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On August 21 2019 19:34 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:32 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:28 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote:
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI. We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say. Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it. I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves. If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then. Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions. Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
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On August 21 2019 19:38 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:36 goody153 wrote:
anyways back to the game
who has the better draft ? i can't tell Who cares? Flash is maybe playing his last professional series right now.
waaaait flash is playing ? i didn't even know ASL is today
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On August 21 2019 19:39 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:32 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:28 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote:
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI. We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say. Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it. I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves. If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then. Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions. Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.
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Do people honestly think VP and Secret massively under performed at TI last year? If so what series do you feel they choked or under performed?
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On August 21 2019 19:43 CA Infraction wrote:
Do people honestly think VP and Secret massively under performed at TI last year? If so what series do you feel they choked or under performed?
I didn't think Secret underperformed. Liquid and LGD was looking extremely strong pre-TI rather than Secret.
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On August 21 2019 19:43 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:39 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:32 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:28 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote:
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI. We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say. Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it. I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves. If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then. Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions. Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers. Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works. You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.
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On August 21 2019 19:38 Rufus Dupres wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:32 goody153 wrote:
4anchors and 1 captain was where Matu was part of. Which was back when c9 got like 12-15 2nd places lol
So matu was already there around post-ti4. He had no success till around joining liquid with kuro Ok, but this can be said from nearly everyone mentioned on that list ana, w33haa, Miracle, Topson they all were playing for some teams before without having success. The only one coming out directly on a top team without having any stints on another Team before is actually Sumail(if Liquipedia is correct).
Sumail played for a bunch of NA teams before EG.
Actually everybody did but they're still considered new blood on how short their playtime with other teams before joining their team where they owned.
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On August 21 2019 19:42 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:38 nojok wrote:On August 21 2019 19:36 goody153 wrote:
anyways back to the game
who has the better draft ? i can't tell Who cares? Flash is maybe playing his last professional series right now. waaaait flash is playing ? i didn't even know ASL is today
Thanks for the heads up.
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On August 21 2019 19:45 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:43 CA Infraction wrote:
Do people honestly think VP and Secret massively under performed at TI last year? If so what series do you feel they choked or under performed? I didn't think Secret underperformed. Liquid and LGD was looking extremely strong pre-TI rather than Secret.
Implying you think VP did under preform? I agree secret I think was a clear tier below the top tier for last TI but VP lost to LGD which I think was a coin flip matchup and EG who showed they were absolutely on that level as well. Do you feel they shouldn't have lost to EG then?
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On August 21 2019 19:46 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:38 Rufus Dupres wrote:On August 21 2019 19:32 goody153 wrote:
4anchors and 1 captain was where Matu was part of. Which was back when c9 got like 12-15 2nd places lol
So matu was already there around post-ti4. He had no success till around joining liquid with kuro Ok, but this can be said from nearly everyone mentioned on that list ana, w33haa, Miracle, Topson they all were playing for some teams before without having success. The only one coming out directly on a top team without having any stints on another Team before is actually Sumail(if Liquipedia is correct). Sumail played for a bunch of NA teams before EG. Actually everybody did but they're still considered new blood on how short their playtime with other teams before joining their team where they owned.
Did sumail play for anyone notable teams that participated in tournaments outside of NA? Or was he just on different NA stacks basically?
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On August 21 2019 19:48 CA Infraction wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:46 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:38 Rufus Dupres wrote:On August 21 2019 19:32 goody153 wrote:
4anchors and 1 captain was where Matu was part of. Which was back when c9 got like 12-15 2nd places lol
So matu was already there around post-ti4. He had no success till around joining liquid with kuro Ok, but this can be said from nearly everyone mentioned on that list ana, w33haa, Miracle, Topson they all were playing for some teams before without having success. The only one coming out directly on a top team without having any stints on another Team before is actually Sumail(if Liquipedia is correct). Sumail played for a bunch of NA teams before EG. Actually everybody did but they're still considered new blood on how short their playtime with other teams before joining their team where they owned. Did sumail play for anyone notable teams that participated in tournaments outside of NA? Or was he just on different NA stacks basically?
no
he went from tralf team -> poached by eg
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On August 21 2019 19:45 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:43 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:39 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:32 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:28 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote:
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI. We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say. Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it. I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves. If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then. Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions. Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers. Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works. You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.
Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do.
Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight.
The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming.
Anyways this is a silly argument lol
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On August 21 2019 19:47 CA Infraction wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:45 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:43 CA Infraction wrote:
Do people honestly think VP and Secret massively under performed at TI last year? If so what series do you feel they choked or under performed? I didn't think Secret underperformed. Liquid and LGD was looking extremely strong pre-TI rather than Secret. Implying you think VP did under preform? I agree secret I think was a clear tier below the top tier for last TI but VP lost to LGD which I think was a coin flip matchup and EG who showed they were absolutely on that level as well. Do you feel they shouldn't have lost to EG then?
I don't actually remember VP's last year performance tbh lol
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That was a bad Warlock ult
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well, looks like another goodbye to TI for VP
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Vp is actually about to be eliminated by the most random team ever at TI9
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On August 21 2019 19:50 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:45 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:43 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:39 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:32 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:28 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote:
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI. We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say. Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it. I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves. If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then. Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions. Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers. Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works. You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic. Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do. Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight. The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming. Anyways this is a silly argument lol And I am not asking you to say anything, because I already answered the question. That you don't know why and argue you don't know, is just something you chose to do.
Secret and VP has dominated the scene for years, and as soon as they got to TI, they didn't deliver, and most of the time they sunk relative to their results throughout the yeah. That has a definite reason, that is well known in sports. Once they break that, it will be much easier for them to perform at TI.
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Its incredible how stupid are VP.
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On August 21 2019 19:53 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:50 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:45 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:43 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:39 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:32 Dracolich70 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:28 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote:
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI. We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say. Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it. I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves. If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then. Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions. Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers. Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works. You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic. Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do. Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight. The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming. Anyways this is a silly argument lol And I am not asking you to say anything, because I already answered the question. That you don't know why and argue you don't know, is just something you chose to do.
This is a forum. Participating here is naturally everybody asking to say something to somebody haha
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EPT
