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On May 11 2016 03:28 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Alchemist isn't a Sumail hero. I bet my ass Aui would've won it for EG much easily with the start Sumail had. I mean, he bought a fucking Shivas and gifted bulba with a buff he doesn't need over Disruptor+Bain aghs which Newbee had no means to deal with.
You think SUMAIL made the decision as to who to give it to? Do you understand how this team works?
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United States47024 Posts
On May 11 2016 03:32 Sn0_Man wrote:
I don't think you could afford to ever have alch in LS outside of LS using it to save him
alch is too much of your map pressure
In this case, it's not so much map pressure as it is "no other hero on the team has the means to clear Naga illusions and high rank Forge Spirits".
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Western teams are really meh at the moment if they are losing with a superior drafts to a standard Newbee ones. I don't think ppd gives too much fuck about it though,
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On May 11 2016 03:34 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 03:26 Logo wrote:On May 11 2016 03:19 Azarkon wrote:On May 11 2016 03:18 ref4 wrote:
why did sumail give aghs to beastmaster and not to disruptor -- disruptor aghs is 1 of the best aghs upgrade in the game plus they don't need the extra range on primal roar cuz glimpse + aether lense is already like 50 screens long anyway Because PPD told him to, I'm sure, which is why I think PPD's decisions that game weren't the best. They'll learn, I still feel they had the advantage in the pick against Newbee. They just didn't play well enough. I liked EG's picks, but I do think Newbee's picks were about as good (if not slightly better). Newbee had a great stalling game vs a team that needs certain cooldowns to stand a chance in the fight (Rage & Static Storm mostly). And in a full on fight EG had way too many targets to commit to. If you leave Naga alone she'll reset the fight, if you don't disable Weaver he can go ham, if you don't disable the Phoenix your entire team will melt and then you have an Invoker and Lion controlling things on top of all that. You could see in a lot of the team fights they had to all split up their focus, sometimes it worked but more often in the pitched fights it didn't. I feel that PPD's strategy was harder to pull off, but it did have an answer to all that Newbee had, so the loss was on not being able to play well enough. There were several mistakes that game that led to it not working. But different from Secret's mistakes, these were mistakes made as a team, rather than a one player "throw." Besides Sumail's one time getting caught on Newbee's side, the other mistakes were all made in team fights and when to team fight. The last fight that decide the game is an example: why would PPD call for this instead of wait for when all his team has what they need, and when Sumail has buy, I don't know. But that's the way it is and they will have to improve.
Yeah I'd agree with that. I think PPD's draft did have promise and answers, but I'd say Newbee's draft also had answers (at different timings mostly) so that's why I thought it pretty even. But yeah it seemed like a big team loss just based on general decisions rather than player decisions (except the pick on Sumail).
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On May 11 2016 03:32 Sn0_Man wrote:
I don't think you could afford to ever have alch in LS outside of LS using it to save him
alch is too much of your map pressure
But id have loved to see NBs faces when naix jumps outta BM and when they think 'thats ok".... Out comes Alch from Naix...Haha!
Damn you Sufail for not givin this to us!! :D
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I think if Bulba went Force to break Linkens instead of BoTs, and if Sumail gave aghs to PPD instead of Bulba, the game would've played out better for EG. Great game coming from Newbee though, grats to them!
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Sanya12364 Posts
On May 11 2016 03:36 Nedereden wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 03:32 Sn0_Man wrote:
I don't think you could afford to ever have alch in LS outside of LS using it to save him
alch is too much of your map pressure But id have loved to see NBs faces when naix jumps outta BM and when they think 'thats ok".... Out comes Alch from Naix...Haha! Damn you Sufail for not givin this to us!! :D
We need more heroception.
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giving aghs buff to BM instead of disruptor was definitely a mistake. Disruptor aghs is so much better than BM aghs
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Sanya12364 Posts
On May 11 2016 03:34 Wineandbread wrote:Looking back at the fight with the clutch egg: https://www.twitch.tv/epicenter_en1/v/65602399?t=11h36m00sI don't agree with purge, both EG cores would probably die even if the egg goes down. kp blows bb anyway and tps in on one of the heroes. With diffusal charges left, no chance they let aui or sumail escape. After they push highground after this, phoenix seems kind of a nonfactor in their victory push. He rays invoker to try and keep him alive, but he dies anyway and buys back to seal the deal.
Did he already BB?
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On May 11 2016 03:39 malcram wrote:
giving aghs buff to BM instead of disruptor was definitely a mistake. Disruptor aghs is so much better than BM aghs
I can see the reasoning though; at the time EG probably felt like they couldn't take a 5v5 fight so having aghs would mean they could continue to secure kills with Roar without having a period where they were vulnerable because of the roar CD.
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On May 11 2016 03:41 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 03:34 Wineandbread wrote:Looking back at the fight with the clutch egg: https://www.twitch.tv/epicenter_en1/v/65602399?t=11h36m00sI don't agree with purge, both EG cores would probably die even if the egg goes down. kp blows bb anyway and tps in on one of the heroes. With diffusal charges left, no chance they let aui or sumail escape. After they push highground after this, phoenix seems kind of a nonfactor in their victory push. He rays invoker to try and keep him alive, but he dies anyway and buys back to seal the deal. Did he already BB?
He BBed in the clip and TPed to the fight right as Supernova went off.
I agree though; with 3 heroes vs a LS with no Rage (and near dead) and a 1/2 hp alch things would look pretty good for Newbee anyways. I think even Infest would be on CD (maybe?) so at best the LS dies and Alch would limp away probably.
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On May 11 2016 03:35 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 03:28 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Alchemist isn't a Sumail hero. I bet my ass Aui would've won it for EG much easily with the start Sumail had. I mean, he bought a fucking Shivas and gifted bulba with a buff he doesn't need over Disruptor+Bain aghs which Newbee had no means to deal with. You think SUMAIL made the decision as to who to give it to? Do you understand how this team works?
Go on and act like ppd told Sumail to build Shivas and Octarine before Aghs.
I mean ppd thought it was going to be KPII's Phoenix offlane (with kaka on a team, lel), he was really high this series. And yet they almost did it because of team's synergy.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On May 11 2016 03:44 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 03:41 TanGeng wrote:On May 11 2016 03:34 Wineandbread wrote:Looking back at the fight with the clutch egg: https://www.twitch.tv/epicenter_en1/v/65602399?t=11h36m00sI don't agree with purge, both EG cores would probably die even if the egg goes down. kp blows bb anyway and tps in on one of the heroes. With diffusal charges left, no chance they let aui or sumail escape. After they push highground after this, phoenix seems kind of a nonfactor in their victory push. He rays invoker to try and keep him alive, but he dies anyway and buys back to seal the deal. Did he already BB? He BBed in the clip and TPed to the fight right as Supernova went off. I agree though; with 3 heroes vs a LS with no Rage (and near dead) and a 1/2 hp alch things would look pretty good for Newbee anyways. I think even Infest would be on CD (maybe?) so at best the LS dies and Alch would limp away probably.
LS or alch is non-factor with net. LS is dead anyways so Alch gets kited and probably takes a hero with him.
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I'm sure the decision on who got aghs was a team one
Bulba likely said he felt he wasn't able to roar properly due to radiance cancelling blink and PPD might have said he wasn't feeling well and would rather it went to somebody else. There's no way Sumail just activated it on bulba and moved on
Also shivas octarine before aghs isn't bad notice how alch was far from useless in fights.
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What's more useful for a fights against Lionvoker+Phoenix+Naga Radiance burn
Shivas+Octarine or a fucking BKB+Basher? heck, even mjornir would be better.
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Sanya12364 Posts
Octarine is part of your farming speed and chemical rage uptime. It's pretty much core.
Shivas is situational though.
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On May 11 2016 03:55 TanGeng wrote:
Octarine is part of your farming speed and chemical rage uptime. It's pretty much core.
Shivas is situational though.
shivas is actually pretty damn good since you can activate it more often thanks to octarine and spam that in long team fights
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Shivas was because he really needed an armor item and a way to handle naga illus.
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I agree with shivas feeling pretty rando before a bkb, but if he didn't go radiance-manta-octarine their lanes would've been pushed in even worse
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it doesn't matter how good a team was when a patch changes the game.
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EPT
