On August 21 2019 05:30 plasmidghost wrote: OG and Secret should win 2-0, even though I would rather have the opposite. I do think RNG wins 2-1 and TNC Predator wins 2-0
i think newbee will put up a better fight than that. they've shown they could take at least a game off almost everyone they played.
On August 21 2019 05:30 plasmidghost wrote: OG and Secret should win 2-0, even though I would rather have the opposite. I do think RNG wins 2-1 and TNC Predator wins 2-0
i think newbee will put up a better fight than that. they've shown they could take at least a game off almost everyone they played.
Good point, the only team Newbee went 0-2 against was Secret, and they even took a game off LGD. I now think it could be 2-1 but still in OG's favor
In one of the previous IO games, OG didnt get a single bounty rune (only 1 at the 00:00 mark, literally) until the 20th minute. And still rolled the other team in the midgame
On August 21 2019 11:48 Sif_ wrote: In one of the previous IO games, OG didnt get a single bounty rune (only 1 at the 00:00 mark, literally) until the 20th minute. And still rolled the other team in the midgame
that's also true
seems they care more about Ana's timing than the overall networth of the team
On August 21 2019 11:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: In a groupstage game vs ana IO the other team also got like all the runes and then OG turned on and just won
On August 21 2019 11:52 goody153 wrote: i forgot that a bristleback with that much farm this early is absolutely hardcore
Io/Bristle is still viable with support Io. With the Io Aghs, and especially once the Heart comes out, I'm really not joking that Ana & Topson can probably 2v5 Newbee.
On August 21 2019 11:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: In a groupstage game vs ana IO the other team also got like all the runes and then OG turned on and just won
On August 21 2019 11:59 PhoenixVoid wrote: This is like watching an annoying well executed timing attack in StarCraft that wins you 90% of your ladder games.
On August 21 2019 12:02 Nantrix9 wrote: Not sure why people let them get the cheesy stuff. Just ban easy heroes and win game. Newbee was playing better and kinda lost to a cheese.
To compete at this level, you have to be able to beat things, but this literally is broken. Either ban it or pick it yourself.
On August 21 2019 12:02 Nantrix9 wrote: Not sure why people let them get the cheesy stuff. Just ban easy heroes and win game. Newbee was playing better and kinda lost to a cheese.
Not really a cheese. Cheese don't exist in dota cause everything is basically a cheese draft.
But yeah just ban that shit. I mean 2 teams already fell from that lineup just ban it
is it really the wisp? This bristle was completely uncountered in the draft and farmed at over 500gpm for 20 minutes, while they had mostly physical damage against an omni lineup (and the very little magical, namely tiny combo, was nullified by heals and rubick).
that's what i've been saying, it's not the wisp by itself that's broken but the overall strategies OG have made around it which have gone uncontested.
On August 21 2019 12:18 Shergal wrote: is it really the wisp? This bristle was completely uncountered in the draft and farmed at over 500gpm for 20 minutes, while they had mostly physical damage against an omni lineup (and the very little magical, namely tiny combo, was nullified by heals and rubick).
that's what i've been saying, it's not the wisp by itself that's broken but the overall strategies OG have made around it which have gone uncontested.
Carry Bristle can be dealt with, though Topson was having himself a game. What matters is that Io timing. You cannot win a team fight against it because no one has enough damage from range to avoid dying to the Balls. OG went pure cancer with this draft, though. The Omni just makes they actually unkillable.
But see the Game 2 vs NiP I linked earlier. It wasn't a great draft to support the Wisp and the timing turned around a 9k at 24 minute deficit.
On August 21 2019 12:18 Shergal wrote: is it really the wisp? This bristle was completely uncountered in the draft and farmed at over 500gpm for 20 minutes, while they had mostly physical damage against an omni lineup (and the very little magical, namely tiny combo, was nullified by heals and rubick).
that's what i've been saying, it's not the wisp by itself that's broken but the overall strategies OG have made around it which have gone uncontested.
Its what IO does to the game. Like Kyle would say, the hero probably has the biggest gravity in dota - you had Newbee focusing all their wards and 2-3 heroes inside Ana's jungle, and that allowed Topson to roam freely to farm and gank.
On August 21 2019 12:18 Shergal wrote: is it really the wisp? This bristle was completely uncountered in the draft and farmed at over 500gpm for 20 minutes, while they had mostly physical damage against an omni lineup (and the very little magical, namely tiny combo, was nullified by heals and rubick).
that's what i've been saying, it's not the wisp by itself that's broken but the overall strategies OG have made around it which have gone uncontested.
IO with so much farm makes the Bristle crazy.
A solo bristle carry wasn't that much of threat (tho topson did too well that just ran through everybody and too much farm) but with IO it just goes crazy. Like how gyro is not as crazy without IO
It's just that with IO there is actually timing to hit . Like a powerful timing that one of the cores don't die and IO is unignorable.
On August 21 2019 12:21 Taf the Ghost wrote: Carry Bristle can be dealt with, though Topson was having himself a game. What matters is that Io timing. You cannot win a team fight against it because no one has enough damage from range to avoid dying to the Balls.
can be dealt with, but they didn't. you deal with heroes like that at the draft, not by adjusting mid-game.
IO ball damage takes a long time to ramp up, because the balls recharge rather slowly. the problem with teams on all the IO games has been their inability to properly deal their damage (or their lack of damage altogether like just now), which is owed more to teamfight execution and overall lineup because wisp has no means to protect itself (it dies REALLY easily if you can zone in on him).
On August 21 2019 12:21 Taf the Ghost wrote: Carry Bristle can be dealt with, though Topson was having himself a game. What matters is that Io timing. You cannot win a team fight against it because no one has enough damage from range to avoid dying to the Balls.
can be dealt with, but they didn't. you deal with heroes like that at the draft, not by adjusting mid-game.
IO ball damage takes a long time to ramp up, because the balls recharge rather slowly. the problem with teams on all the IO games has been their inability to properly deal their damage (or their lack of damage altogether like just now), which is owed more to teamfight execution and overall lineup because wisp has no means to protect itself (it dies REALLY easily if you can zone in on him).
tether is one of the best escape tools and their wisp farms so hard that hes not weak at all relatively
On August 21 2019 12:33 TomatoBisque wrote: With just Aghs, the Wisp had 2k health at 20 minutes
Once he got Heart, he had over 3k
That is not a squishy hero
And Io turns your melee carry into a Racecar. That Game 2 against NiP was a Troll draft that was WAY behind, but NiP got ran over and troll took all of the towers. It's an ultra-late game support Io + massive extra damage at 25 minutes.
On August 21 2019 12:38 Kyir wrote: I don't think I've ever been so sick of a voice wheel so early into a TI. Why does Valve this garbage continue year after year?
Because what you don't like. Unfortunately many people like.
On August 21 2019 12:38 Kyir wrote: I don't think I've ever been so sick of a voice wheel so early into a TI. Why does Valve this garbage continue year after year?
On August 21 2019 13:06 Nantrix9 wrote: Makes so much sense for OG to dodge TNC and pick Newbee. OG looks decent, but you can tell their opponents are feeders.
On August 21 2019 13:06 Nantrix9 wrote: Makes so much sense for OG to dodge TNC and pick Newbee. OG looks decent, but you can tell their opponents are feeders.
On August 21 2019 13:06 plasmidghost wrote: OG vs LGD should be a sick matchup
if LGD also keeps upping their game(assuming they actually beat VG as VG is looking really sick as well) then we might actually possibly see a LGD vs OG rematch
On August 21 2019 13:33 Nantrix9 wrote: Finally! Team Secret time. Beat EG and then go smash those cheesy OG players.
i thought you rooting for east ?
I am rooting for east! But I would like to see how Nisha stacks up vs eastern carries. I think OG picks boring tanky heroes and don't care to watch games like that idk. Wisp isnt a fun carry to watch... Secret is the real opponent for the east. They have done well over the patches all year with multiple meta's. I dont really care for some random gimmick working just because of one patch. So beating OG feels like beating a patch team. No disrespect just my thoughts on it.
On August 21 2019 13:33 Nantrix9 wrote: Finally! Team Secret time. Beat EG and then go smash those cheesy OG players.
i thought you rooting for east ?
I am rooting for east! But I would like to see how Nisha stacks up vs eastern carries. I think OG picks boring tanky heroes and don't care to watch games like that idk. Wisp isnt a fun carry to watch... Secret is the real opponent for the east. They have done well over the patches all year with multiple meta's. I dont really care for some random gimmick working just because of one patch. So beating OG feels like beating a patch team. No disrespect just my thoughts on it.
OG didn't pick IO most of the time for carries but they still won most of the time tho. Hmm
On August 21 2019 13:57 Nantrix9 wrote: Sure, but they have been bad all year. I like teams that always show up. Not one trick ponies that need stars to align for them to be decent.
On August 21 2019 13:57 Nantrix9 wrote: Sure, but they have been bad all year. I like teams that always show up. Not one trick ponies that need stars to align for them to be decent.
You have to realize that the entire year is just a training ground for all teams. Nobody is trying harder than at TI.
Unless we something like a CSGO circuit then i understand your perspective but the way dota scene works is that TI is the only tournament that matters. The price and prestige disparity is just insanely far to all the tournaments all year.
So if you show up at TI then you show up at the tournament that matters. That just means you are better when it matters the most.
In another analogy. It doesn't matter if you are doing well on the practices or casual sparrings if you aren't gonna perform at the event proper.
On August 21 2019 14:02 Achaian wrote: is crowd audio even on? ok there we go, they were waiting for blood
alright this crowd audio is so weird it's like they're letting it cut in and out. very strange
I wouldn't be surprised if they are only turning on the crowd audio when they cheer because people were complaining about hearing the Chinese casters in the background or something
On August 21 2019 14:02 Achaian wrote: is crowd audio even on? ok there we go, they were waiting for blood
alright this crowd audio is so weird it's like they're letting it cut in and out. very strange
I'm wondering if they've got somebody manually turning up the crowd sounds at hype moments (and doing a kind of bad job of it).
Early in yesterday's stream, there were audio issues where you could clearly hear the Chinese commentators on the English stream. That was annoying, but if I remember right the crowd sounded normal. Then they fixed the audio bleed, but ever since then the crowd sounds have cut in and out oddly.
On August 21 2019 14:02 Achaian wrote: is crowd audio even on? ok there we go, they were waiting for blood
alright this crowd audio is so weird it's like they're letting it cut in and out. very strange
I wouldn't be surprised if they are only turning on the crowd audio when they cheer because people were complaining about hearing the Chinese casters in the background or something
On August 21 2019 14:02 Achaian wrote: is crowd audio even on? ok there we go, they were waiting for blood
alright this crowd audio is so weird it's like they're letting it cut in and out. very strange
I'm wondering if they've got somebody manually turning up the crowd sounds at hype moments (and doing a kind of bad job of it).
Early in yesterday's stream, there were audio issues where you could clearly hear the Chinese commentators on the English stream. That was annoying, but if I remember right the crowd sounded normal. Then they fixed the audio bleed, but ever since then the crowd sounds have cut in and out oddly.
Yea I'd rather have the original audio. This one sounds so artificial, like they even make it seem like LGD received 2-second applause when they came out of the booth.
On August 21 2019 14:21 goody153 wrote: crit is apparently a really good WR
when you have maelstrom on a support wr this early in the game, you don't so much play dota after using ult + windrun so much as play DDR just dodging damage and stuns while noscoping tons of damage
On August 21 2019 14:47 Taf the Ghost wrote: EG got the team fight they needed before Secret had a full slate of BKBs. Shutting down Midone really made that game for EG.
Secret were back on winning, until MidOne got needlessly caught again, and it started to swing again, because Secret were very sloppy, and EG were aggressive. Some of those fights could have gonna very differently, but EG held their tongue. They also rightly abused that Secret put so many eggs in Nisha's basket.
On August 21 2019 14:50 Circumstance wrote: This is Secret's fifth TI, and not the first time they've come in as the overall favorites either. 5-6 last year was their best placement ever.
On August 21 2019 14:47 Taf the Ghost wrote: EG got the team fight they needed before Secret had a full slate of BKBs. Shutting down Midone really made that game for EG.
Secret were back on winning, until MidOne got needlessly caught again, and it started to swing again, because Secret were very sloppy, and EG were aggressive. Some of those fights could have gonna very differently, but EG held their tongue. They also rightly abused that Secret put so many eggs in Nisha's basket.
Tiny really needs a snowball if you're playing it as a Mid, but Secret wasn't playing that well after about 15 minutes. EG finally remembered they had all of that control and got the right team fight.
Solid game all around, but Secret needs to protect Midone a little better.
Also, exactly what they want. A good chronosphere with freezing field. Nisha doing really good so far, zai needs to step in for Secret to ramp up this game.
Game is not easy for Zai, he can't use BH at all unless his teammates can control the Rubick. And Midone is again at a point where he is too weak to walk around the fight and just has to hide somewhere
Nisha has to chrono Cr1t and Fly to make their teamfights work....such a hard Void game, midone does not dish out the damage to kill one of the cores inside chrono.
On August 21 2019 15:58 babysimba wrote: Still think it's easier for Secret to execute at this point of the game. Last fight was just a fuck up.
Fly is outwarding Puppey, and that's really the difference in the game.
yeah this, EG literally initiated every single fight with ravage on top of the Invoker meanwhile secret randomly ran uphill towards a shrine scrambling to find a single hero to chrono
On August 21 2019 15:58 babysimba wrote: Still think it's easier for Secret to execute at this point of the game. Last fight was just a fuck up.
Fly is outwarding Puppey, and that's really the difference in the game.
yeah this, EG literally initiated every single fight with ravage on top of the Invoker meanwhile secret randomly ran uphill towards a shrine scrambling to find a single hero to chrono
Among the top teams, especially at TI, the Warding Battle Winner normally wins the game. One well placed ward can win you a tournament.
As a Secret fan [and an EG fan but more Secret], that was fun. :D
This was the first game I caught, how was game 1 and the first series? Is it worth to check the replays out later? I don't even know who won the first series so I can be surprised
One thought on Secret's approach: having the "we win the Roshan Fight" lineup against EG is a pretty solid approach. EG and Roshan fights has a history.
Really need a replay of the last fight to see what the fuck happened with Sven's blink that he was blocked on the other side of fissure being unable to hit anybody
On August 21 2019 16:38 Shergal wrote: Really need a replay of the last fight to see what the fuck happened with Sven's blink that he was blocked on the other side of fissure being unable to hit anybody
alright so Sven had no blink but he also had ult on CD for like 40 sec. So that was what won them the game. If he could hit that hexed Void with ult, he dies and doesn't end up on the other side of the river making EG unintentionally clump up chasing him
On August 21 2019 16:42 Shergal wrote: alright so Sven had no blink but he also had ult on CD for like 40 sec. So that was what won them the game. If he could hit that hexed Void with ult, he dies and doesn't end up on the other side of the river making EG unintentionally clump up chasing him
he hit void like once the entire fight and it was after his entire team was dead
and he didn't have ult because he used it to force void's BB in the first place
Man EG mental side is going to be tested now , they had such a good chance to knock Secret out , now I believe Secret will feel much more confident and EG will have all the pressure on them! Going to be a secret stomp under 30 min or a close game again , not seeing EG steamrolling this one now.
On August 21 2019 16:42 Shergal wrote: alright so Sven had no blink but he also had ult on CD for like 40 sec. So that was what won them the game. If he could hit that hexed Void with ult, he dies and doesn't end up on the other side of the river making EG unintentionally clump up chasing him
he hit void like once the entire fight and it was after his entire team was dead
and he didn't have ult because he used it to force void's BB in the first place
that was my point... he couldn't even get to void because he had no blink and a fissure was in the way
and the other point i guess should be props to Secret for managing to find such a quick re-initiation, or if you want to be mean shame on EG for sticking around without their second biggest spell
On August 21 2019 16:42 Shergal wrote: alright so Sven had no blink but he also had ult on CD for like 40 sec. So that was what won them the game. If he could hit that hexed Void with ult, he dies and doesn't end up on the other side of the river making EG unintentionally clump up chasing him
he hit void like once the entire fight and it was after his entire team was dead
and he didn't have ult because he used it to force void's BB in the first place
that was my point... he couldn't even get to void because he had no blink and a fissure was in the way
and the other point i guess should be props to Secret for managing to find such a quick re-initiation, or if you want to be mean shame on EG for sticking around without their second biggest spell
EG was likely trying to press their advantage since Secret had no buybacks. EG was more aggressive the whole game while Secret was playing very passively
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
On August 21 2019 16:58 Sabu113 wrote: Enchant is so great.
How big was teh SD last game?
SD is just overall a great hero, Demonic Purge is very useful ability and gets insane if the game goes longer with Aghanim, Disruption is great setup/lifesaver ability, Shadow Poison stacks ramp up in fights and can be a great scouting ability, he also has one of the most balanced abilities in the entire Dota, Soul Catcher.
I am surprised it took teams this long to start picking Shadow Demon, he seems like miles ahead compared to some other supports that see the constant play.
This Ember pick with linkens will be difficult to catch for secret. Overall good draft for both teams but EG laning is probably not great with the magnus support
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Comparingto OG who beat... whom exactly? The only really strong teams they played were EG (who looked much shakier than both groupstage Secret and current EG) and VG (which was a non-serious game since both were qualified).
It's hard to say how TI will go yet, while OG looks the most impressive they haven't really demonstrated that prowess against the other favorites yet.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Comparingto OG who beat... whom exactly? The only really strong teams they played were EG (who looked much shakier than both groupstage Secret and current EG) and VG (which was a non-serious game since both were qualified).
It's hard to say how TI will go yet, while OG looks the most impressive they haven't really demonstrated that prowess against the other favorites yet.
Eh VG is a really strong team. You saying that group A teams are better is not really an argument for Secret being better than OG when the results have been really clear so far who is owning.
Even Secret was having a reaaaaally difficult time against newbee but OG just styled on newbee if that is one of the "favorites" you mean. That's how "solid" Secret is compared to OG
Of course this is merely for discussion we will find out later who is actually better at the playoffs(assuming they meet.)
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Its like in boxing , once you face the elite its where it counts , taking NEWBEE apart is not a feat that put them that far away from the competition , are they good ? sure , are they far away from the pack ? NO WAY.
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Its like in boxing , once you face the elite its where it counts , taking NEWBEE apart is not a feat that put them that far away from the competition , are they good ? sure , are they far away from the pack ? NO WAY.
You didn't seem to watch the group stages. Secret almost lost to newbee twice. Like it was so damn close.
OG practically ran through Newbee like they weren't even worth the time.
Rewatch the group stages. You wouldn't say the same if you actually have seen all games from both teams (which i did cause i was really dedicated this TI lol i mean i wasn't gonna miss another TI because of RL obligations )
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Its like in boxing , once you face the elite its where it counts , taking NEWBEE apart is not a feat that put them that far away from the competition , are they good ? sure , are they far away from the pack ? NO WAY.
You didn't seem to watch the group stages. Secret almost lost to newbee twice. Like it was so damn close.
OG practically ran through Newbee like they weren't even worth the time.
Rewatch the group stages.
So are you saying that you expect OG to roll this TI? I say they lose to Secret next series , cya soon!!!
Eh VG is a really strong team. You saying that group A teams are better is not really an argument for Secret being better than OG when the results have been really clear so far who is owning.
Even Secret was having a reaaaaally difficult time against newbee but OG just styled on newbee if that is one of the "favorites" you mean. That's how "solid" Secret is compared to OG
Of course this is merely for discussion we will find out later who is actually better at the playoffs(assuming they meet.)
I know VG is strong, I'm saying their game was pretty irrelevant much like LGD vs Secret.
And I don't subscribe to the tic-tac-toe view where we compare two teams playing the third one as a "benchmark" to see which was more solid. Matchups are a thing (evidence being how different same-region matches feel compared to international matches). OG might be able to dimantle Newbee but that's owed a lot to Newbee's inability to grasp and counter their strategy, and we don't know if that applies to Secret, LGD or VG. Hell, even EG if they win this series: pros are always talking about how teams evolve throughout long tournaments to a point where comparing groupstage to later playoffs rounds is pointless.
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Its like in boxing , once you face the elite its where it counts , taking NEWBEE apart is not a feat that put them that far away from the competition , are they good ? sure , are they far away from the pack ? NO WAY.
You didn't seem to watch the group stages. Secret almost lost to newbee twice. Like it was so damn close.
OG practically ran through Newbee like they weren't even worth the time.
Rewatch the group stages.
So are you saying that you expect OG to roll this TI? I say they lose to Secret next series , cya soon!!!
I pretty much don't care if OG or Secret wins next series(as it seems Secret is gonna win this series considering how tilted EG seems to be playing lol) but i am arguing about how clearly you haven't seen the group stages but made remarks about Secret being far more "solid" than OG has been.
If you have you would have different thoughts about the games.
Obviously we will never know till the real series is played but saying Secret is the actual best team so far is not actually a thing. (it is possible but as we have seen so far nope)
The problem with Secret isn't about not knowing how to play or win. It's about giving in to the pressure of TI and playing differently from their usual. They might wake up anytime in the tournament. Their potential to win TI is still there, and still rather high chances I would say. They are not like EG or Liquid who still have inherent problems in their gameplay.
Eh VG is a really strong team. You saying that group A teams are better is not really an argument for Secret being better than OG when the results have been really clear so far who is owning.
Even Secret was having a reaaaaally difficult time against newbee but OG just styled on newbee if that is one of the "favorites" you mean. That's how "solid" Secret is compared to OG
Of course this is merely for discussion we will find out later who is actually better at the playoffs(assuming they meet.)
I know VG is strong, I'm saying their game was pretty irrelevant much like LGD vs Secret.
And I don't subscribe to the tic-tac-toe view where we compare two teams playing the third one as a "benchmark" to see which was more solid. Matchups are a thing (evidence being how different same-region matches feel compared to international matches). OG might be able to dimantle Newbee but that's owed a lot to Newbee's inability to grasp and counter their strategy, and we don't know if that applies to Secret, LGD or VG. Hell, even EG if they win this series: pros are always talking about how teams evolve throughout long tournaments to a point where comparing groupstage to later playoffs rounds is pointless.
Ah well ofc that's just us theorycrafting who is going to beat who
On August 21 2019 17:25 babysimba wrote: The problem with Secret isn't about not knowing how to play or win. It's about giving in to the pressure of TI and playing differently from their usual. They might wake up anytime in the tournament. Their potential to win TI is still there, and still rather high chances I would say. They are not like EG or Liquid who still have inherent problems in their gameplay.
Idk if Liquid gains momentum they can suddenly run through everybody. We have seen it happen (that was when matu was still there but i don't think it is that different).
Liquid and Secret are pretty much on the same boat at just randomly winning the entire tournament.
On August 21 2019 17:25 babysimba wrote: The problem with Secret isn't about not knowing how to play or win. It's about giving in to the pressure of TI and playing differently from their usual. They might wake up anytime in the tournament. Their potential to win TI is still there, and still rather high chances I would say. They are not like EG or Liquid who still have inherent problems in their gameplay.
Idk if Liquid gains momentum they can suddenly run through everybody. We have seen it happen (that was when matu was still there but i don't think it is that different).
Liquid and Secret are pretty much on the same boat at just randomly winning the entire tournament.
Liquid feels like they have more problems than just playing scared or under pressure. The team is just super uncoordinated and plays like they have no plan beyond "Miracle 1v5" half the time
On August 21 2019 17:25 babysimba wrote: The problem with Secret isn't about not knowing how to play or win. It's about giving in to the pressure of TI and playing differently from their usual. They might wake up anytime in the tournament. Their potential to win TI is still there, and still rather high chances I would say. They are not like EG or Liquid who still have inherent problems in their gameplay.
Idk if Liquid gains momentum they can suddenly run through everybody. We have seen it happen (that was when matu was still there but i don't think it is that different).
Liquid and Secret are pretty much on the same boat at just randomly winning the entire tournament.
Liquid feels like they have more problems than just playing scared or under pressure. The team is just super uncoordinated and plays like they have no plan beyond "Miracle 1v5" half the time
How well did they do yesterday against Fnatic ? I kinda didn't bother cause i knew Fnatic was gonna lose like that team is in the same state as last year with not having a fight in them lol
On August 21 2019 17:25 babysimba wrote: The problem with Secret isn't about not knowing how to play or win. It's about giving in to the pressure of TI and playing differently from their usual. They might wake up anytime in the tournament. Their potential to win TI is still there, and still rather high chances I would say. They are not like EG or Liquid who still have inherent problems in their gameplay.
Idk if Liquid gains momentum they can suddenly run through everybody. We have seen it happen (that was when matu was still there but i don't think it is that different).
Liquid and Secret are pretty much on the same boat at just randomly winning the entire tournament.
Liquid feels like they have more problems than just playing scared or under pressure. The team is just super uncoordinated and plays like they have no plan beyond "Miracle 1v5" half the time
How well did they do yesterday against Fnatic ? I kinda didn't bother cause i knew Fnatic was gonna lose lol
idk I was asleep, from what I read fnatic fucked up a bit, airballed some black holes
On August 21 2019 16:37 goody153 wrote: as sick as secret was
i want eg to win so that we can get another EG vs OG .. and repeat TI8
This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Its like in boxing , once you face the elite its where it counts , taking NEWBEE apart is not a feat that put them that far away from the competition , are they good ? sure , are they far away from the pack ? NO WAY.
You didn't seem to watch the group stages. Secret almost lost to newbee twice. Like it was so damn close.
OG practically ran through Newbee like they weren't even worth the time.
Rewatch the group stages.
So are you saying that you expect OG to roll this TI? I say they lose to Secret next series , cya soon!!!
I pretty much don't care if OG or Secret wins next series(as it seems Secret is gonna win this series considering how tilted EG seems to be playing lol) but i am arguing about how clearly you haven't seen the group stages but made remarks about Secret being far more "solid" than OG has been.
If you have you would have different thoughts about the games.
Obviously we will never know till the real series is played but saying Secret is the actual best team so far is not actually a thing. (it is possible but as we have seen so far nope)
I didn't say you care about OG winning or Secret , I just think that you are stating things without seeing the bigger picture that's all , if you believe OG are far ahead of the competition due to the group stage and a Newbee win , then you are missing the point , I would STILL put LGD and Secret above OG due to a year of consistency and their ability to win when it matters. I never said Secret is the best thing , they are on the Elite and there is no clear best team yet , I would wait for the titan to clash before I can decide who is the best team this TI , too early in the playoff to decide.
Again , If I would bet my house on the next series it would be Secret to win , you think OG are the favourites , and that's fine and not unreasonable to believe , again my opinion is that they didn't do enough yet to warrant the title "favourites".
On August 21 2019 16:48 RubickPicker wrote: [quote] This is like the people who kept talking about “el classico” as Alliance and then Navi went to rot.
I don’t dislike Secret but OG will steamroll either of these teams.
There is 0 reason to believe OG will steamroll Secret/EG , mainly Secret which are very consistent and solid team.
Sure if you haven't seen Secret and OG playing this TI since and only basing it pre-TI. Actually pre-TI liquid and VP are pretty crazy. Look at them now
Secret has looked very solid this Ti as well and same for EG after the first 2 days of groups.
Looked solid but we are comparing to OG here. If we weren't well i do agree
Otherwise no fucking way that looks solid(secret almost lost to 4 lategames against random teams). And EG's last two days was still shaky as hell despite managing to get into upperbracket
The quality of how solid they are compared to OG is so damn far.
Its like in boxing , once you face the elite its where it counts , taking NEWBEE apart is not a feat that put them that far away from the competition , are they good ? sure , are they far away from the pack ? NO WAY.
You didn't seem to watch the group stages. Secret almost lost to newbee twice. Like it was so damn close.
OG practically ran through Newbee like they weren't even worth the time.
Rewatch the group stages.
So are you saying that you expect OG to roll this TI? I say they lose to Secret next series , cya soon!!!
I pretty much don't care if OG or Secret wins next series(as it seems Secret is gonna win this series considering how tilted EG seems to be playing lol) but i am arguing about how clearly you haven't seen the group stages but made remarks about Secret being far more "solid" than OG has been.
If you have you would have different thoughts about the games.
Obviously we will never know till the real series is played but saying Secret is the actual best team so far is not actually a thing. (it is possible but as we have seen so far nope)
will be a good series for sure!!!!!!
That i agree. Or so i hope as i am kinda disappointed with EG now i just want secret to win.
Also both teams have a tendency to run over the other team with style so i hope that doesn't happen. I just want a tight series dude
On August 21 2019 17:25 babysimba wrote: The problem with Secret isn't about not knowing how to play or win. It's about giving in to the pressure of TI and playing differently from their usual. They might wake up anytime in the tournament. Their potential to win TI is still there, and still rather high chances I would say. They are not like EG or Liquid who still have inherent problems in their gameplay.
Idk if Liquid gains momentum they can suddenly run through everybody. We have seen it happen (that was when matu was still there but i don't think it is that different).
Liquid and Secret are pretty much on the same boat at just randomly winning the entire tournament.
Liquid feels like they have more problems than just playing scared or under pressure. The team is just super uncoordinated and plays like they have no plan beyond "Miracle 1v5" half the time
Liquid is in a sad state right now. It's a shame because they seemed to play with their next 3 moves in mind before. Some people disliked their shallow heropool when they were at the top whereas not a single player was wasting a second, it was a brutal mechanic which could win even after the most terrible laning phase. Truly the best dota of the last 3 years imo.
man this lyrical guy just doesn't understand hype. he screams like mad for really inconsequential stuff and sometimes is late to react to the real shit. this should make people see what tobi brings to casts that others aren't nearly as good at (including odpixel)
Tbh Secret's teamfight is pretty bad. Not sure I agree with MidOne playing without an initiation item. You can't just rely on Zai jumping in and stunning everyone without someone else creating some chaos
Secret heroes are the type that do not have high dps and like sustained fights. It's pretty bad against EG high burst + RP, unless Secret can pickoff mag first.
Secret heroes do have the tools to split the map open though.
On August 21 2019 17:49 Zea! wrote: well guys, can't deny that the rematch EG vs OG is absolutely super HYPE, better than anime (LGD will win it all anyway lul)
On August 21 2019 17:53 Ej_ wrote: If only Puppey knew to draft the proper heroes, and not "garbage" ones. Maybe Secret should replace SunBhie with a LiquidDota forum poster?
ME jk
Idk i liked secret draft better but didn't expect EG to just roll during their timing
On August 21 2019 17:53 Ej_ wrote: If only Puppey knew to draft the proper heroes, and not "garbage" ones. Maybe Secret should replace SunBhie with a LiquidDota forum poster?
ME jk
Idk i liked secret draft better but didn't expect EG to just roll during their timing
secret draft looked like "run into your face draft" but all they did was split around the map and let ember and PA farm all game. idk what slark did whole game with all that gargantuan networth
On August 21 2019 17:49 goody153 wrote: Graaant with the rant damn hahahaha
i expected that from grant on the panel after that sick EG comeback
It's great, much better than a dude faking neutrality when he's obviously biased af.
Grant is such a treasure. This is what is great about him on panel or casting when it came to his favorite teams lol
I used to hate him but he worked hard, he used to spout obscure NA memes all the time like if he was casting on a small twitch channel associated with a huge biased towards NA teams. Now he's one of the best, he kept the best parts of his NA pride and threw the worst and his casting improved a lot.
On August 21 2019 17:49 goody153 wrote: Graaant with the rant damn hahahaha
i expected that from grant on the panel after that sick EG comeback
Grandgrant is a national treasure
On August 21 2019 17:51 nojok wrote:
On August 21 2019 17:49 goody153 wrote: Graaant with the rant damn hahahaha
i expected that from grant on the panel after that sick EG comeback
It's great, much better than a dude faking neutrality when he's obviously biased af.
Grant is such a treasure. This is what is great about him on panel or casting when it came to his favorite teams lol
I used to hate him but he worked hard, he used to spout obscure NA memes all the time like if he was casting on a small twitch channel associated with a huge biased towards NA teams. Now he's one of the best, he kept the best parts of his NA pride and threw the worst and his casting improved a lot.
He absolutely did. I was actually pretty sad each time he didn't get invited on TI.
I mean he is a very fun caster like he actually really really likes casting which is such a breath of fresh air. He just want some dotes making his casting just natural and fun
On August 21 2019 18:06 Stancel wrote: crazy how lanm's still doing his thing in TI
meanwhile MMY plays professional pve in WoW
'MMY' ..now that's a name i havent heard since a long time. i still think he was a better support player than LaNm. sad he switched to other games. but , i think LGD's drama broke him.
On August 21 2019 18:06 Stancel wrote: crazy how lanm's still doing his thing in TI
meanwhile MMY plays professional pve in WoW
'MMY' ..now that's a name i havent heard since a long time. i still think he was a better support player than LaNm. sad he switched to other games. but , i think LGD's drama broke him.
I think it was kind of like DK disbanded and he still wasn’t ready to leave.
On August 21 2019 18:42 goody153 wrote: come on RNG bring out the RNG and give us an upset
RNG got 6 wins in groups, 4 of those were Navi & NiP throwing themselves out of the games. Though RNG did beat VP in one game. Neither team is really playing above their group stage level, but VP is the much better team.
On August 21 2019 18:56 babysimba wrote: Alright VP is going to tilt and disband lol
I mean that's expected right now, they are too long together already and for some time don't show great results compared to run that they had in 2018. Maybe not disband, but I expect them to change at least 2 players.
Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes anymore.
Or you could argue teams are more drilled to stay together, fighting adversity. ValvE at large chose to make it really hard for lesser teams to break in, thus most of the money is floating upwards, and congested to a select few tournaments.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes anymore.
There's always new blood or old blood that didn't get a chance. Each year we still have random new players (VG has new players, mineski as well and then do you remember topson and nisha).
There's plenty of new blood. This is not broodwar or starcraft 2 youknow. Alot of teams now have like a new player from that is like super new to the proscene
On August 21 2019 19:03 FreakyDroid wrote: Well EU and CIS are long overdue for a major reshuffle.
Yeah. If TNC manages to crush Liquid again too.
We are gonna see it happen bigtime.
I think that if TL wins against TNC and get through the next LB team (RNG/VP), they will face EG or OG and they will loose to either of those 2 teams. In any case that will be a bad result for them so I do expect them to change roster anyways.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes anymore.
Or you could argue teams are more drilled to stay together, fighting adversity.
Alot of teams learned from the top western teams strategy to just sit tight and work through their issues. Compared to before where teams just kick and disband left and right.
Now the normal strat is stick together even under difficulty.
On August 21 2019 19:03 FreakyDroid wrote: Well EU and CIS are long overdue for a major reshuffle.
Yeah. If TNC manages to crush Liquid again too.
We are gonna see it happen bigtime.
I think that if TL wins against TNC and get through the next LB team (RNG/VP), they will face EG or OG and they will loose to either of those 2 teams. In any case that will be a bad result for them so I do expect them to change roster anyways.
Same thing i thought if they manage to go through TNC. They are certainly gonna change a player or two for sure from the looks of things regardless of the result
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes anymore.
Or you could argue teams are more drilled to stay together, fighting adversity.
Alot of teams learned from the top western teams strategy to just sit tight and work through their issues. Compared to before where teams just kick and disband left and right.
Now the normal strat is stick together even under difficulty.
OK well thats a good point, but TL already showed that they are willing to swap out player[s] and right before TI. As for VP, well they've had no success on TI's for what. 4th year? So I dunno if this will hold true this year, I think we're in for a major reshuffle.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes anymore.
Or you could argue teams are more drilled to stay together, fighting adversity.
Alot of teams learned from the top western teams strategy to just sit tight and work through their issues. Compared to before where teams just kick and disband left and right.
Now the normal strat is stick together even under difficulty.
OK well thats a good point, but TL already showed that they are willing to swap out player[s] and right before TI. As for VP, well they've had no success on TI's for what. 4th year? So I dunno if this will hold true this year, I think we're in for a major reshuffle.
VP is definitely gonna lose a player or two. They don't seem to have the alliance/OG style of inteam chemistry that they are fostering.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes.
new blood Topson just won TI last year
Nisha is also destroying this year. Then we have those VG new bloods. There is actually so many new players each year.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes anymore.
Or you could argue teams are more drilled to stay together, fighting adversity.
Alot of teams learned from the top western teams strategy to just sit tight and work through their issues. Compared to before where teams just kick and disband left and right.
Now the normal strat is stick together even under difficulty.
Yeah, exactly, and this stability causes it to be hard for other teams to break in, with the limited spots, and top tournaments lesser teams can participate in. Dota 2 has suffered because ValvE has ignored EU and CIS, to stimulate NA, SEA, China, and now South America. Which has caused some positives for those regions, but the thriving regions of EU and CIS has long since reached its zenith, because minor tournaments are at large irrelevant and without top participation.
On August 21 2019 19:17 Rufus Dupres wrote: GH was also relatively fresh when coming into TI7, basically you are having every year some players making their entrance onto the big stage.
I literally forgot GH. Topson too both won TI at their entry year.
On August 21 2019 19:17 Rufus Dupres wrote: GH was also relatively fresh when coming into TI7, basically you are having every year some players making their entrance onto the big stage.
But they are essentially just players that are poached by some of the top teams. OG is responsible for most of them; Ana, Topson, Cr1t-, and Miracle-.
On August 21 2019 19:07 babysimba wrote: Sadly, this game is on a slow death and there are almost no more new blood coming in anymore. Don't know if any new teams can challenge those top teams that only do minor roster changes.
new blood Topson just won TI last year
And 7uckingMad was recycled after many years on the coaching bench, almost counts as a new face.
On August 21 2019 19:17 Rufus Dupres wrote: GH was also relatively fresh when coming into TI7, basically you are having every year some players making their entrance onto the big stage.
But they are essentially just players that are poached by some of the top teams. OG is responsible for most of them; Ana, Topson, Cr1t-, and Miracle-.
Nisha, Ace, CCNC, 33, Abed, DJ.
Plenty of other teams have managed to gain new blood and not just OG lol Crit isn't even new afaik
To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI. It is also harder to change something, when you have been successful throughout most of the year, and maintain hunger.
On August 21 2019 19:23 Dracolich70 wrote: But they are essentially just players that are poached by some of the top teams. OG is responsible for most of them; Ana, Topson, Cr1t-, and Miracle-.
GH poached? From whom?
Every team created a bunch of star players. Matu and MC can also be added to Liquid.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
On August 21 2019 19:17 Rufus Dupres wrote: GH was also relatively fresh when coming into TI7, basically you are having every year some players making their entrance onto the big stage.
But they are essentially just players that are poached by some of the top teams. OG is responsible for most of them; Ana, Topson, Cr1t-, and Miracle-.
Nisha, Ace, CCNC, 33, Abed, DJ.
Plenty of other teams have managed to gain new blood and not just OG lol Crit isn't even new afaik
It's a matter of cycling out the players that are "okay" but has been figured out and bringing in someone hungry enough to put in the work.
Biggest change, which no one has mentioned, is Coaches being able to Draft. That changed everything in the scene. There are only about 6 good drafters playing at any time, but there's a good chunk more coach-class guys around that can draft by don't have the playing skill. That normalized the scene a lot. Especially as your captain isn't blamed for a bad draft anymore.
On August 21 2019 19:23 Dracolich70 wrote: But they are essentially just players that are poached by some of the top teams. OG is responsible for most of them; Ana, Topson, Cr1t-, and Miracle-.
GH poached? From whom?
Every time created a bunch of star players. Matu and MC can also be added to Liquid.
Matu is actually not new. He was waaay back during the c9 owning era(that's like 5-6 years ago)
And he not mentioning the original new blood poucher. EG and Secret with w33ha, Suma1l, arteezy etc
On August 21 2019 19:23 Dracolich70 wrote: But they are essentially just players that are poached by some of the top teams. OG is responsible for most of them; Ana, Topson, Cr1t-, and Miracle-.
GH poached? From whom?
Every time created a bunch of star players. Matu and MC can also be added to Liquid.
He was like most of TL playing in Balkan Bears at some point. But i am not sure if you misunderstand the word.
ACE does a certain amount to discourage new players in China. But that’s it.
Yes, they reserve a certain number of slots per region anymore, but EU took the biggest hit for that and at the time was kind of bad save for Secret who it could be argued wasn’t really an EU team at that point.
On August 21 2019 19:23 Dracolich70 wrote: But they are essentially just players that are poached by some of the top teams. OG is responsible for most of them; Ana, Topson, Cr1t-, and Miracle-.
GH poached? From whom?
Every team created a bunch of star players. Matu and MC can also be added to Liquid.
I wouldn't put matu in the same caliber of player as the other guys on that list tbh (and topson shouldn't be either)
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
And let's not forget that painting a huge target on your back during the regular season can be detrimental once TI happens.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
And let's not forget than painting a huge target on your back during the regular season can be detrimental once TI happens.
This too. I just heard from the panel one of the eliminated players saying if somebody is owning. Everybody watches their replays.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
To your last part I think that was absolutely the case for last TI. Heading into TI despite VP being number 1 in DPC it felt like them liquid and LGD were all neck and neck and secret was slightly behind them (supermajor kind of backs that up) then TI comes around and 2 new teams are formed that come out of no where and jump into that category. Suddenly VP and secret get 5-6th and everyone says they choked. But if you look at who they lost to it was LGD and EG for for VP and EG and Liquid for Secret. Neither of those results look odd with the information we have now from how EG performed right after TI.
Last year wasn't like OG ti6 where they lost to a team that was not on their level and got hot for a day. Both teams just lost close series vs teams of equal strength but everyone likes to keep parroting the narrative that they choked when they didn't
On August 21 2019 19:32 goody153 wrote: 4anchors and 1 captain was where Matu was part of. Which was back when c9 got like 12-15 2nd places lol
So matu was already there around post-ti4. He had no success till around joining liquid with kuro
Ok, but this can be said from nearly everyone mentioned on that list ana, w33haa, Miracle, Topson they all were playing for some teams before without having success. The only one coming out directly on a top team without having any stints on another Team before is actually Sumail(if Liquipedia is correct).
Void used chrono, they had push top lane and could have taken at least 2 towers with stampede and chaotic offering available to them. Not sure why they dot take advantage of the one spell that gives RNG a fighting chance at this stage of the game. Instead they just farm omegalul.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.
On August 21 2019 19:43 CA Infraction wrote: Do people honestly think VP and Secret massively under performed at TI last year? If so what series do you feel they choked or under performed?
I didn't think Secret underperformed. Liquid and LGD was looking extremely strong pre-TI rather than Secret.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.
You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.
On August 21 2019 19:32 goody153 wrote: 4anchors and 1 captain was where Matu was part of. Which was back when c9 got like 12-15 2nd places lol
So matu was already there around post-ti4. He had no success till around joining liquid with kuro
Ok, but this can be said from nearly everyone mentioned on that list ana, w33haa, Miracle, Topson they all were playing for some teams before without having success. The only one coming out directly on a top team without having any stints on another Team before is actually Sumail(if Liquipedia is correct).
Sumail played for a bunch of NA teams before EG.
Actually everybody did but they're still considered new blood on how short their playtime with other teams before joining their team where they owned.
On August 21 2019 19:43 CA Infraction wrote: Do people honestly think VP and Secret massively under performed at TI last year? If so what series do you feel they choked or under performed?
I didn't think Secret underperformed. Liquid and LGD was looking extremely strong pre-TI rather than Secret.
Implying you think VP did under preform? I agree secret I think was a clear tier below the top tier for last TI but VP lost to LGD which I think was a coin flip matchup and EG who showed they were absolutely on that level as well. Do you feel they shouldn't have lost to EG then?
On August 21 2019 19:32 goody153 wrote: 4anchors and 1 captain was where Matu was part of. Which was back when c9 got like 12-15 2nd places lol
So matu was already there around post-ti4. He had no success till around joining liquid with kuro
Ok, but this can be said from nearly everyone mentioned on that list ana, w33haa, Miracle, Topson they all were playing for some teams before without having success. The only one coming out directly on a top team without having any stints on another Team before is actually Sumail(if Liquipedia is correct).
Sumail played for a bunch of NA teams before EG.
Actually everybody did but they're still considered new blood on how short their playtime with other teams before joining their team where they owned.
Did sumail play for anyone notable teams that participated in tournaments outside of NA? Or was he just on different NA stacks basically?
On August 21 2019 19:32 goody153 wrote: 4anchors and 1 captain was where Matu was part of. Which was back when c9 got like 12-15 2nd places lol
So matu was already there around post-ti4. He had no success till around joining liquid with kuro
Ok, but this can be said from nearly everyone mentioned on that list ana, w33haa, Miracle, Topson they all were playing for some teams before without having success. The only one coming out directly on a top team without having any stints on another Team before is actually Sumail(if Liquipedia is correct).
Sumail played for a bunch of NA teams before EG.
Actually everybody did but they're still considered new blood on how short their playtime with other teams before joining their team where they owned.
Did sumail play for anyone notable teams that participated in tournaments outside of NA? Or was he just on different NA stacks basically?
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.
You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.
Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do.
Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight.
The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming.
On August 21 2019 19:43 CA Infraction wrote: Do people honestly think VP and Secret massively under performed at TI last year? If so what series do you feel they choked or under performed?
I didn't think Secret underperformed. Liquid and LGD was looking extremely strong pre-TI rather than Secret.
Implying you think VP did under preform? I agree secret I think was a clear tier below the top tier for last TI but VP lost to LGD which I think was a coin flip matchup and EG who showed they were absolutely on that level as well. Do you feel they shouldn't have lost to EG then?
I don't actually remember VP's last year performance tbh lol
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.
You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.
Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do.
Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight.
The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming.
Anyways this is a silly argument lol
And I am not asking you to say anything, because I already answered the question. That you don't know why and argue you don't know, is just something you chose to do.
Secret and VP has dominated the scene for years, and as soon as they got to TI, they didn't deliver, and most of the time they sunk relative to their results throughout the yeah. That has a definite reason, that is well known in sports. Once they break that, it will be much easier for them to perform at TI.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.
You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.
Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do.
Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight.
The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming.
Anyways this is a silly argument lol
And I am not asking you to say anything, because I already answered the question. That you don't know why and argue you don't know, is just something you chose to do.
This is a forum. Participating here is naturally everybody asking to say something to somebody haha
On August 21 2019 19:47 CA Infraction wrote: Implying you think VP did under preform? I agree secret I think was a clear tier below the top tier for last TI but VP lost to LGD which I think was a coin flip matchup and EG who showed they were absolutely on that level as well. Do you feel they shouldn't have lost to EG then?
I think VP just did not have the results they were aiming for. I mean as you said, they played against the strongest team at TI8(beside OG) in the first upper bracket round and meet a strong EG in the lower bracket. Same for TI7, they lost against LFY(which were playing the best Dota at that time) and being knocked out by Liquid.
Secret performed actually as expected at every TI except for TI5.
On August 21 2019 19:27 Dracolich70 wrote: To answer the question asked by the panel. It has become a psychological barrier for Secret and VP, which seeds doubt. It has happened so many times, that it becomes the self-fulfilled prophecy of making it harder for themselves to succeed at TI.
We can't really say that's really it as we never have a glimpse of their mentality nor have we seen them play 10 hours in a personal camera hearing everything they say.
Other teams could just have been better each TI. That's it.
I don't think it is really relevant what they say. Results and the patterns speak for themselves.
If we stick to results and patterns then we have them just getting outplayed by the other teams. That's the only logical reason then.
Honestly armchair analysis don't work without seeing their workaround cause if we say it is their atmosphere or their communication without us seeing it then it is just baseless assumptions.
Saying that they just outplayed and outskilled at TI isn't baselss assumption. It is pretty much fact
The results and patterns are that they dominate throughout the year, only to sink at TI. Those are basic psychological barriers.
Again we can't say psychological barriers without being around their team and having solid accounts of each player that they are indeed suffering that. So we can only say that they are getting outplayed without seeing how the team inside works.
You are arguing that they are playing subpar, but that is not the answer to the question, but the reason why. That they are playing subpar is obvious to anyone. You are essentially not touching the topic.
Which is why i am saying i can't say they are really like having psychological barriers as they are showcasing it. We don't have evidence they do.
Like for example Fnatic post-TI6 was certainly showcasing internal conflict because they showcased it on the documentary of them infighting and having awful atmosphere. We can also say LGD was legitimately confused and lost confidence against OG because they did showcase it on truesight.
The only reason we even know that Alliance and Navi currently isn't a toxic team but a team that doesn't blame teammates and just tries to foster a friendship atmosphere like OG was because of the video showcase of them hugging after the loss or alliance not even blaming insania and just saying "that's ok we got this" after his mistake instead of blaming.
Anyways this is a silly argument lol
And I am not asking you to say anything, because I already answered the question. That you don't know why and argue you don't know, is just something you chose to do.
This is a forum. Participating here is naturally everybody asking to say something to somebody haha
You are most welcome to say whatever you want. But you are basically making an argument based on not know the answer to the question of which I answered.
Secret's placing last year wasn't really below expectations. They did well early in that season but fell off a bit already well before TI. They weren't one of the big favorites going in anymore and finished 5th-6th losing to EG and TL in the bracket.
TI7 also not sure I'd say that was underperforming. They weren't one of the big favorites by any means and were pretty close to knocking out Liquid in the LB
TI6 obviously they were really bad after the Shanghai Major roster change but obviously going out in the bo1s was still disappointing. But I think the expectations already were not that high given how badly they had performed in the months leading up to it.
TI5 bracket performance was the one where they really had high expectations and didn't live up to them.
But of course it's fair to say that at least they've never overperformed compared to expectations
On August 21 2019 20:02 Zea! wrote: well, the winner of Liquid vs Tnc is pretty much guaranteed top 6, not bad (about $ 1.200.000,00)
I wouldn't just write off RNG ,they look to be a team that plays on momentum , and they have it now , they for sure can win vs both Liquid and TNC.
they'll put a battle but imho Tnc and Liquid, especially Tnc are on another level :p, but everything is possible, of course!
I mean you would have probably said the same thing about VP but here we are. I agree TNC will be a very strong test for them but liquid has looked just as if not even more shaky than VP this event so if they get past TNC RNG is no walk over
Yeah don't see VP going onwards without a major change, at least 2 players probably. Liquid will probably see a change in the Kuroky-MC-Miracle axis as well as w33 not staying for much longer after TI, almost no matter what happens in the tournament. Something hasn't clicked with them in a while it feels. But for now LET'S GO LIQUID!
On August 21 2019 20:18 vommy wrote: Is TNC getting booed?
yep
mostly due to kuku
I'd like to believe at least one guy in the crowd never said something worse than "ching chong" while playing dota.
Not really surprised about the booing considering the place that TI is taking over. This might have never happened for instance if TI took place on Germany perhaps.
On August 21 2019 20:41 nojok wrote: Sad w33ha heropool, it does not look like a particularly good TA game.
Its not so bad, I think the plan is to Ravage and burst SD with blink/meld, then clear skeletons with anchor. At that point, there's very little threat to TA.
EDIT: But that batrider pick throws a wrench in that plan :D
Not super keen into these core picks by Liquid, I liked the lineup until the TA pick but going all in on these cores that need to get up close and personal with the TNC team doesn't fill me with confidence. Also I'm not super keen on these trilanes Liquid has been doing
On August 21 2019 21:08 FreakyDroid wrote: Liquid has this one in the bag.
It's still a TL Timing strat, so they have to be crisp to close the game out. We'll see. Though I'm not really a fan of WK in this game, but Kunkka has been doing working at TI.
On August 21 2019 21:16 bluzi wrote: I feel WK is not doing that well , what is the Win percentage of that hero in TI ? Gabi on a different Carry would've had much bigger impact.
Idk the winrate but most games i've seen are wins. (but memory is a finncky thing so i could be misremembering it)
I don't like WK carry that much tbh. It rarely outcarries most carries on peak farm and it is mainly a timing hero than a carry lategame hero.
On August 21 2019 21:19 FreakyDroid wrote: Blink before BKB with a diffusal on the other team, yeah not such a good idea.
He had BKB queued first but liquid turned on the aggression and he decided to go for the immediate but lesser power up.
Yeah, but still, I think that was a big mistake. But on the other hand, I dont think that would have changed much since they didnt have damage to deal with the bkb's on TA and troll.
On August 21 2019 21:28 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I miss weatherman Purge. Play by play analysis of the last game is missing.
Agreed. 7 people on panel and not really doing a deep analysis of the game that happened.
Overall one of the worst recent TI from a production point of view. Very little focus on the players as people and not a lot of focus on the game in the panels.
On August 21 2019 21:28 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I miss weatherman Purge. Play by play analysis of the last game is missing.
Agreed. 7 people on panel and not really doing a deep analysis of the game that happened.
Well: - Liquid didn't fall behind that much - Liquid hit their item timings and hit hard - the End
I can summarize at a higher level. Liquid won.
You can also break down each of your three key points into 200-300 sub points that can be discussed. What did liquid do so they didn't fall behind? Why were they satisfied with the troll vs bat match up. Etc etc.
On August 21 2019 21:40 Ufnal wrote: Slightly off topic, but I am so happy to see Sheever doing fine, hosting well, looking great and having fun. <3
Also, twitch chat triggers me so hard with Kyle hate.
Twitch chat is worthless when it passes 10k people even with moderation. Past ~500 without.
On August 21 2019 21:46 nojok wrote: Why no one else is going for the core Io? It does not seem that hard to use.
It isn't just about the hero. You also have the entire game plan around it. It isn't just 1 person playing IO, it is running a strat around it with heroes that fit for 3 more people.
On August 21 2019 21:46 nojok wrote: Why no one else is going for the core Io? It does not seem that hard to use.
Nobody probably wants to play it.
IO is a weird carry and it seems people like Ana who was party Q-ing and pubstomping plebs at 3k are the only one who likes the hero.
It's TI. What you like to play doesn't really matter from here out. If there's something broken, you need to be able to abuse it.
As for this match, I don't like the Underlord, though it does lock down some heroes.
It is TI.
The more you should play heroes you are comfortable with. Remember how the recent winners have been winning TI ? Playing what they think they are good at. Not what they don't wanna play.
That forced to play what the captain wants is like 2015 oldschool dota2 meta. The most successful teams play whatever the fuck their players want.
On August 21 2019 21:53 Rufus Dupres wrote: Survive 30-35 minutes and AM will be winning this for Liquid.
I wouldn't underestimate lategame Bristleback but that hero is just so crazy at lategame. AM won't be able to burst it in the initial jump(having low mana) and his warpath stacks can make him a harder hitter than AM would ever be,
Mirana jumping out of the euls+split earth combo has happened more than once now. This is because of how the mechanics work, and not because of Lesh doing something wrong, right?
On August 21 2019 22:30 Elurie wrote: Should have gone Tinker lol.
yea
idk how heen didn't realize this bb pick 1) doesn't evenw ork lategame because there's a sd 2) only doubles down ont he previous 4 pick weaknesses. no strength of its own
On August 21 2019 22:39 plasmidghost wrote: Liquid looking much better than they did in group stage. I didn't watch VP vs RNG, but they could definitely beat RNG
On August 21 2019 22:40 Elurie wrote: No atos on TNC either. Bad picks and bad items.
Weird they went for Euls and not the Atos , they couldn't hit their timing , rubick and underlord spamming the waves while W33 and Miracle split pushing like crazy.
On August 21 2019 22:42 plasmidghost wrote: GH-God, that was such a sick performance
I already had a weird feeling about Puppey not picking Rubik for Yapzor anymore, and now I'm devastated. When Crit and GH style on him you can't say the hero is weak or out of meta. Maybe he got bored of it? 🤷
Like, one day, they'll win something because they are really good. But man do they suck at TI mainstage. I'm going to mark them to lose every TI mainstage game for the rest of my life because at least then I'll get points from my predictions when they break my heart.
EPT
The International/2019
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