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On June 22 2015 12:58 trifecta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 12:02 Alpino wrote:On June 22 2015 05:13 Azarkon wrote:On June 22 2015 05:02 cecek wrote:On June 22 2015 04:59 Azarkon wrote:
$15 million tournament has a way of dealing with egos.
Course, they're going to be the first team to disband after it. I don't see Secret sticking together after TI 5, no matter whether they win/lose. why not? Just a feeling I have about the players on this team. They're all too successful to want to work through the TI curse and the slump that's sure to hit after TI 5. Puppey's Na'Vi changed its roster three times in three years. S4, while he did stick with Alliance for a year after 2013, ultimately lost his patience with that team, too, along with EGM. They've been there, done that, so I think they know what occurs to TI winning teams. They'd want to end on a positive, rather than a negative, and there's no sponsor obligations in this case. And in case they don't win TI, then they've failed the very goal for which this team was created. I don't think they love each other so much that they'd stick around after that. Why would they quit after winning TI if they can keep playing the highest level of dota and keep making money? Because of some hocus-pocus slump? Not like DotA is an old sport with old traditions.Team Secret seems to be way more flexible than Alliance, I see no reason for them to split up that are not the following: A) not being able to compete at the highest level B) internal issues I'm not saying they're necessarily in for the long run, just saying that splitting up after winning TI when they would be the team most well equipped to KEEP winning and KEEP making bank(dont forget the majors!) is a really REALLY poor decision tbf icefrog basically nerfed Alliance's playstyle and drafts right after ti3. Since icefrog usually nerfs or deemphasizes stuff that was dominant at TI, it's hard for the winning team to stay at the top.
Even if that may be the case, Secret still will do well imo. They have a number of factors in their favor.
1) They have the best carry in the world (Arteezy), top 2 offlaner (Zai is 2nd best after universe imo), best support duo atm (ppy and kky) and a very solid mid (s4) and they can basically outskill the enemy team even if they lose the draft hard (like in the IG game with their anti-mage)
2) s4 is the best shotcaller in dota. He won with an Alliance team who was known for their ability to win games even if they get outdrafted or outlaned or go into the late game at a significant disadvantage, and Secret are the same, because of his shotcalling.
3) They dont have any massive egos that can create internal issues. kky zai and s4 are all really calm guys, arteezy may be slightly flamboyant but he does not seem to have ego issues, idk about puppey but it doesnt seem like he has any either.
4) Theirs is a team that was created specifically to win, so that alone will make them stick together. Between them ppy and kuro came 1st in the first TI and second in the next two and they still wanted more so they made this team. s4 too is kinda in the same boat. rtz and zai are just starting their careers but they were quite successful with EG so I don't think they will get complacent after a single TI win.
5) Their understanding of the game is strong enough to be able to dominate any patch.
6) The teams they came from all had different styles so they should be comfortable with most styles of play. Old EG were all about that greed but post TI their deathpush lineups were really strong as well, like that one game where they forced a 9 min gg our of Na'Vi, old Na'Vi was a really strong playmaking team that worked around dominating the early game and getting a fuck ton of kills.
Basically the only team that comes close to Secret right now is EG, who can only win if ppd engineers a significant outdraft and Sumail doesn't tilt. IG have Burning and Chuan but as their game showed, they still cannot match TS for skill player for player, which only EG and Vici can do. Vici do have skills, but their style is just too aggressive to work against a team that plays calculated dota like secret, and the fact that they got 2-0'd by EG shows that even if you have all the player skill in the world, a bad draft and bad shotcalling will result in a loss.
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On June 22 2015 13:45 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 13:42 Danzo wrote:On June 22 2015 04:01 Daralii wrote:On June 22 2015 04:01 sirreginold wrote:
EG is one good carry player from getting to the next level. Nah, they also need a good mid. What? Once again we're back to people giving Sumail shit all over again. Can't excuse him for buildings aghs on zeus.
Idk about that, its a very popular and natural build for zeus with if you're going aghs refresher you can basically kill the supports in one go. He just got it too late that game. Also I still prefer sumails build to s4's dagon zeus
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 22 2015 13:52 manicmessiah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 13:45 lolfail9001 wrote:On June 22 2015 13:42 Danzo wrote:On June 22 2015 04:01 Daralii wrote:On June 22 2015 04:01 sirreginold wrote:
EG is one good carry player from getting to the next level. Nah, they also need a good mid. What? Once again we're back to people giving Sumail shit all over again. Can't excuse him for buildings aghs on zeus. Idk about that, its a very popular and natural build for zeus with if you're going aghs refresher you can basically kill the supports in one go. He just got it too late that game. Also I still prefer sumails build to s4's dagon zeus
I mean, he was not farming well at all (not easy to do when every bit of farm on map you can get is taken by AM but whatever) and then was not even using aghs ult other than for scouting. Going straight refresher would be better, dare i say.
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Sanya12364 Posts
If you want to blame anyone, you blame Universe and Fear for losing lanes so hard across the games. But in that Zeus game, it was mostly universe losing 1v1 against RTZ, while Puppey basically AFK jungled. If Secret didn't mess up so bad trying to 3v5 or 4v5 the midgame, it would have been game losing all by itself.
Universe game losing laning isn't even an isolated incident.
1. Zai is the best offlaner in the west. Universe is basically an exercise in surviving the lanes and making up the difference in the midgame.
2. Sumail is a better mid than Artezzy because of Artezzy's AFK farming tendencies. Think of how much PPD must have had to yell at RTZ to join the fights for deathballs.
3. Fear is solid but doesn't win games by himself at all. Not a bad player, but you might want more impact here.
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I'm pretty sure rtz's afk farming tendencies is a team decision, there are plenty of games where he joins fights early or roams (there were several Gyro games where he'd hit 6 and then go smoke up and gank supports in the enemy jungle).
Not sure why you'd compare a first position safelane player's fight participation to that of a second position player though.
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http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/news/31582-zai-may-take-a-year-off-dota-2-after-ti5
"The future of Secret was discussed, Zai seemed pessimistic that Secret will stay together after TI5, revealing that "even if we play well, we may see some change. I may take a year off after TI." He also adds that he in the event that he does take a break, he will only be gone for 9-10 months to focus on his education before returning to the Dota2 scene."
As I thought, Secret is not the sort of roster that simply stays together.
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A team with RTZ on it that has flagging interpersonal chemistry?
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EPT
