrong
I went back and re-watched it. Shane's drunk off his ass, telling Lori how he didn't leave Rick, how he tried to save him, and he's talking about how much he loves Lori.
He gets in real close while going off about how much she has to love him too, because of the way she acted with him before Rick showed up. He tries to smooch her, puts a hand on her thigh, and presses in close all while looking like he's about to burst out into tears. All the while Lori is resisting, and eventually Shane stops when she scratches him on the cheek/neck and storms off, punching a wall.
This wasn't attempted rape, so much. I don't think there was any "I want to have sex right now" Thoughts in Shanes mind. More like "I want to convince this woman how much I love her." Not saying what he did was right, he was basically forcing himself on her and didn't stop till she hit him. But calling this attempted rape is sort of obfuscating what really happened.
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On February 23 2012 08:54 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 08:49 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 08:28 Eishi_Ki wrote:On February 23 2012 06:53 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 06:46 BlackJack wrote:On February 23 2012 06:33 Uncultured wrote:On February 23 2012 04:44 Mordiford wrote:On February 23 2012 04:32 Rafreaky wrote:
The Walking Dead is a great show. I love how the main characters best friend is becoming so evil. I feel like Lori is sort of the evil one to be honest. She's not that much better than Shane, she's in total denial and her scene at the end with Rick in the last episode was really some Grima Wormtongue shit. Part of the reason why Shane is sort of losing it is because Lori won't acknowledge or take responsibility for anything that happened with him, she's constantly hounding him with the guilt of telling her Rick was dead despite being told what the hospital was like when Shane got there. Then, despite having her and her son saved multiple fucking times by Shane, she continues to pretend he's nothing but a threat. She's the real threat, to be honest I sort of see her as the villain of the show right now. I agree completely. We've seen the scene where Shane goes back for Rick. It's very clear he wanted to save him, but things were so terrible how couldn't the guy be dead. I'm trying to sum up the things Shane has done "wrong" and its a very slim list of things. Opening the barn was too rash and not very well thought out. Shooting Otis in the leg and leaving him there... He did it to save the kid, and himself. I mean... How can you judge someone for that choice. It's a pretty rotten thign to do, but in no way evil. What do ya'll think Shane has done wrong so far? Isn't trying to steal his best friend's wife enough "wrong"? I'm not talking about when he thought Rick was dead, I'm talking about currently. Sure Shane is helpful - when his helpfulness will score him brownie points with Lorie. Would he be so sure about moving on if Carl was missing instead of Sophia? I doubt it. It's Daryl, Glenn and Rick that risk their lives doing stuff for the good of their community. Shane only does what is best for Shane. When has he tried to steal Lori? He's only been open about his feelings to her, and was upset when she went on about her not having his kid, when she could. He protects her and Carl. If that's "trying to steal" someone away... If anything Rick came back from the dead and stole Lori from Shane. He's actually done quite well with dealing with this. At the CDC he was pretty forward with his 'feelings' Can you remind me what happened? Forgot to add the real big thing he's done wrong, btw. He pointed his gun at Rick and thought about killing him. + Show Spoiler +
Alright, hold on a second. He was drunk and very aggressive in trying to get with Lori but she approached him at kind of a shitty time and he backed off as soon as he realized what he was doing. Do you really think that Shane doesn't have the physical ability to pin her down after a simple slap/scratch? Yes, that was a really fucked up moment for his character, but he was drunk(which doesn't excuse his actions but is worth noting) and stopped as soon as he realized she was not having it.
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Yeah, pointing a gun at Rick and shooting Otis is by far worse than that.
Shooting Otis is easily justifiable. He's in a situation where he has to save himself as well as a kid he cares about
Pointing his gun at Rick it totally understandable. He basically lost his ability to be the leader, his girl, and the kid who he was getting really close to all because of Rick. So he thought about making the situation better for himself, and DECIDED against it.
This situation right here tells us he's not all about survival, and himself. He still has a moral center. His decision to not go through with it shows he's capable of feeling for another persons situation (Lori and Carl if they lose their husband/dad again)
The only thing that is absolutely obvious about Shane's character, is how much he cares about Carl, and Lori. And he's keeping his cool pretty damn well, considering he's all but lost Lori, and is slowly losing Carl.
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EPT
