[The Summit 4] LAN Finals Day 1 - Page 28

Chewbacca.

United States3634 Posts

December 10 2015 03:36 GMT

#541

On December 10 2015 12:30 Emnjay808 wrote:
Just got home from school after catching OG losging game 1 to VS carry.

What happened game 2?

PLS SOMEONE TLDR ME

Huskar + Dazzle + Blink Tusk for additional saves is strong.

dutchfriese

2554 Posts

December 10 2015 03:44 GMT

#542

On December 10 2015 12:28 FuzzyJAM wrote:

Show nested quote +

Totally contradicting yourself.

Anyway, here is what OG needed for an offlaner: someone who wasn't going to constantly die in lane - didn't need to risk himself because it's fine to be mostly starved, even in levels. Further, someone who is good at initiation despite not having an item, and also good at counter-initiation, and also good at scouting. Because they did not have this, Venge could rely on kills and Bounty to keep her up in networth (key weakness of VG draft), and also OG had no vision for the constant swaps. Further, because of the importance and lack of proper ways of dealing with the Swaps and other disables, SF had to build tanky - which meant he wasn't doing damage. Tiny doing damage is not actually a particularly good thing - OG already had damaging hereos, they needed an offlaner to allow their cores to build for that and unleash it, not spread out who was doing damage.

There you go, that's an extremely brief semi-drunk analysis. No doubt yours is much deeper, but given that you've literally said there's no way a Clock would dream of building a Force I'm not too fussed.

You should try reading my posts. My case for Tiny the entire time has been his ability to clear stacks. It didn't really matter which melee offlane hero they put in that lane, it was going to get destroyed no matter what. Here's the key difference between clockwork and Tiny, one can farm and one cannot. Ergo Clock would have never even come close to farming as much as a Tiny in that particular game.

Between track, being forced out of lane, 3 ranged heroes, nether swap, and snowball, there just wasn't that much merit to the clockwerk pick. It should be fairly obvious why they decided not to pick him.

snow2.0

Germany2073 Posts

December 10 2015 03:48 GMT

#543

What are these tiny bottles everyone has sitting next to them at the PCs?
Water? Why is it portioned so small?

synapse

China13814 Posts

December 10 2015 03:50 GMT

#544

On December 10 2015 12:48 snow2.0 wrote:
What are these tiny bottles everyone has sitting next to them at the PCs?
Water? Why is it portioned so small?

drought in cali

Azarkon

United States21060 Posts

December 10 2015 03:51 GMT

#545

I'm pretty sure VG also won the first game, and lost the next two during the last tournament against this line up.

stuchiu

Fiddler's Green42661 Posts

December 10 2015 03:53 GMT

#546

how was g2?

FuzzyJAM

Scotland9300 Posts

December 10 2015 03:57 GMT

#547

On December 10 2015 12:44 dutchfriese wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 10 2015 12:28 FuzzyJAM wrote:

On December 10 2015 12:19 dutchfriese wrote:

On December 10 2015 12:14 FuzzyJAM wrote:

On December 10 2015 12:12 dutchfriese wrote:

On December 10 2015 12:10 FuzzyJAM wrote:

On December 10 2015 12:00 dutchfriese wrote:

On December 10 2015 11:46 FuzzyJAM wrote:

On December 10 2015 11:42 dutchfriese wrote:

On December 10 2015 11:37 FuzzyJAM wrote:
[quote]
Clock is perfect.

Unless I'm stupid and it was banned?

Clock works i guess, until he's tracked all game and nobody is afraid of him.

It's easy to shit on the tiny pick, but he was doing a lot of work in that game. He had quite a bit of farm and was absolutely pulling his weight despite being in an impossible lane to start.

He did next to nothing of importance aside from help Venge get to a good start by being useless in lane.

If you saw "next to nothing of importance" then you aren't a very sophisticated dota viewer. Sorry.

Tell us all the important things he did.

Doing as much damage as SF while providing all kinds of utility via lotus orb / force staff, items he would have never even dreamed of buying as a clockwork in that particular game.

Literally just called me an "unsophisticated viewer" whilst saying Clock would never dream of buying Force.

OK then.

I'm sure clock would have gotten a force, and 12 deaths to his name. Probably near dead last in net worth as well.

And I called you an unsophisticated viewer because your comment was a laughable observation of the game that took place.

An offlaner being able to clear stacks is good when you have an SF and PL on your team because. . .? You think they needed more jungling ability? Oh well, OK.

For my part, I'd say they needed a hero who was OK without farming, e.g. Clock, who, as I said, doesn't mind if he's starved in lane and is fundamentally about enabling without items. An offlaner who doesn't need to risk himself early, has strong initiation without items and strong counter-initiation and vision were what they needed way more than your argument that they needed an offlaner who could jungle quick. Clock is sacrificial and they needed at least one sacrifice for that draft.

(I also think Nightstalker would work well too, for the record - maybe moreso, I'm not sure. Vision was really really really important.)

But oh well, I don't think we're going to reach agreement here and we're onto game 3.