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[ESL ONE] Frankfurt Main Event Day 2 - Page 47
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:33 Orome wrote: Yeah I think that's the most significant change this year. The West was always competitive with their top teams, but this seems to be the first year where they outclass China in terms of depth. If they up their game, iG and LGD both have the potential to make it far, but they might just as well lose to the second guard of EU teams. And while VG remains a complete mess, China doesn't even have one team they can bank on to be a serious title challenger. I think I made a post on GG.net back in March saying that the Western advantage this year is quantity of top teams. Another way of saying depth. But yeah, not even fun now to talk shit about Chinese Dota. Too obvious. I think I need a different line. Hmm... Korean Dota to upset this year? | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:57 Kishin2 wrote: How can EG beat Secret? Has Secret shown any weakness? Yes, fairly one-dimensional drafts if you pay attention closely. They are masked by larger hero pools than back at DAC but concepts are fairly similar. Expect s4 to do stupid shit if EG are to win this. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:39 lolnoty wrote: he literally was a step above if you consider that he changed the mid meta and many teams scrambled to get their mids to learn to play the heroes he did. being ahead in the optimal way to play a role is definitely "a step ahead" The change to the mid meta was more a product of Universe than of Arteezy. Universe was the one that showed that with the changes to offlane, you could actually direct the tempo of the game entirely out of the offlane (while many teams were stuck in the mindset that, as prior to the change, the offlaner is still a follow-up hero that needs to piggyback off of a tempo mid), which is what allowed EG to stably draft those kinds of heroes for Arteezy mid. | ||
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Elurie
4716 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:52 toemn wrote: I hope the caster duos of this tournament will do most games at TI5 aswell. Can anyone imagine Lumi, Ayesee, LD casting the games of ESLOne? ODPixel is alright I guess. Blitz, Cap, Synderen, Tobi work so well together. Are you high... Cap is better than LD? Besides, LD is practically a Tobi without the accent. WOAW! (I love Synd+LD combo personally) | ||
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MushyHumus
41 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:57 Azarkon wrote: I think I made a post on GG.net back in March saying that the Western advantage this year is quantity of top teams. Another way of saying depth. But yeah, not even remotely fun now to talk shit about Chinese Dota. Too mainstream. I think I need a different line. Hmm... Korean Dota to upset this year? Korean dota won't make it to top 8 but i hope to be proven wrong. They still lack experience and they are having hard time to find decent team to scrim. Moreover, there's next to no tournament this year in Korea. Even if there was, the matches were a joke because the top korean team win by a landslide against everyone else. | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:53 Orome wrote: It's such a pointless argument to make. He pushed boundaries, noone would deny that. But to call him clearly or easily better at the time than Fy, than MMY... It's just not a useful discussion. Plus in Arteezy's case (at least at the time) the qualifier 'when he's at 100%' is a pretty gigantic one. Of course a player who takes a crapton of risks is going to look incredible when they all pay off. He was doing stuff no one was doing. He was doing it from a position no one did it. He was doing it while being camped and ganked. And he was being more efficient than anyone at the same time. Oh he's being camped by 2 or 3 people mid, he's dying, and he's still top of the net worth. If thats the case he's flat out better. Right now he's where he was then, the single most dominant player there is. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:57 Azarkon wrote: I think I made a post on GG.net back in March saying that the Western advantage this year is quantity of top teams. Another way of saying depth. But yeah, not even fun now to talk shit about Chinese Dota. Too mainstream. I think I need a different line. Hmm... Korean Dota to upset this year? I would hop on that one. As someone coming from BW and Sc2, dota master race China has been severely disappointing. I need new overlords. | ||
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Oddball28
Denmark2121 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
But seriously Lysander + Xyclopz would be GODLIKE | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On June 21 2015 23:00 MushyHumus wrote: Korean dota won't make it to top 8 but i hope to be proven wrong. They still lack experience and they are having hard time to find decent team to scrim. Moreover, there's next to no tournament this year in Korea. Even if there was, the matches were a joke because the top korean team win by a landslide against everyone else. I don't see them finishing top 3, but one of the advantages that I think about with respect to MVP is that they have their own ideas and strategies, and aren't afraid to analyze the shit out of other teams while giving very little info themselves - precisely because of the lack of tournaments. Korean work ethic in eSports is not to be underrated, and importantly they have a scrim system in which they aren't just motivated by tournaments, but are willing to cooperate with other Korean teams to improve together, rather than treating each other as enemies the way the other regions' teams do. That said, it's a long shot for sure, because SEA and China are both in a terrible state and those are the only scrim partners Korean teams have outside of their own tiny scene. | ||
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goody153
44237 Posts
On June 21 2015 22:49 Danzo wrote: It's amazing EG is still a top tier even after their two major players left. PPD as a captain and drafter can shape up any team. People give Sumail shit, but just from this tournament alone, he's already progressing into a much more solid player then his "yolo" plays we've seen over the few months. Of course I can probably eat my own words during this grand finals, but I think there's a consensus of giving this kid way more shit than he deserves. honestly since ppd has a compentent support partner (Aui) and a very stable cores (universe and fear) it's not that hard for him nobodies giving him shit he's really good and he gets the job done well and even more than expected but that doesn't excuse him from the random feeds he does when he gets compared to other mid solo (rtz, s4, fata) On June 21 2015 23:08 Azarkon wrote: I don't see them finishing top 3, but one of the advantages that I think about with respect to MVP is that they have their own ideas and strategies, and aren't afraid to analyze the shit out of other teams while giving very little info themselves - precisely because of the lack of tournaments. Korean work ethic in eSports is not to be underrated, and importantly they have a scrim system in which they aren't just motivated by tournaments, but are willing to cooperate with other Korean teams to improve together, rather than treating each other as enemies the way the other regions' teams do. That said, it's a long shot for sure, because SEA and China are both in a terrible state and those are the only scrim partners Korean teams have outside of their own tiny scene. one thing about dota scrims is that most teams don't actually give a shit about scrims or aka they don't take it too seriously your favorite team secret .. they won 2 tournaments without scrimming a single match and they placed horribly bad(8th place) a tournament when they scrimed an entire month (last starladder) mental conditioning is probably extremely important more than practice will ever be | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
Scrims are, however, necessary for teams that aren't at the top of the meta, and want to get there. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
Aui its pretty much as good as Zai, and while i do find rtz better than suma1l its barely significant. | ||
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goody153
44237 Posts
On June 21 2015 23:16 Azarkon wrote: Scrims aren't necessary for Secret because they already have such a great understanding of the game and just need to keep up their mechanics in pubs. Scrims are, however, necessary for teams that aren't at the top of the meta, and want to get there. old eg didn't practice shit when they were on internal conflict mode and they are still winning tournaments .. newbee also won tournaments before their complacent attitude towards dota 2 and addiction to wc3 custom games finally took them out On June 21 2015 23:17 Faruko wrote: I mean, yes 2 major players left but its not like their new support and mid are complete morons at playing this game. Aui its pretty much as good as Zai, and while i do find rtz better than suma1l its barely significant. Yeah both replacement are still pretty fucking good. But i think the 2 players are kinda different players like suma1l plays proper mid which artour completely don't do anymore and i think aui is a downgrade to zai but aui has his own feats too | ||
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traumatism
Singapore3728 Posts
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Elurie
4716 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On June 21 2015 23:19 goody153 wrote: old eg didn't practice shit when they were on internal conflict mode and they are still winning tournaments .. newbee also won tournaments before their complacent attitude towards dota 2 and addiction to wc3 custom games finally took them out Great examples, to be sure: Old EG -> dropped out 4th at Summit 2 -> broke up shortly after Newbee -> bottom 2 at DAC -> broke up shortly after | ||
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