|
Please do not derail the thread with discussions or accusations of racism.
Throwaway caster bashing posts will also be actioned.
No accusations of matchfixing. |
On July 22 2014 07:12 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 06:38 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
This was the best TI thus far, overall. It was far more competitive than the past ones, which means more surprises and more interesting matches. The meta was wide open, more heroes were picked, some frequently picked heroes came out of no where (Skywrath), and none of the frequently picked heroes were dominant in their win rates. Even though they ultimately lost the finals, VG was probably the highest performing team, and who expected that? On the other hand, the worst team, Arrow, still gave us some awesome moments with DDZ's daunting Invoker play.
TI3 was basically a contest between Alliance and Na'Vi to see who was better at using Batrider, Wisp, and Visage. Orange is the only team that added any spice to that. People are people nostalgic about shit that never happened. It's saudade.
EDIT: I said best TI4 >_> Strongly disagree. Using only 1 strat 3 times in a row in the grand finals loosing all 3 games was horrible. It also speaks volumes to me about how the top teams (because the top teams were in the finals, right?) view the current state of the game. Apparently that one strat was deemed so good that no other strat was valid to even atempt. Newbie just happened to be better at said strat (they also fielded early game fight). The fact that split push, anti push or greed was not even attempted in the finals tells me that the top teams doesn't view either of these as a valid strat at the moment. So, no, this was not the best TI ever, it was not the best Esports tournament ever. The only thing it was the best at was prize pool money. This was not Newbee or VGs fault however. They just did the best to win, and if one strat is that much stronger you field it over and over hoping to get the better execution (Newbee clearly was superior there). If VG had fielded anything else they would just had lost just as hard if not harder to the same early game fight oriented style of Newbee. The games might have been slightly longer but the outcome would have been just as assured. This is what was shown by the other games of the tournament where teams with great skill and teamwork beat their heads bloody (and got eliminated) against that strat. The better at drafting and executing the face rush early game strats would win this finals. This is what made the finals one sided and the tournament loose hype. And this is Icefrogs fault (or Valve if you want), noone elses. They absolutely hated the split push style of last year that created the best tournament ever and nerfed it to oblivion, and they got just what they wanted (deserver?) this year. In contrast to this last years TI saw multiple different strats being used, even in the grand finals. And of corse that back and forth final game as the icing of the cake. I became a fan of Alliance after that tournament because of how they played. Before I was more leaning towards Navi. The Alliance style was never pure split push, that was the last resort when all else failed in a game. They won many games much earlier with little to no split pushing. Navi finals as TI1 when they were all about the face rush style (like this year) also showed that they could do more. When the chinese team at TI1 finals beat the Navi face rush style in the finals, Navi picked a late game strat and won (up until that point considered impossible for a western team against a chinese). This makes both these finals a lot better. More than 1 strat was valid and used. (TI2 I didn't see much of so can't say) Lastly, the format this year was a mess. It's good that there was no bo1 elimination matches (altho tie breakers?) but the rest was just a step back. I don't know why formats have to be reinvented every year in Esports. It's like you find something that almost works (TI3) and then you disregard it all and start completely over (TI4) instead of just fixing what didn't work (bo1 elim, too little benefit for finishing first in groups) from the TI3 format. I much more enjoyed watching two groups with bo2 matches than the chaos of this year, with the infinite number of ways the group stage could unfold (you had to be a math professor to keep it all straight=not specatator friendly). Anyways, that's my few cents on this tournament. Hopefully things will shape up again next year.
You are deluding yourself if you think last year had more strats compared to this year
|
On July 22 2014 07:12 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 06:38 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
This was the best TI thus far, overall. It was far more competitive than the past ones, which means more surprises and more interesting matches. The meta was wide open, more heroes were picked, some frequently picked heroes came out of no where (Skywrath), and none of the frequently picked heroes were dominant in their win rates. Even though they ultimately lost the finals, VG was probably the highest performing team, and who expected that? On the other hand, the worst team, Arrow, still gave us some awesome moments with DDZ's daunting Invoker play.
TI3 was basically a contest between Alliance and Na'Vi to see who was better at using Batrider, Wisp, and Visage. Orange is the only team that added any spice to that. People are people nostalgic about shit that never happened. It's saudade.
EDIT: I said best TI4 >_> snip
You could've saved this whole page a wall of text by saying "I liked the years when Western teams won DoTA better".
This year had hands down the best DOTA TI. The finals was a bit mismatched IMO & no DK but w/e that's not really Newbee's fault for being the better team.
|
|
|
Too much deathballing for my taste, every game sort of seemed the same.
|
On July 22 2014 07:04 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 06:52 Khylol wrote:On July 22 2014 06:35 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
all i have to say is that as a c9 fan, if c9 had won the finals in the same manner as newbee vs vg, my response would've been "nice, but that wasn't very anime" same if they had won against eg the way vici did.
anime demands interesting drafts and plot twists and tension, being a c9 fan is not about just c9 winning, its about c9 winning animestyle TunA you're the best tbh I would have just been screaming for them to 3-0 as fast as possible Also I desperately hope that the next major patch will add alot of the heroes to CM and give us back some 70+ minute games atleast from the chinese but we'll see v.v i wouldn't have minded a 3-0 stomp if it were 3 clever (hopefully different) outdrafts of vici's typical style, but 3 newbee-style outdrafts of vici deciding inexplicably that aa+veno+furion=thebest just wasn't very fun to watch, especially since i actually watched a lot of chinese dota in the past few months (where newbee vs vg games looked quite similar, maybe with vg even putting up more of a fight)
I meant if c9 played I would have been screaming for a 3-0 not for an "anime" close final
|
So many people are downplaying this tournament because of the finals and no fan favorites. Want a story line? Newbee being on the brink of not even making it to the main stage takes it all. VG a team that used to be the punching bag of the other 3 t1 chinese teams and had mediocre results for months go into the grand finals. LGD a team with few expectations comeback from a bad 1st day in the group stages to knocking out iG and doing an incredible comeback vs DK. Also this years groupstages blow all the other ti's groupstages out of the water, and we see so many upsets/strats and yet so many this is the worst TI ever comments.
|
On July 22 2014 07:30 PotatoFury wrote:
So many people are downplaying this tournament because of the finals and no fan favorites. Want a story line? Newbee being on the brink of not even making it to the main stage takes it all. VG a team that used to be the punching bag of the other 3 t1 chinese teams and had mediocre results for months go into the grand finals. LGD a team with few expectations comeback from a bad 1st day in the group stages to knocking out iG and doing an incredible comeback vs DK. Also this years groupstages blow all the other ti's groupstages out of the water, and we see so many upsets/strats and yet so many this is the worst TI ever comments.
I wouldn't say the worst TI ever. It had a great groupstage, but the main event was incredibly underwhelming for me. I felt like we didn't see enough teams on the main stage, and I feel like the team coming from the winner's bracket has too big of an advantage with two days to observe people claw their way up. Anyways, this year all of VG's wins in the lower bracket were with the same push-your-face-in in 15 minutes strat, and the games only got interesting when the push failed and they were forced to play late (I felt that the last good series in the tournament was VG-C9). The finals were a successful push and 3 games of VG slamming their heads into a NewBee wall that had figured them out. I feel like the lack of hype wasn't only because no fan favorites made the finals, but also because VG had only shown one type of game to get there and it's very easy to get bored of them.
|
Disappointing finals. Any other final this year was more exciting and on a higher level (starladder, dh, esl one...) . So many small mistakes which I didn't expect from the best 2 teams. Weird rotations, no map awareness, playing way to static vs ganks, losing couriers, chilling touch when attacking towers, stupid positioning ... . After the third game I even thought the two teams decided to split the price money and just scrimmed.
|
even thou a part of me died when I didn't see LGD in finals, I secretly wished xiao8 would claim the title. Discipline and perseverance dominated the tournament, evidenced by 4 Chinese teams comfortably sitting in the top6. I doff my capstone to you.
|
'esports' fans are fucking pathetic, only slightly less fickle and brain dead as MMA fans. I get that the finals were one-sided and everyone wants super epic games but that's the nature of competition, it's sporadic, crazy, unpredictable, boring, suspenseful and everything in between. The difference is when your team loses in the NFL or Premiere league you don't trash the fucking sport, you don't have football fans saying, super bowl sucks, FOOTBALL SUCKS, NFL DEAD or start demanding some sort of monetary compensation (yes, some redditors are mad about their $ contributing to the event that they feel, 'sucked').
Get a fucking grip you mongrols, sometimes competitions end one-sided, and your favorite team doesn't always win. Boo fucking Hoo. Go write about it on your tumblr and stop shitting up proper discussion about the event or games.
|
On July 22 2014 07:49 crms wrote:
'esports' fans are fucking pathetic, only slightly less fickle and brain dead as MMA fans. I get that the finals were one-sided and everyone wants super epic games but that's the nature of competition, it's sporadic, crazy, unpredictable, boring, suspenseful and everything in between. The difference is when your team loses in the NFL or Premiere league you don't trash the fucking sport, you don't have football fans saying, super bowl sucks, FOOTBALL SUCKS, NFL DEAD or start demanding some sort of monetary compensation (yes, some redditors are mad about their $ contributing to the event that they feel, 'sucked').
Get a fucking grip you mongrols, sometimes competitions end one-sided, and your favorite team doesn't always win. Boo fucking Hoo. Go write about it on your tumblr and stop shitting up proper discussion about the event or games.
Heck if we exclude G5 of last year all of the final games where stomps TI1-TI4.
|
On July 22 2014 07:38 loklok wrote:
Disappointing finals. Any other final this year was more exciting and on a higher level (starladder, dh, esl one...) . So many small mistakes which I didn't expect from the best 2 teams. Weird rotations, no map awareness, playing way to static vs ganks, losing couriers, chilling touch when attacking towers, stupid positioning ... . After the third game I even thought the two teams decided to split the price money and just scrimmed.
Na'Vi flair. Color me suprised hahahahahahhaha.
|
On July 22 2014 07:21 PotatoFury wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 07:12 Ohforfsake wrote:On July 22 2014 06:38 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
This was the best TI thus far, overall. It was far more competitive than the past ones, which means more surprises and more interesting matches. The meta was wide open, more heroes were picked, some frequently picked heroes came out of no where (Skywrath), and none of the frequently picked heroes were dominant in their win rates. Even though they ultimately lost the finals, VG was probably the highest performing team, and who expected that? On the other hand, the worst team, Arrow, still gave us some awesome moments with DDZ's daunting Invoker play.
TI3 was basically a contest between Alliance and Na'Vi to see who was better at using Batrider, Wisp, and Visage. Orange is the only team that added any spice to that. People are people nostalgic about shit that never happened. It's saudade.
EDIT: I said best TI4 >_> Strongly disagree. Using only 1 strat 3 times in a row in the grand finals loosing all 3 games was horrible. It also speaks volumes to me about how the top teams (because the top teams were in the finals, right?) view the current state of the game. Apparently that one strat was deemed so good that no other strat was valid to even atempt. Newbie just happened to be better at said strat (they also fielded early game fight). The fact that split push, anti push or greed was not even attempted in the finals tells me that the top teams doesn't view either of these as a valid strat at the moment. So, no, this was not the best TI ever, it was not the best Esports tournament ever. The only thing it was the best at was prize pool money. This was not Newbee or VGs fault however. They just did the best to win, and if one strat is that much stronger you field it over and over hoping to get the better execution (Newbee clearly was superior there). If VG had fielded anything else they would just had lost just as hard if not harder to the same early game fight oriented style of Newbee. The games might have been slightly longer but the outcome would have been just as assured. This is what was shown by the other games of the tournament where teams with great skill and teamwork beat their heads bloody (and got eliminated) against that strat. The better at drafting and executing the face rush early game strats would win this finals. This is what made the finals one sided and the tournament loose hype. And this is Icefrogs fault (or Valve if you want), noone elses. They absolutely hated the split push style of last year that created the best tournament ever and nerfed it to oblivion, and they got just what they wanted (deserver?) this year. In contrast to this last years TI saw multiple different strats being used, even in the grand finals. And of corse that back and forth final game as the icing of the cake. I became a fan of Alliance after that tournament because of how they played. Before I was more leaning towards Navi. The Alliance style was never pure split push, that was the last resort when all else failed in a game. They won many games much earlier with little to no split pushing. Navi finals as TI1 when they were all about the face rush style (like this year) also showed that they could do more. When the chinese team at TI1 finals beat the Navi face rush style in the finals, Navi picked a late game strat and won (up until that point considered impossible for a western team against a chinese). This makes both these finals a lot better. More than 1 strat was valid and used. (TI2 I didn't see much of so can't say) Lastly, the format this year was a mess. It's good that there was no bo1 elimination matches (altho tie breakers?) but the rest was just a step back. I don't know why formats have to be reinvented every year in Esports. It's like you find something that almost works (TI3) and then you disregard it all and start completely over (TI4) instead of just fixing what didn't work (bo1 elim, too little benefit for finishing first in groups) from the TI3 format. I much more enjoyed watching two groups with bo2 matches than the chaos of this year, with the infinite number of ways the group stage could unfold (you had to be a math professor to keep it all straight=not specatator friendly). Anyways, that's my few cents on this tournament. Hopefully things will shape up again next year. You are deluding yourself if you think last year had more strats compared to this year
And you watched a different torunament if you claim the final teams this year showed more strats than the final teams last year. If teams who loose show a lot of strats it isn't impressive except from the point of seeing how they lost with it. Newbie was a worthy winner tho. I really do believe they know a lot more than they showed in the finals, they just played what would win. Still, doesn't change that the same strat won both teams through the entire tournament (once newbie figured out this was what got VG such success in the group stage).
|
On July 22 2014 07:22 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 07:12 Ohforfsake wrote:On July 22 2014 06:38 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
This was the best TI thus far, overall. It was far more competitive than the past ones, which means more surprises and more interesting matches. The meta was wide open, more heroes were picked, some frequently picked heroes came out of no where (Skywrath), and none of the frequently picked heroes were dominant in their win rates. Even though they ultimately lost the finals, VG was probably the highest performing team, and who expected that? On the other hand, the worst team, Arrow, still gave us some awesome moments with DDZ's daunting Invoker play.
TI3 was basically a contest between Alliance and Na'Vi to see who was better at using Batrider, Wisp, and Visage. Orange is the only team that added any spice to that. People are people nostalgic about shit that never happened. It's saudade.
EDIT: I said best TI4 >_> snip You could've saved this whole page a wall of text by saying "I liked the years when Western teams won DoTA better". This year had hands down the best DOTA TI. The finals was a bit mismatched IMO & no DK but w/e that's not really Newbee's fault for being the better team.
And you could had saved yourself that post if you had nothing to say.
|
Just adding my 2c. Tournament was great, Newbee coming back from the brink of elimination is impressive, wish Vici had put up a bit more of a fight but I have no issue with their tactics/drafting. They went high risk, high reward and didn't execute. Newbee had really clean teamfights. I find that much more interesting than 70 minute naga farm games.
|
On July 22 2014 08:01 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 07:22 KissBlade wrote:On July 22 2014 07:12 Ohforfsake wrote:On July 22 2014 06:38 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
This was the best TI thus far, overall. It was far more competitive than the past ones, which means more surprises and more interesting matches. The meta was wide open, more heroes were picked, some frequently picked heroes came out of no where (Skywrath), and none of the frequently picked heroes were dominant in their win rates. Even though they ultimately lost the finals, VG was probably the highest performing team, and who expected that? On the other hand, the worst team, Arrow, still gave us some awesome moments with DDZ's daunting Invoker play.
TI3 was basically a contest between Alliance and Na'Vi to see who was better at using Batrider, Wisp, and Visage. Orange is the only team that added any spice to that. People are people nostalgic about shit that never happened. It's saudade.
EDIT: I said best TI4 >_> snip You could've saved this whole page a wall of text by saying "I liked the years when Western teams won DoTA better". This year had hands down the best DOTA TI. The finals was a bit mismatched IMO & no DK but w/e that's not really Newbee's fault for being the better team. And you could had saved yourself that post if you had nothing to say.
He had something to say. "You are wrong" is a robust statement.
|
VG onetrick pony'd themselves to a lost final.
They tried to same strat with different heroes all 4 games, even with weaver and NP they still tried the same man-up-@around-10-min-and-take-towers and it failed, Newbee had them read like a book in the draft by banning out DP and razor in phase 1 and pugna + x in phase 2 while simply outplaying them (disregarding game 1).
VG proved unable to differ from their go-to strategy when they were up against the ropes and the nerves of the final, that fy and fenrir never got the early game rotations going to their full potential didn't really help either.
That's my take on the match either way
|
|
|
On July 22 2014 08:04 Rho_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 08:01 Ohforfsake wrote:On July 22 2014 07:22 KissBlade wrote:On July 22 2014 07:12 Ohforfsake wrote:On July 22 2014 06:38 Evander Berry Wall wrote:
This was the best TI thus far, overall. It was far more competitive than the past ones, which means more surprises and more interesting matches. The meta was wide open, more heroes were picked, some frequently picked heroes came out of no where (Skywrath), and none of the frequently picked heroes were dominant in their win rates. Even though they ultimately lost the finals, VG was probably the highest performing team, and who expected that? On the other hand, the worst team, Arrow, still gave us some awesome moments with DDZ's daunting Invoker play.
TI3 was basically a contest between Alliance and Na'Vi to see who was better at using Batrider, Wisp, and Visage. Orange is the only team that added any spice to that. People are people nostalgic about shit that never happened. It's saudade.
EDIT: I said best TI4 >_> snip You could've saved this whole page a wall of text by saying "I liked the years when Western teams won DoTA better". This year had hands down the best DOTA TI. The finals was a bit mismatched IMO & no DK but w/e that's not really Newbee's fault for being the better team. And you could had saved yourself that post if you had nothing to say. He had something to say. "You are wrong" is a robust statement.
And pointless since it leads nowehere unless you actually brings up something I point out in the post and point out what's wrong with that statement. If you just say you're wrong I'll counter and say "Your wrong". Where does that leave us?
|
Crazy how the title of highest earning E-sports player, once held by icons of gaming like Fatal1ty, Jaedong and Dendi, is now held by.......Hao.
edit: Also, China as a whole made some serious bank from this tournament. TI4 alone paid out more prize money to Chinese players than all other tournaments in Chinese E-sports history.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
