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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. | ||
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UglyBastard
Germany53 Posts
On November 29 2011 11:10 Scarecrow wrote: You might wanna take a look at the big red warning at the top of the page before posting again. You might wanna not fullquote my post then, so it can't be concealed ever. Not even talking about the absolute mildness of these "spoilers" that happen way before they even reach the farm. | ||
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justsayinbro
307 Posts
great show tho, best episode to date. was it really the season 2 finale? | ||
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UglyBastard
Germany53 Posts
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
On November 29 2011 11:42 UglyBastard wrote: No, season 2 has 6 more episodes, but the series is going on a break and the remaining episodes will be aired in February 2012. lol, we can actually call this a season finale with this break | ||
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
Good episode though. Finally something happened! | ||
p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On November 29 2011 07:42 slyboogie wrote: I'm not sure what this show even wants to be. I know what I want it to be, basically a never ending zombie movie. Not some trite observance on the frailties of humanity in the face of catastrophe. Listen, this show does not have depth. Sorry. It's obvious that Shane is Jack, Rick is Ralph and Dale is Piggy. Andrea is some version of Roger and Carl is something like Simon, or eventually will be some subtle adequate balance of Rick and Shane. I haven't read the comic, but I've heard people swear to its greatness and insight. It's time to just say that this show is not its source material and just enjoy the zombies and guns. Pew pew pew. Your LotF comparisons mostly fit, though I don't really think that's the direction they're trying to go with Andrea. I'm not going to get into it ad nauseam but I'll just say I agree with the rest of your assessments. I need to let go of the expectations derived from the comics when I watch, but dammit, it's hard, they're just so good! | ||
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Wilshire States I think its called, first episode they find it and its all good and dandy, but it ends with the snow or whatever it was falling off and revealing the warning. Next episode all hell brokes loose and at least someone dies (I'm going for T-Dog), and they get on the road again with a renewed sense of peril. The next 5 episodes are a condensed version of what happen so far in season 2. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On November 29 2011 12:22 p4NDemik wrote: Your LotF comparisons mostly fit, though I don't really think that's the direction they're trying to go with Andrea. I'm not going to get into it ad nauseam but I'll just say I agree with the rest of your assessments. I need to let go of the expectations derived from the comics when I watch, but dammit, it's hard, they're just so good! Roger might be a bit harsh. She isn't a sadist. But she seems to enjoy killing, at least to some extent. And she certainly enjoys power or "prowess," might be a better word. Anyways, yeah, Roger =/= Andrea. | ||
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saocyn
United States937 Posts
On November 29 2011 10:50 Ripps wrote: I think one point worth making is that, in the worst of all possible post-apocalyptic worlds, there are still certain principles that some people place above "survival". Let's start with Rick. I think the very opening of the series sets up what type of character he is: he's a cop, a family man, a leader, etc. Some of his first lines are something like: "She said, 'sometimes I wonder if you even care about us at all?... I would never say something that cruel." I'm using these lines as an example because there's two things that I see going on with Rick's relationship with the audience lately. The first is that we wonder if he really does care about the family (and their safety) as much as Shane. The second thing that we see is that Rick is anything but cruel. He's a man of conscience (as Hershel said). He does what he thinks is just and moral. He holds ideas like the sanctity of life and the innocence of humans above all else (even survival). The complicating factor is that there's zombies everywhere and some of these principles are making choices harder. Then there's Shane. He only cares about two things: survival for himself and the Grimes family. The complicating factor is that he's throwing everything else by the wayside, including all those lofty principles I talked about before. I think the line where Dale says that Shane is meant for "this world" and the line where Shane says Rick isn't are watershed moments regarding some of the major themes going on. Rick is holding onto the principles which make him human even in the most difficult situations. Shane, on the other hand, has begun his descent into something else. You can tell by the way he walks. He's becoming a monster. All he cares about is: keep moving, keep surviving, and finding the next meal. In this regard, what separates him from the walking dead? If he loses his humanity, is he really alive at all? Some may argue that he wants Lori and Carl to himself, but is that really a principle? And what is he willing to do for that? What does is gain a man to profit the whole world, but lose his own soul? I think the whole thing is highly debateable, which is what makes the show so great. It makes you think about important questions and whether the ideas you hold are still valid in the worst of possible worlds. I don't mean to go and white-knight the whole situation, but as a kid from a military family and planning on going into the military himself, I think there are certain principles of humanity that should be placed above survival and above your own life like protection of the innocent, integrity, the law, etc.... all principles that Rick keeps fighting for. EDIT: Sorry about the wall of text, it just happens. maslow hierarchy of needs buddy, even rick will soon enough descend to where shane is if rick had been robbed of the needs of shane. while you could actually make an argument shane was scum to begin with lying about the fact rick was dead in the hospital, i think the fact shane was use to having a woman, taking care of carl and then losing that deprived him of his sanity then having his leadership questioned and put in place by rick was what broke him. if rick loses his girl and possibly his kid, you'll see that humanity go dark. | ||
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yakitate304
United States655 Posts
On November 29 2011 10:51 zoLo wrote: It was stated by Robert Kirkman on episode 2 of "Talking Dead" that they do not call them zombies because the concept of zombies never existed in their universe. Seems odd. The game "Portal" (2007) exists. Glenn's car, a 2009 Dodge Challenger exists. In 2008, Left 4 Dead came out. Y U NO MAKE ZOMBIE SHOW REALISTIC!?!? | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
last episode was fucking awesome, the show is getting awesome again!! will there be a short break or something? | ||
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Kuror
United States399 Posts
On November 29 2011 12:57 yakitate304 wrote: Seems odd. The game "Portal" (2007) exists. Glenn's car, a 2009 Dodge Challenger exists. In 2008, Left 4 Dead came out. Y U NO MAKE ZOMBIE SHOW REALISTIC!?!? I think because the idea of knowing about zombie epidemics in all these movies and shows and games, and then making a show where they say "Oh look it actually happened!" just seems a little weird. I mean, what's better? A group of people fighting strange creatures they've never seen before or fighting creatures that any person with access to society knows how to kill? | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On November 29 2011 12:57 yakitate304 wrote: Seems odd. The game "Portal" (2007) exists. Glenn's car, a 2009 Dodge Challenger exists. In 2008, Left 4 Dead came out. Y U NO MAKE ZOMBIE SHOW REALISTIC!?!? Those dates have nothing to do with that concept holding lol, zombie movies have been out for decades. It's just the idea of zombies never existed in this alternate world. | ||
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Ripps
Canada97 Posts
On November 29 2011 12:53 saocyn wrote: + Show Spoiler + maslow hierarchy of needs buddy, even rick will soon enough descend to where shane is if rick had been robbed of the needs of shane. while you could actually make an argument shane was scum to begin with lying about the fact rick was dead in the hospital, i think the fact shane was use to having a woman, taking care of carl and then losing that deprived him of his sanity then having his leadership questioned and put in place by rick was what broke him. i believe when you see rick lose the same things, his girl and possibly his kid, you'll see that humanity go dark. + Show Spoiler + wow you %*&@(%^(*@(**^!!! WHY THE *(&@#)^ WOULD YOU TELL ME THAT RICK LOSES HIS WIFE AND KID. I haven't read the comics. RARGH. There's a spoiler function for a reason, not to mention the giant red text all over this thread.... *sigh* EDIT: I shall not be returning to this thread. | ||
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saocyn
United States937 Posts
On November 29 2011 13:07 Ripps wrote: + Show Spoiler + wow you %*&@(%^(*@(**^!!! WHY THE *(&@#)^ WOULD YOU TELL ME THAT RICK LOSES HIS WIFE AND KID. I haven't read the comics. RARGH. There's a spoiler function for a reason, not to mention the giant red text all over this thread.... *sigh* EDIT: I shall not be returning to this thread. i actually didn't. i'm saying if rick loss the same thing he would be like shane is what i'm trying to explain. rick has alot to work with so he can uphold his values, shane doesn't so therefore he doesn't really have a humanity. | ||
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
On November 29 2011 13:07 Ripps wrote: + Show Spoiler + wow you %*&@(%^(*@(**^!!! WHY THE *(&@#)^ WOULD YOU TELL ME THAT RICK LOSES HIS WIFE AND KID. I haven't read the comics. RARGH. There's a spoiler function for a reason, not to mention the giant red text all over this thread.... *sigh* EDIT: I shall not be returning to this thread. + Show Spoiler [HUGE COMIC SPOILER] + ![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101209213508/walkingdead/images/thumb/1/14/WD-_012.jpg/250px-WD-_012.jpg) I smiled when that bitch finally got killed. | ||
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
On November 29 2011 12:57 yakitate304 wrote: Seems odd. The game "Portal" (2007) exists. Glenn's car, a 2009 Dodge Challenger exists. In 2008, Left 4 Dead came out. Y U NO MAKE ZOMBIE SHOW REALISTIC!?!? Just because those things came out in our world doesn't mean that they came out in theirs, just because he made a portal reference doesn't mean that everything else in this world is the same as in theirs... It's just that the concept and the idea of the "zombie" doesn't exist in the universe that they live in. | ||
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VediVeci
United States82 Posts
This forum is depressing though, people would really just kill Hershel? That's what the show is about as far as I can tell, the difference between surviving and keeping one's humanity. Its not about killing or curing the zombies as far as I can tell, they're essentially part of the setting. The show is about examining human nature under circumstances of extreme danger or duress. One aspect of this is Shane, the cold survivalist. He is tribal to the extreme, prizing the well being of "his people" above all else. Outsiders, ie Hershel and co., are treated with suspicion and hostility. He threatens Dale, nearly shoots Rick, and kills Otis to save himself. In normal society these would be inexcusable offenses, but since everything went to hell, the moral line is becoming blurred. Another side is Hershel. Like Shane, he acts out of primal, tribal instinct. Unlike Shane he tries to lead his tribe with compassion and morality, seemingly based in religion. He keeps the walkers in the barn because he loves them, or who they were. They were a part of his group, and where Shane would cut his losses and move on, Hershel holds on despite all evidence. His compassion his family and walkers does not extend to outsiders though. He views Rick's group not with outright hostility perhaps but with suspicion. He does what he considers his duty to them but endeavors to do no more, attempting to evict them from his land. It would be worthwhile to discuss all the characters in this vein, but for the sake of space the last one I'll do here is Rick. Rick comes closer than any other character, save perhaps Dale, to upholding the highest ideals of humanity. He is willing to put himself at risk for the well-being of others in a way Shane and Hershel are not, even if he has no particular bond to or affection for them, as he showed by going back into Atlanta for Meryll (sp?). At risk of rambling on too much, I'll limit myself to one other example. At the end of this episode, when the little girl walks out of the barn, he walks forward and shoots her. He had not taken part in the shooting of the other walkers, protesting vehemently against it, and working actively to bridge the divide between his group and Hershel's. However, the girl's appearance necessitates action. The others who participated in the shooting stand by and do nothing, revealing their own hypocrisy. When they were Hershel's zombies, they were walkers to be despised and shot. When it is one of their own facing them though, they cannot shoot. Their inability to see things this way earlier, from Hershel's perspective, reveals their unwillingness to engage with, and outright hostility towards, the other people (this is more true about Shane, it could be argued that the others shot because once the walkers were free there were no other options). Rick steps up and does the one thing most likely to allow reconciliation. He shows himself to be just in the application of the principles he has espoused and in doing so increased the possibilities of reconciliation. He brings people together, or tries to, in a way that no one else can. He leads in a principled and fair manner, and lifts those who he leads to be better, more human, rather than less. Oh boy that was long :-/ | ||
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FunkyLich
United States107 Posts
I don't understand why people give Shane so much credit for what he did in the last scene. Honestly, the most adequate description for his actions honestly was "childish". He's completely out of control. And to all the people calling it cahones, this is not difficult for him at all. He's not worried about the zombies getting close cause he has all the guns. The only thing you can really say he's got cahones for is maybe offending the few people in the group he might be worried about, which isn't much. Many or most of the people in that barn were Herschel's friends and family. Shane has absolutely zero regard for this. He kills every last one of them in hot blooded anger. At the very end of the scene suddenly the tables are turned when Sophia comes walking out. And all of a sudden Shane sobers up, and guess what? He can't bring himself to do it. He started this whole little massacre, and who comes in and finishes the job for him? Rick. It really makes you question what the real difference was between Rick and Shane regarding the issue of looking for Sophia in the first place. Maybe they both knew what to expect, the only major difference being Rick was ready to deal with it and Shane wasn't. You could argue yes, Shane had a more pragmatic interest in the survival of the group, but recent events tell us there was more going on. Particularly with the barn, her coming out and him not owning up. But also the petty little quarrels he has with Daryl. Daryl goes out to search on his own and Shane seems to even have a problem with that. I'm sure Shane would be happy to find her if she's alive and well, but he really does not want to have to deal with finding her if she's been bit. Rick on the other hand really took one for the team with what he did. He steps forward, raises his sights, and looks her dead in the eye when he pulls the trigger. There's not even a hint of cowering. We just see a man who knows exactly what he needs to do and calmly does it (Shane can hardly bare to look at her). That takes a lot of guts. And then after all is said and done, we see Herschel with his head in the dust. Everything the group has just experienced with Sophia has just happened tenfold with Herschel, who wasn't even given the mercy of watching his loved ones die to someone who actually cared. Carol probably does not resent Rick in the slightest, but just think about how you would feel if you were Herschel. It's pretty evident Shane couldn't give two shits about those people. I don't dislike Shane. He really does have his strong points. No one would have been able to do what he did to Otis at the school. There was no question in my mind that what he did was correct. If it were anyone else Carl would be dead for sure. What bothers me is that people don't realize how terribly he blundered in that last episode. He practically glorifies himself as this cold blooded pragmatist. But that last move of his was completely irrational and emotionally charged. And the way he does it just says a lot about himself as a leader. He doesn't try to rally any support from the group at all. He just dives in head first, opens the door, putting everyone in danger, and expects people to just grab the guns and help him do his dirty little deed. He does not wait for ANY group consensus whatsoever to carry out something that was not even urgent, and to top it off, he couldn't even finish what he started. | ||
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VediVeci
United States82 Posts
I just want to throw in my support of your view of Shane, except for the Otis bit. He definitely doesn't lead by inspiring people or appealing to their decency, he gives voice to a lot of really primal instincts that other people also feel, and so they rally to him as an expression of those fears, uncertainties and insecurities. That's painting in broad strokes I know, but nuance takes up stupidly large amounts of text... On another note, am I right in thinking that the night Shane killed Otis, Dale had left the RV on the freeway, on his own, to walk around or search for the girl or whatever, and that his whereabouts until he got back are completely unaccounted for? He nailed it when he said that Shane shot Otis, and I suppose that that isn't really an unreasonable guess but I can't shake the suspicion that he may have seen the whole thing? There had been alot of shooting by Shane and Otis previously and its not too implausible that Dale heard the shots and investigated I don't think. | ||
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