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On May 12 2016 04:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 04:38 Dracolich70 wrote:
Group A featured the 3 most roster stable teams, while Group B featured the 3 struggling teams after reshuffles. Somehow some feel EG looks stronger than OG after getting 2nd in the special Olympics. I certainly didn't expect OG to look as strong as they did vs Alliance and Liquid, so maybe it's still a bit surprise in there? Would have probably said OG the weakest out of the 4 as well but after thinking about it for a couple secs you have to admit they looked lots better than EG. And not just a tiny bit. I expected all to be pretty rusty outside Newbee, that has played a lot recently. The projected struggling teams have been that. OG looked better than I expected too, but that is only because I didn't expect much from any team in this tournament. TL and OG have been roster stable and it shows, though.
I don't think EG and Secret cares to much. They just want as many games as possible. PPY has speculated in lower bracket for years.
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On May 12 2016 04:36 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Newbee will overcome OG 2-0.
Just because OG are shit without Phoenix&ESpirit. Cr1t- is not overly good with Earth Spirit. It is actually one of his only weak heroes in his pool.
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On May 12 2016 04:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 04:36 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Newbee will overcome OG 2-0.
Just because OG are shit without Phoenix&ESpirit. Cr1t- is not overly good with Earth Spirit. It is actually one of his only weak heroes in his pool.
Eh, I don't buy it.
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On May 12 2016 05:17 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 04:59 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 12 2016 04:36 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Newbee will overcome OG 2-0.
Just because OG are shit without Phoenix&ESpirit. Cr1t- is not overly good with Earth Spirit. It is actually one of his only weak heroes in his pool. Eh, I don't buy it. Okay, stick with he is great with Earth Spirit too. I don't mind.
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Sanya12364 Posts
Natural order restored with 2-1 EG victory. Escaped dumpstering.
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On May 12 2016 05:34 TanGeng wrote:
Natural order restored with 2-1 EG victory. Escaped dumpstering.
well secret was not so lucky. they are waiting in the dumpster for eg to join them tomorrow;)
if liquid lose against eg i look dumb as fuck after this statement^^
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Sanya12364 Posts
On May 12 2016 05:42 hunter_x wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 05:34 TanGeng wrote:
Natural order restored with 2-1 EG victory. Escaped dumpstering. well secret was not so lucky. they are waiting in the dumpster for eg to join them tomorrow;) if liquid lose against eg i look dumb as fuck after this statement^^
It's ok. That's what LR threads are for.
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Is there info on who drops on what side of the bracket? Wondering who A vs Secret winner will be playing against.
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On May 12 2016 05:55 spudde123 wrote:
Is there info on who drops on what side of the bracket? Wondering who A vs Secret winner will be playing against.
The natural way is: loser of Newbee/OG is meeting winner of VP/Complexity. So that would give EG/TL loser vs Secret/A winner.
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On May 12 2016 05:55 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 05:42 hunter_x wrote:On May 12 2016 05:34 TanGeng wrote:
Natural order restored with 2-1 EG victory. Escaped dumpstering. well secret was not so lucky. they are waiting in the dumpster for eg to join them tomorrow;) if liquid lose against eg i look dumb as fuck after this statement^^ It's ok. That's what LR threads are for.
thats right haha as if we would lose to a team with bulba and aui carry haha
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EG should be favored over OG until Fly can show he can out-draft Peter. Take a peak back at the MDL Lower Bracket Finals. ppd pulled off one of the most brilliant out-drafts (over both games) that you're likely to see. While it's been a few months, it also shows that Peter figured out Fly, so he can do it again.
But that's like a 55/45 edge. Everyone but Newbee are still figuring out how they want to play the patch. OG is definitely looking to be back into their very defensive play from 6.85, which is working pretty well right now. (At least as an Alliance counter.)
For OG, though, they've pretty much fallen into Miracle as 1, Moon as 2 and NoTail as 3 in a lot of drafts. It definitely makes Doom a first phase ban against them. Newbee is the favorite against OG, but I'd go with 65/35. All depends who shows up tomorrow.
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On May 12 2016 06:16 Taf the Ghost wrote:
EG should be favored over OG until Fly can show he can out-draft Peter. Take a peak back at the MDL Lower Bracket Finals. ppd pulled off one of the most brilliant out-drafts (over both games) that you're likely to see. While it's been a few months, it also shows that Peter figured out Fly, so he can do it again.
But that's like a 55/45 edge. Everyone but Newbee are still figuring out how they want to play the patch. OG is definitely looking to be back into their very defensive play from 6.85, which is working pretty well right now. (At least as an Alliance counter.)
For OG, though, they've pretty much fallen into Miracle as 1, Moon as 2 and NoTail as 3 in a lot of drafts. It definitely makes Doom a first phase ban against them. Newbee is the favorite against OG, but I'd go with 65/35. All depends who shows up tomorrow.
eg play liquid, not og
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Everyday that passes makes me realize that Fear is the best player on EG. He is so solid and makes quiet but important plays all game every game. Sumail has his Sufail moments and you can point to a number of PPD off games (CM against Newbee anyone?). Aui is adjusting and his sven/ls always makes me nervous and Bulbu shines on DS but has lapses like getting caught super hard as BM in g2 against VP.
But Fear is always involved and rarely feeds for free. His ES is also super solid despite the common notion that as an older player his mechanics have suffered.
Basically Fear is a total beast and I love his play
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On May 12 2016 06:16 Taf the Ghost wrote:
EG should be favored over OG until Fly can show he can out-draft Peter. Take a peak back at the MDL Lower Bracket Finals. ppd pulled off one of the most brilliant out-drafts (over both games) that you're likely to see. While it's been a few months, it also shows that Peter figured out Fly, so he can do it again.
But that's like a 55/45 edge. Everyone but Newbee are still figuring out how they want to play the patch. OG is definitely looking to be back into their very defensive play from 6.85, which is working pretty well right now. (At least as an Alliance counter.)
For OG, though, they've pretty much fallen into Miracle as 1, Moon as 2 and NoTail as 3 in a lot of drafts. It definitely makes Doom a first phase ban against them. Newbee is the favorite against OG, but I'd go with 65/35. All depends who shows up tomorrow. Hard to outdraft PPD, because no one figures there is anything to learn, because all he figures out, is what others drafted, and try to counter it, while his team went life and death through every match, winning by no means by drafting, but despite of terrible drafting. I don't know if it is deliberate, but you somehow totally forget that OG gangbanged EG in group stages. There is a ton to be learned from a loss, and little from beating them. This is pretty much why the "You get one more shot, unless you were pretty successful in the tournament", favors teams that struggles. Heck, it was used the way back in TI 2, when PPY sent the Chinese team by team down to losers brackets, and they got time to amend what went wrong, and has been the recipe more times than not ever since.
I am in no doubt PPD will use this "I came up with nothing" strategy once again, while OG does OG things and pulls out all the innovation that propels the meta, while cornering themselves. However, this time, PPD has two last minute standins.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On May 12 2016 07:00 1godless wrote:
Everyday that passes makes me realize that Fear is the best player on EG. He is so solid and makes quiet but important plays all game every game. Sumail has his Sufail moments and you can point to a number of PPD off games (CM against Newbee anyone?). Aui is adjusting and his sven/ls always makes me nervous and Bulbu shines on DS but has lapses like getting caught super hard as BM in g2 against VP.
But Fear is always involved and rarely feeds for free. His ES is also super solid despite the common notion that as an older player his mechanics have suffered.
Basically Fear is a total beast and I love his play
I would get behind 5xFear clones playing all the roles. Maybe you do 4xFear + ppd.
It's been this way since Ti3 including the 4 throwers + Fear phase of EG that didn't qualify for the International.
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On May 12 2016 07:54 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 07:00 1godless wrote:
Everyday that passes makes me realize that Fear is the best player on EG. He is so solid and makes quiet but important plays all game every game. Sumail has his Sufail moments and you can point to a number of PPD off games (CM against Newbee anyone?). Aui is adjusting and his sven/ls always makes me nervous and Bulbu shines on DS but has lapses like getting caught super hard as BM in g2 against VP.
But Fear is always involved and rarely feeds for free. His ES is also super solid despite the common notion that as an older player his mechanics have suffered.
Basically Fear is a total beast and I love his play I would get behind 5xFear clones playing all the roles. Maybe you do 4xFear + ppd. It's been this way since Ti3 including the 4 throwers + Fear phase of EG that didn't qualify for the International. I love Fear, and think he is one of the most solid flexible players, but EG were never really successful, outside a very few tournaments like Dreamhack. Whether it was the starstudded EG from 2012, or the 3rd tier players that filled the roster for ages, that earned the "throw meme".
TI3 was the phase where they didn't qualify, nor even got an invite, and Valve felt that Dignitas had done more, as EG won nothing, and participated very little(which they have done always). It wasn't until they got a solid roster, and PPD+Fear leadership combo they achieved something, while having one of the most stable rosters in the scene.
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On May 12 2016 08:40 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 07:54 TanGeng wrote:On May 12 2016 07:00 1godless wrote:
Everyday that passes makes me realize that Fear is the best player on EG. He is so solid and makes quiet but important plays all game every game. Sumail has his Sufail moments and you can point to a number of PPD off games (CM against Newbee anyone?). Aui is adjusting and his sven/ls always makes me nervous and Bulbu shines on DS but has lapses like getting caught super hard as BM in g2 against VP.
But Fear is always involved and rarely feeds for free. His ES is also super solid despite the common notion that as an older player his mechanics have suffered.
Basically Fear is a total beast and I love his play I would get behind 5xFear clones playing all the roles. Maybe you do 4xFear + ppd. It's been this way since Ti3 including the 4 throwers + Fear phase of EG that didn't qualify for the International. I love Fear, and think he is one of the most solid flexible players, but EG were never really successful, outside a very few tournaments like Dreamhack. Whether it was the starstudded EG from 2012, or the 3rd tier players that filled the roster for ages, that earned the "throw meme". TI3 was the phase where they didn't qualify, nor even got an invite, and Valve felt that Dignitas had done more, as EG won nothing, and participated very little(which they have done always). It wasn't until they got a solid roster, and PPD+Fear leadership combo they achieved something, while having one of the most stable rosters in the scene.
Pre-TI3 EG was, more or less, on par with Dignitas and Liquid in terms of results. Liquid had online results which made up for their lackluster LAN performance, and at least Qualified over other western teams. Head-to-head, though, the three teams were more or less even, so it was fairly arbitrary that Dignitas got the invite over EG (and given results, you can't really say EG would've performed worse in TI3 than Dignitas, or the Western qualifier Mouz).
Which isn't to say that any of them were good, because they were all quite mediocre.
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Sanya12364 Posts
If I would characterize each of the NA teams:
Dignitas was a farmy throw-fest featuring #sneyking; they picked greedy and dodged fights for ages while sneyking did sneyking things in either snowballing or chain feeding. The "Sumail getting lost alone in the jungle" incident against NewBee was pretty much a given and could happen multiple times a game. I think that Dignitas was aided by the fact that PotmB didn't get a qualifier spot the year before.
Evil Genius was a playmaker's throw fest with Daemon Jeyo and Bamboe just DGAF fighting. While Fear wondered where he had to be to keep his team in fighting shape. Whendidegthrowlast was the result of this era of EG gaming; EG was glorious in frequency of throw and ability to out-throw opponents. When Evil Geniuses were focused and practice, they were more than a matched for the other teams.
Liquid... well... Liquid was more often a strategy of picking strong heroes without real regard for synergy; they were copycats and might not even have understood the tactical and strategic underpinnings in B/P and movement. And their own ideas of synergy were some weird stuff that was highly questionable.
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On May 12 2016 08:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 08:40 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 12 2016 07:54 TanGeng wrote:On May 12 2016 07:00 1godless wrote:
Everyday that passes makes me realize that Fear is the best player on EG. He is so solid and makes quiet but important plays all game every game. Sumail has his Sufail moments and you can point to a number of PPD off games (CM against Newbee anyone?). Aui is adjusting and his sven/ls always makes me nervous and Bulbu shines on DS but has lapses like getting caught super hard as BM in g2 against VP.
But Fear is always involved and rarely feeds for free. His ES is also super solid despite the common notion that as an older player his mechanics have suffered.
Basically Fear is a total beast and I love his play I would get behind 5xFear clones playing all the roles. Maybe you do 4xFear + ppd. It's been this way since Ti3 including the 4 throwers + Fear phase of EG that didn't qualify for the International. I love Fear, and think he is one of the most solid flexible players, but EG were never really successful, outside a very few tournaments like Dreamhack. Whether it was the starstudded EG from 2012, or the 3rd tier players that filled the roster for ages, that earned the "throw meme". TI3 was the phase where they didn't qualify, nor even got an invite, and Valve felt that Dignitas had done more, as EG won nothing, and participated very little(which they have done always). It wasn't until they got a solid roster, and PPD+Fear leadership combo they achieved something, while having one of the most stable rosters in the scene. Pre-TI3 EG was, more or less, on par with Dignitas and Liquid in terms of results. Liquid had online results which made up for their lackluster LAN performance, and at least Qualified over other western teams. Head-to-head, though, the three teams were more or less even, so it was fairly arbitrary that Dignitas got the invite over EG (and given results, you can't really say EG would've performed worse in TI3 than Dignitas, or the Western qualifier Mouz). Which isn't to say that any of them were good, because they were all quite mediocre. Actually I argued for EG to have the nodge over Dignitas, due to EGs Lan results in the past, as well as Valve's tournaments, but Valve felt it was undeserved, and handed it to Dignitas, that had done slightly better and more at online tournaments. TL participated more, and did more than the two others. It was a question between Dignitas and EG. It was one of the few times, where Valve took at stand against a big team with a huge following, and gave the shot to a lesser team.
They were not on par, it was merely a matter if you valued EGs Lan efforts highly, while Dignitas had nearly, if not zero Lan experience.
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can someone tldr me whats happening? wtf are they looking at in their booths?
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EPT
