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On August 06 2015 16:17 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 16:10 mutantmagnet wrote:On August 06 2015 15:49 DucK- wrote:
The razor pick is so simple I don't understand why people don't get it. You don't have to worry about dealing with farned pl when you're not looking to reach that stage anyway. Razor by nature is a very risky pick because you need a significant advantage in mid game, otherwise he becomes irrelevant. The risk was understood which is why the question was raised. Throughout the tournament we've seen teams come back by holding high ground and taking a good fight there or elsewhere later on. It doesn't always work out but I was concerned about EG' ability to continue playing at more stages of the game beyond mid. Looking at the hero pool there really isn't a good substitute that can siege, be self sufficient in lane and have decent farming speed. Shadowfiend? Not much of pusher to begin with. Troll Warlord? Not as great farming speed. Also easier to nuke down. Dragon knight? Wouldn't have laned as well and farming speed isn't any better. I guess Razor was their best option. EG didn't need to push high ground because ehome completely misjudged their position (not once but twice) , they left their base and got caught with their pants down.I don't think it's wise to rely on every single shackle shot not missing and doing huge work, but who knows, maybe ppd knew that the game would go like this all along.
Every minute they were falling further behind. Of course they had to make a move. It's not though phantom lancer just wins past fifty minutes. He has to find farm to do it. But each time he went out, he died. They were getting too little farm.
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On August 06 2015 16:16 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 16:07 snow2.0 wrote:On August 06 2015 16:03 Rebs wrote:On August 06 2015 15:49 Supamang wrote:On August 06 2015 15:47 DucK- wrote:
It may be a low action game, but don't blame eg for it. Blame ehome for turtling and not wanting to come out. If ehome was always out of their side of the map, I'm sure eg would be happy to take fights. Can't really blame EHOME either. Without the farm they couldn't really risk much. Without the map control the couldn't really farm, and then with EGs lineup they couldn't really get map control. It was really well done by EG Yea I dont understand what there is to "blame". The game was very interesting to me. The movements across the map the turtling the control The one thing i'd blame EHOME for was not commiting to their turtle choice. I believe the straw that broke their back was getting caught out with 2 heroes toplane outside of the base and losing 2 more in the ensuing panic, then spending 3 buybacks and losing 1 more to gain 1 kill on sumail. Like, if they're going walk out of base to get caught out 30 minutes into the game, why couldn't they have tried to do something before you let EG farm the entire map for 15 minutes? Other than that, yea. What do. Getting into that kind of position would have preferably been avoided in the first place, but EG played very well. Yeah I agree, but the thing is its not that easy to turtle and also play catchup, especially because of the way EG played. Generally the thing your mentioning has happened because teams who were leading either drafted way to all in ish or just went CIS ham. EG did neither. Before the game when I saw the draft from EHome looked super solid. They had everything, decent team fight good late game. They could play to any situation. What happened was that EG simply outplayed them. Aui for example knew that they would protect the cour so he hardly even bothered to deal with and instead went for the FB which was massive at that point because Razor got far enough ahead to play that lane himself comfortably. Lanm on the other hand spent forever hugging trees. So for me its an amalgam of these little plays and nuanced decision making that was the difference between these teams. And ofc Sumail shitting on CTY.
You mean Aui played Bounty correctly?
EG executed a preset plan really well but the onus of execution was on EHOME from the start. The draft was at least 55-45 in favour of EG and pushing 60-40 depending on an individual's opinions in certain hero match ups. There were no spectacular individual plays needed from EG and none happened unless you consider invis rune shackle shots a spectacular play.
PPD keeps everybody in their comfort zone. He sets the stage. By the time we saw SuMail solo kill after solo kill, the stage has been set for 10 minutes for that to happen.
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On August 06 2015 16:23 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 16:20 Rebs wrote:On August 06 2015 16:17 IshinShishi wrote:On August 06 2015 16:10 mutantmagnet wrote:On August 06 2015 15:49 DucK- wrote:
The razor pick is so simple I don't understand why people don't get it. You don't have to worry about dealing with farned pl when you're not looking to reach that stage anyway. Razor by nature is a very risky pick because you need a significant advantage in mid game, otherwise he becomes irrelevant. The risk was understood which is why the question was raised. Throughout the tournament we've seen teams come back by holding high ground and taking a good fight there or elsewhere later on. It doesn't always work out but I was concerned about EG' ability to continue playing at more stages of the game beyond mid. Looking at the hero pool there really isn't a good substitute that can siege, be self sufficient in lane and have decent farming speed. Shadowfiend? Not much of pusher to begin with. Troll Warlord? Not as great farming speed. Also easier to nuke down. Dragon knight? Wouldn't have laned as well and farming speed isn't any better. I guess Razor was their best option. EG didn't need to push high ground because ehome completely misjudged their position (not once but twice) , they left their base and got caught with their pants down.I don't think it's wise to rely on every single shackle shot not missing and doing huge work, but who knows, maybe ppd knew that the game would go like this all along. I just mentioned this but the thing is, if you look back at the game, it wasnt like Ehome "just" sat on high ground. They took small risks and pushed out in lanes when they felt it was safe. They tried to scrap every bit of map control they could with the gem and ward denials and avoid fights. But eventually you are going to make a mistake if the other team plays their deck right because they have all the cards. Thats what happened. The game ended quicker than it probably should have though because Ehome made a mistake but i dont think I saw it ending any other way. EG wouldve slow seiged them out of it regardless. The thing is, in theory they didn't need to do anything except defend high ground, there are only so many item slots for EG to fill and they were doing fine-ish despite the sumail show.In all honesty I'm glad they lost, the better team got through.
Yes but the net worths werent progressing at a good enough clip for EHome either. It doesnt matter what lineup you pick if the other team maxes out slots and your at 3 or 4 on a couple of cores and the rest are piss poor you will lose a high ground siege.
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There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk.
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On August 06 2015 16:24 Reson wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 16:16 Rebs wrote:On August 06 2015 16:07 snow2.0 wrote:On August 06 2015 16:03 Rebs wrote:On August 06 2015 15:49 Supamang wrote:On August 06 2015 15:47 DucK- wrote:
It may be a low action game, but don't blame eg for it. Blame ehome for turtling and not wanting to come out. If ehome was always out of their side of the map, I'm sure eg would be happy to take fights. Can't really blame EHOME either. Without the farm they couldn't really risk much. Without the map control the couldn't really farm, and then with EGs lineup they couldn't really get map control. It was really well done by EG Yea I dont understand what there is to "blame". The game was very interesting to me. The movements across the map the turtling the control The one thing i'd blame EHOME for was not commiting to their turtle choice. I believe the straw that broke their back was getting caught out with 2 heroes toplane outside of the base and losing 2 more in the ensuing panic, then spending 3 buybacks and losing 1 more to gain 1 kill on sumail. Like, if they're going walk out of base to get caught out 30 minutes into the game, why couldn't they have tried to do something before you let EG farm the entire map for 15 minutes? Other than that, yea. What do. Getting into that kind of position would have preferably been avoided in the first place, but EG played very well. Yeah I agree, but the thing is its not that easy to turtle and also play catchup, especially because of the way EG played. Generally the thing your mentioning has happened because teams who were leading either drafted way to all in ish or just went CIS ham. EG did neither. Before the game when I saw the draft from EHome looked super solid. They had everything, decent team fight good late game. They could play to any situation. What happened was that EG simply outplayed them. Aui for example knew that they would protect the cour so he hardly even bothered to deal with and instead went for the FB which was massive at that point because Razor got far enough ahead to play that lane himself comfortably. Lanm on the other hand spent forever hugging trees. So for me its an amalgam of these little plays and nuanced decision making that was the difference between these teams. And ofc Sumail shitting on CTY. You mean Aui played Bounty correctly? EG executed a preset plan really well but the onus of execution was on EHOME from the start. The draft was at least 55-45 in favour of EG and pushing 60-40 depending on an individual's opinions in certain hero match ups. There were no spectacular individual plays needed from EG and none happened unless you consider invis rune shackle shots a spectacular play. PPD keeps everybody in their comfort zone. He sets the stage. By the time we saw SuMail solo kill after solo kill, the stage has been set for 10 minutes for that to happen.
Yes he played it correctly. But it was just an example of the many small things you could gather from that game which were so entertaining to watch. And please you cant sit there with your full map view and then say its easy to make those plays correctly. I dont think it was as preset as you think.
The picks were geared towards winning lanes though your right.
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I only watched the first Secret game and thought they weren't gonna make it, how were the other 2 games?
Also EG best team in the World
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On August 06 2015 16:05 FakeDeath wrote:
Based on the games so far
Safe to say Pony Bounty Lancer Gyro are gonna get the nerf hammer?
I know this is not going to happen, but I really think it's time for the reactive nerfing to stop.
Personally, I think it's just highly unlikely that those heroes won't be "solved" within a couple of months. I wish developers/designers could just learn to ignore the whining fanbase for a little longer at least. All games would be better off.
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On August 06 2015 16:25 CptMarvel wrote:
There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk.
Except this isn't the case at all. You need to watch the Chinese in LoL to understand why "this is just how they are" is completely ridiculous.
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On August 06 2015 16:24 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 16:23 IshinShishi wrote:On August 06 2015 16:20 Rebs wrote:On August 06 2015 16:17 IshinShishi wrote:On August 06 2015 16:10 mutantmagnet wrote:On August 06 2015 15:49 DucK- wrote:
The razor pick is so simple I don't understand why people don't get it. You don't have to worry about dealing with farned pl when you're not looking to reach that stage anyway. Razor by nature is a very risky pick because you need a significant advantage in mid game, otherwise he becomes irrelevant. The risk was understood which is why the question was raised. Throughout the tournament we've seen teams come back by holding high ground and taking a good fight there or elsewhere later on. It doesn't always work out but I was concerned about EG' ability to continue playing at more stages of the game beyond mid. Looking at the hero pool there really isn't a good substitute that can siege, be self sufficient in lane and have decent farming speed. Shadowfiend? Not much of pusher to begin with. Troll Warlord? Not as great farming speed. Also easier to nuke down. Dragon knight? Wouldn't have laned as well and farming speed isn't any better. I guess Razor was their best option. EG didn't need to push high ground because ehome completely misjudged their position (not once but twice) , they left their base and got caught with their pants down.I don't think it's wise to rely on every single shackle shot not missing and doing huge work, but who knows, maybe ppd knew that the game would go like this all along. I just mentioned this but the thing is, if you look back at the game, it wasnt like Ehome "just" sat on high ground. They took small risks and pushed out in lanes when they felt it was safe. They tried to scrap every bit of map control they could with the gem and ward denials and avoid fights. But eventually you are going to make a mistake if the other team plays their deck right because they have all the cards. Thats what happened. The game ended quicker than it probably should have though because Ehome made a mistake but i dont think I saw it ending any other way. EG wouldve slow seiged them out of it regardless. The thing is, in theory they didn't need to do anything except defend high ground, there are only so many item slots for EG to fill and they were doing fine-ish despite the sumail show.In all honesty I'm glad they lost, the better team got through. Yes but the net worths werent progressing at a good enough clip for EHome either. It doesnt matter what lineup you pick if the other team maxes out slots and your at 3 or 4 on a couple of cores and the rest are piss poor you will lose a high ground siege.
It was within recoverable boundaries, EG's comp was bad enough at sieging to justify full turtle mode.
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On August 06 2015 16:25 CptMarvel wrote:
There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk.
Wow try to hide it a little bit at least. Like azarkon
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On August 06 2015 16:25 CptMarvel wrote:
There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk.
Even if we ignore 2014 DK I wouldn't say Chinese dota was boring.
2012 IG was great for their hyper aggression and diving followed up with objectives. 2013 LGD was impressive with their fuck you we don't care about winning lanes because we'll always beat you with team fights confidence. Even lesser teams like Rattlesnake and CIS made things interesting with one team actually defining the meta for awhile and the other giving us a taste of what 2014 DK would actually be like when Lanm can captain a team with players that had the skill to execute his plans.
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How the hell did IG win game 1
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On August 06 2015 16:25 CptMarvel wrote:
There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk.
Wow, so we've finally gotten to this point lol
I'd love to get in an argument with you about the problem with generalizing entire populations but seeing as youre French you'll probably just give up at start anyway 
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On August 06 2015 16:34 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 16:25 CptMarvel wrote:
There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk. Wow, so we've finally gotten to this point lol
disgusting rice doto
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
this is amazing, im seeing azarkon defend the chinese
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Chinese Dota is the way it is because this is how the old, famous players played and they have a huge effect on how teams are run and how new players in their teams play. When those players aren't around - for example CDEC - they don't play this way.
It has been obvious to me for years that the lack of new ideas in Chinese Dota is due to the lack of new talent. Teams made up of new talent play differently than teams made up of old talent. The same is the case in the West. A few famous teams decide what the other teams play, and till a few specific people came to Dota in 2013 and 2014, the West played a different way.
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On August 06 2015 16:25 CptMarvel wrote:
There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk.
have you watched CDEC play at all ?
Agressif dived a t2 to kill a support when he was 10k gold behind. The chinese make most of the early games rotations. Like i know most of you are clueless about dota but still, you must have seen that
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Do remember that eg were always 1-2 bad team fights away from losing the game. The high ground siege had to be perfect, and it was.
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sorry EHOME fans
everyone I cheer for loses
this TI has been so incredibly depressing
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 06 2015 16:25 CptMarvel wrote:
There's no denying that eastern DOTA has, historically, been a lot less entertaining than its western counterpart. It's really not surprising if you know chinese people, that's just the way they are : way too serious and not inclined to take any risk.
i think it's plenty deniable and you are making ridiculous generalisations
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EPT
