On August 21 2019 19:47 CA Infraction wrote:
Implying you think VP did under preform? I agree secret I think was a clear tier below the top tier for last TI but VP lost to LGD which I think was a coin flip matchup and EG who showed they were absolutely on that level as well. Do you feel they shouldn't have lost to EG then?

I think VP just did not have the results they were aiming for. I mean as you said, they played against the strongest team at TI8(beside OG) in the first upper bracket round and meet a strong EG in the lower bracket. Same for TI7, they lost against LFY(which were playing the best Dota at that time) and being knocked out by Liquid.

Secret performed actually as expected at every TI except for TI5.

Dracolich70

Denmark3820 Posts

August 21 2019 10:56 GMT

#743

On August 21 2019 19:55 goody153 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 21 2019 19:53 Dracolich70 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:50 goody153 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:45 Dracolich70 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:43 goody153 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:39 Dracolich70 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:34 goody153 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:32 Dracolich70 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:28 goody153 wrote:

On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote:
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.

We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.

Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.

I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.

If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.

Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.

Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact

The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.

Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.

You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.

Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do.

Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight.

The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming.

Anyways this is a silly argument lol

And I am not asking you to say anything, because I already answered the question. That you don't know why and argue you don't know, is just something you chose to do.

This is a forum. Participating here is naturally everybody asking to say something to somebody haha

You are most welcome to say whatever you want. But you are basically making an argument based on not know the answer to the question of which I answered.

CA Infraction

United States170 Posts

August 21 2019 10:56 GMT

#744

Man what happened to noone? Feel like he use to be considered a top 5 mid player in the world and he has felt very underwhelming all of TI

FreakyDroid

Macedonia2616 Posts

August 21 2019 10:58 GMT

#745

bye bye VP

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

August 21 2019 10:58 GMT

#746

On August 21 2019 19:53 goody153 wrote:
Vp is actually about to be eliminated by the most random team ever at TI9

Well, RNG at least copies other teams. Not as clean about it, but it's safe and allows VP to throw themselves out of the tournament.

Tegenaria

France379 Posts

August 21 2019 10:59 GMT

#747

ROFL Void

FueledUpAndReadyToGo

Netherlands30548 Posts

August 21 2019 10:59 GMT

#748

This omninight is doing so much. VP can't get kills

Ufnal

Poland1435 Posts

August 21 2019 11:00 GMT

#749

So IMHO they basically lost because Gyro decided focusing omniknight was more important than focusing void.

goody153

44304 Posts

August 21 2019 11:00 GMT

#750

VP getting RNG'd lol

Zea!

9589 Posts

August 21 2019 11:00 GMT

#751

pizza party

FueledUpAndReadyToGo

Netherlands30548 Posts

August 21 2019 11:01 GMT

#752

Liquid should get Noone

goody153

44304 Posts

August 21 2019 11:01 GMT

#753

On August 21 2019 20:00 Zea! wrote:
pizza party

we just need TNC to beat Liquid then we will get a massive pizza party for all

woojaekeem

United States524 Posts

August 21 2019 11:02 GMT

#754

i think this is the end of this vp core lineup

Zea!

9589 Posts

August 21 2019 11:02 GMT

#755

well, the winner of Liquid vs Tnc is pretty much guaranteed top 6, not bad (about $ 1.200.000,00)

spudde123

4814 Posts

August 21 2019 11:03 GMT

#756

Secret's placing last year wasn't really below expectations. They did well early in that season but fell off a bit already well before TI. They weren't one of the big favorites going in anymore and finished 5th-6th losing to EG and TL in the bracket.

TI7 also not sure I'd say that was underperforming. They weren't one of the big favorites by any means and were pretty close to knocking out Liquid in the LB

TI6 obviously they were really bad after the Shanghai Major roster change but obviously going out in the bo1s was still disappointing. But I think the expectations already were not that high given how badly they had performed in the months leading up to it.

TI5 bracket performance was the one where they really had high expectations and didn't live up to them.

But of course it's fair to say that at least they've never overperformed compared to expectations

vommy

Germany532 Posts

August 21 2019 11:03 GMT

#757

What a game VP, jesus