[ManilaMajor] Main Event - Day 4

On June 10 2016 05:50 DucK- wrote:
Why does navi have to play 2 games tomorrow (hehe)? Wouldn't it make more sense to play og vs newbee instead?

On June 10 2016 05:32 TosHReloadeD wrote:
If LGD is able to defeat VGR i think they are serious contenders to win the whole Major. I know my boy Maybe will make an outstanding performance as always.

On June 10 2016 05:50 DucK- wrote:
Why does navi have to play 2 games tomorrow (hehe)? Wouldn't it make more sense to play og vs newbee instead?

On June 10 2016 06:53 hfglgg wrote:


the "upper side" of the lower bracket, if this makes any sense, plays 2 games on the same day in round 4 and the lower side on round 5. seems somewhat fair to me.

btw, why do they start so early again? was hoping to get some sleep today, but nope 4am cet it is.

On June 10 2016 07:12 dragonswarrior wrote:
Maaaaaaaannnnn... I know it's not going to happen but it would be pretty cool if NaVi could win the whole thing...

Ah well. At least I also like Liquid.

On June 10 2016 05:50 Pandemona wrote:

No that is Saturday

On June 10 2016 04:34 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah i like LGD too hope they go far. They should because they already have, beat MVP if they get passed VG.R and then puts them against NaVi/TL/Fnatic aka winner of TL/NaVi so should be fun game that. Then can LGD beat Newbee/OG. They have beaten Newbee before so be interesting.

On June 10 2016 08:49 common_cider wrote:
I still think Liquid and newbee are the 2 best teams and very evenly matched. I love upsets though so rooting for Navi, VGR, OG, fnatic

On June 10 2016 10:41 plasmidghost wrote:
Liquid 1-2 Na`Vi
VG.R 1-2 LGD
Fnatic 2-1 Na`Vi

On June 10 2016 11:27 DucK- wrote:
Why bat liquid even picked a venge...think navi got outdrafted. I agreed with black, I was calling for timber saw.

On June 10 2016 11:32 Dysisa wrote:
Turns out ArtStyle is still damn good with his junglers.

On June 10 2016 11:32 nayumi wrote:

He has always been. One might argue it's the only thing he's good on though XD

On June 10 2016 11:40 Nyan wrote:
crowd going full asshole mode in favor of navi?

On June 10 2016 11:48 the bear jew wrote:
Looks like we have to hope for L-W-W

On June 10 2016 11:52 TheTenthDoc wrote:
heehee "skyrocket down", never change Tobi

On June 10 2016 11:54 Kipsate wrote:
VAC scan right there.

On June 10 2016 12:00 RubickPicker wrote:
This still has to be the best NaVi since LightIfHeaven.

On June 10 2016 12:08 ch33psh33p wrote:
Man this fucking crowd

How can you be chanting Navi when they lost

On June 10 2016 12:03 Logo wrote:
Crowd is a bit of a bummer for this match. Needs more Liquid fans.

I want to see lotus on Phoenix even though it's gonna be a shiva's.

Looks like Shiva's into lotus?

On June 10 2016 12:08 Dysisa wrote:
Liquid wins and the crowd chants for Na'Vi, haha

On June 10 2016 12:09 TheTenthDoc wrote:


Sadly Liquid doesn't have a player with a big personality who has been forced down the DotA community's throat for the past five years

On June 10 2016 12:09 TheTenthDoc wrote:


Sadly Liquid doesn't have a player with a big personality who has been forced down the DotA community's throat for the past five years

On June 10 2016 12:11 nayumi wrote:

Well less personality, more championship is the way to go i guess?

People cheering for Navi are cheering for Dendi. I don't think General or Sonneiko got a lot of Filipino fans

On June 10 2016 12:11 Kipsate wrote:
Liquid is just a boring team with very little personality so they don't have many fans, they are also playing against a team that a ridicilous amount of (Dondo) fans.

On June 10 2016 12:18 Elurie wrote:
What is DK's winrate this tournament?

On June 10 2016 12:16 Sphaero wrote:


Eh, NaVi has simply more global appeal due to Dendi being a stream personality and their former dominance when they were the only Western hope.

Things will look very differently in Frankfurt, though, when Liquid will have the majority of the crowds support.

On June 10 2016 12:19 Kraznaya wrote:
dendi has a ton of low knowledge casual fans so it's not surprising that he's a god in the philippines where the game has a wider appeal

On June 10 2016 12:22 Taf the Ghost wrote:


It's it pretty much assured that any it's always a Na'Vi favored crowd, unless it's a local team?

On June 10 2016 12:19 Kraznaya wrote:
dendi has a ton of low knowledge casual fans so it's not surprising that he's a god in the philippines where the game has a wider appeal

On June 10 2016 12:21 DucK- wrote:


Not even sure having German fans are enough to overcome such a dull team. Kuro and fata both are quiet and boring. Finnish fans maybe. I'm confident the crowd will still be navi favoured.

On June 10 2016 12:22 the bear jew wrote:
Lycan overall first pick.

On June 10 2016 12:22 Taf the Ghost wrote:


It's it pretty much assured that any it's always a Na'Vi favored crowd, unless it's a local team?

On June 10 2016 12:27 the bear jew wrote:
Ok, Dendi Qop. Let's hope for Dendi's TI5 Qop play.

On June 10 2016 12:30 Elurie wrote:

Who will the crowd cheer louder for later if it's Navi vs Fnatic?

On June 10 2016 12:28 Sphaero wrote:


What you call quiet and boring is seen as humble and down to earth in Germany, which generally appeals to Germans. You are also underestimating the kind of status that Kuro has in German Dota. The guy is basically seen as the father of it and is nearly universally loved, Watch the first ESL One and see what kind a support the old Mouz got from the crowd and that was just with Fata and Qoiqva in the team. On top of that Germans are extremely patriotic when it comes to Sports.

On June 10 2016 12:30 Dracolich70 wrote:
The last part makes me happy to know, considering Germans - at least to me, seemed so fearful to be nationalistic, considering the past.

On June 10 2016 12:36 Sphaero wrote:


That is actually the main reason for it IMO. Sports has always been the compensation for the lack of general lack of nationalism in Germany. You see it every time a big Sports (mainly football) tournament comes around and the flags come out.

On June 10 2016 12:40 ch33psh33p wrote:
If you're Dire mid you're tilted out of your mind right now.

On June 10 2016 12:45 Kipsate wrote:

i'd be so fucking on tilt right now.

On June 10 2016 12:54 trifecta wrote:
I don't like this greedy ass TL draft aka kuro wants to be a core

On June 10 2016 13:00 pellejohnson wrote:
Navi.... Nice try I guess, can't wait to see who they will kick this time

On June 10 2016 13:00 pellejohnson wrote:
Navi.... Nice try I guess, can't wait to see who they will kick this time

On June 10 2016 13:02 Soularion wrote:
What's the easiest thing to look at to see who's in the lead? Only recently getting into watching Dota. Pretty fun though.

On June 10 2016 13:02 Soularion wrote:
What's the easiest thing to look at to see who's in the lead? Only recently getting into watching Dota. Pretty fun though.

On June 10 2016 13:07 plasmidghost wrote:
Well, I do have some hope for Na`Vi going into TI6

On June 10 2016 13:07 Bisu-Fan wrote:
EFF CRAP POOP NOW TIME TO CHEER FOR MVP
Oh well... hope navi keeps getting better in time for ti6

On June 10 2016 13:11 Taf the Ghost wrote:


Top 4, more than likely. OG, MVP & TL have secure invites already. Fnatic pretty much as well.

On June 10 2016 13:14 ch33psh33p wrote:
Damn are we gonna have to wait an hour?'

Oh ok it'll start early

On June 10 2016 13:17 Taf the Ghost wrote:


Eh, I doubt it. All of the "scene" has been pretty far off on Valve's invite structure, when it's pretty easy (for me) to figure out how they've been operating. Top 4 is the only secure invites from this Major. Top 6 probably get it, as from TI5, Frankfurt & Shanghai, but Top 4 if you want to ensure it.

Of the teams outside of the top 4 right now, TL & MVP have assured Invites. Fnatic should probably be assumed to as well.

On June 10 2016 13:19 Taf the Ghost wrote:


VG.R looked horrific in the group stage, but their mid-game has looked fine against EG & DC. It's really that LGD has to be able to punish their early game, which, well, it's LGD. I highly doubt that.

I think Fy gets the better of Xaio8 in this go around.

On June 10 2016 12:11 Kipsate wrote:
Liquid is just a boring team with very little personality so they don't have many fans, they are also playing against a team that a ridicilous amount of (Dondo) fans.

On June 10 2016 13:33 Elurie wrote:
This is a joke, right? Tell me this is not an actual secret shop item.

https://carousell.com/p/50687250/

On June 10 2016 13:29 Taf the Ghost wrote:


We're looking at 10 Invites, at the most. Most likely is going to be 8. Some Valve people just got a really huge headache for the next week.

Top 4 from Manila will get invites. (Some Valve people had told teams at Frankfurt that top 4 was the only expected automatic invites, but they've clearly shown it to be that way since then.)

OG & Newbee + 2 others. If those two others end up being MVP + TL, then all we have is 3 assured invites + Newbee.

Since Valve is using some sort of system for "what you've done this year", the other Invites to note is Alliance (yes, seriously, they're probably getting a direct Invite), Fnatic, Complexity, LGD, Ehome.

So we really don't have a long list. And ESL One Frankfurt should also probably give out +1 Invite.



This is the same scenario that happened due to ESL One Manila and why we got 12 invites to Manila. Winning a Major is supposed to secure you an invite to all of them for the year, but OG kind of dropped the ball at Shanghai and Wings went and won ESL One Manila. If Fnatic beat Wings, Complexity would have taken their Invite spot and it would have been 8 invites. Valve had 9 or 10 teams they wanted to invite to the Manila Major as a result of the way the tournaments went, and adding a play-in section was going to increase the time-frame just that much more.

On June 10 2016 13:33 Elurie wrote:
This is a joke, right? Tell me this is not an actual secret shop item.

https://carousell.com/p/50687250/

On June 10 2016 14:02 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Oh, Valve has put themselves in a rougher position, which might see ESL One Frankfurt not giving invites, we'll see which of the setups they put value on.

If they go for a Region Split setup with 8 teams, I would expect this, if LGD beats VG.R.

NA: Complexity
SEA: MVP & Fnatic
China: Newbee & LGD.
EU: OG, TL & Alliance.

The Complexity Invite is even a stretch. With Valve losing 2 of the Top 5 teams of the Year this week, not a lot of teams really actually deserve invites if we're talking about the entirety of the year. Valve has clearly set out that "What have you done on LAN" and "What have you done this Year?" are their big criteria.

I should note I'm not a big fan of the way Valve has approached this (though it's a fully defensible position), but what they've been up to isn't some enigma or black hole of information. They've done enough to show their hand.

On June 10 2016 14:02 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Oh, Valve has put themselves in a rougher position, which might see ESL One Frankfurt not giving invites, we'll see which of the setups they put value on.

If they go for a Region Split setup with 8 teams, I would expect this, if LGD beats VG.R.

NA: Complexity
SEA: MVP & Fnatic
China: Newbee & LGD.
EU: OG, TL & Alliance.

The Complexity Invite is even a stretch. With Valve losing 2 of the Top 5 teams of the Year this week, not a lot of teams really actually deserve invites if we're talking about the entirety of the year. Valve has clearly set out that "What have you done on LAN" and "What have you done this Year?" are their big criteria.

I should note I'm not a big fan of the way Valve has approached this (though it's a fully defensible position), but what they've been up to isn't some enigma or black hole of information. They've done enough to show their hand.

On June 10 2016 13:48 Dracolich70 wrote:
The headache increases, when their catering to lesser successful regions(SEA/NA) somewhat paid off, but inherently also means that the deeper regions gets less.

So even if your assessment is full of logic and likelihood, they are still cornering themselves, because the next in line are not all that great(okay EG are, outside DC and CoL), and Valve by history does look at region distribution, more than who did what throughout the year.

So if it comes to direct invites it is:

NA: 2 CoL and DC. Or you can argue DC with 2 players that are winners from Shanghai didn't do enough, making it 1.
SEA: 2 Fnatic and MVP
China: 2!: Newbee, and ??? Ehome, LGD, and Wings have had different timings.
EU: 2! - which according to you is gonna be, OG and Alliance(and somehow squeeze in TL).

In short that would give equal distribution even though China and EU are much deeper, risking T3 teams to take places from much better teams through qualifiers, due to regions.

On June 10 2016 14:07 Taf the Ghost wrote:


Alliance won 2 International LANs. I've had to say Alliance is likely to be the "bubble" team for the last few weeks when talking about TI6 invites. With Secret & EG now removed from invites, Alliance suddenly isn't on much of a bubble. Who has the results, *over the year*, over Alliance? This is what happens when the Teams that have the most top 3 placings over the Year suddenly aren't getting invites.

On June 10 2016 14:08 CxWiLL wrote:

This is my invite list for the case of 10 invite
SEA: 2, Fnatic and MVP deserve an invite by any measure. But the problem is the qualifier teams from SEA will be very underwhelming..
China: 2, LGD and Newbee will be invited,
EU:3, OG, Liquid, Navi for sure
NA: 1, yes, I think only DC deserves an invite.

It depends on how valve value each region, there might be a coin toss between Complexity, Alliance and VGR. 2 of them will get the invite.

I think it will be a good idea to merge the qualifier with wild card. What I mean is take top 2 team from each regional qualifier and put them in a wild card tournament to eliminate the worst 2. In this way, valve can save the ass of the big names (Secret EG VG and Ehome) and keep the weaker teams from sneaking through the qualifiers in the weaker region.