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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:26 Itsmedudeman wrote: You mean with a juggernaut in the long lane? What's he gonna do exactly? He wasn't even playing the 1 role in that game. It's not like he was playing a solo Juggernaut. Na'Vi pretty much had to win that lane in order to win the game, and they committed a lot to it. He wasn't bad, IMO, but he didn't really do much good either. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:31 Canas wrote: No? Na'vi won the million last year, they placed second this year and won $250k. there were some rumors of IG giving their players another million if they took it all. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:29 kdgns wrote: Man, so the teams that gets the most money is the team that already got 1 million last year and the team owned by a billionaire. The rich just get richer. the bigger thing is that na/euro teams except navi didnt get any money. but theres probably going to be a lot more interest in dota2, compared to last year valve ran this tournament wonderfully | ||
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Narcind
Sweden2489 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:33 IshinShishi wrote: there were some rumors of IG giving their players another million if they took it all. Yeah but they didn't win the million last year, which is what that post implied | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:31 LuckoftheIrish wrote: It's not like he was playing a solo Juggernaut. Na'Vi pretty much had to win that lane in order to win the game, and they committed a lot to it. He wasn't bad, IMO, but he didn't really do much good either. It's almost impossible to get anything done with a jugg in an offensive trilane unless you severely outplay or outpick them. Neither happened. Nyx was experimental but puppey was way wrong on that one. Not sure which hero would have been best to replace him, probably a rubick but that was given to dendi. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:34 rabidch wrote: the bigger thing is that na/euro teams except navi didnt get any money. but theres probably going to be a lot more interest in dota2, compared to last year valve ran this tournament wonderfully Once dota2 is released I think we will see the emergence of a lot more western players and especially US players. It happened with sc2, and there's definitely a lot of talent out there, and along with a bunch of online tournys you can make a name for yourself. This is also why I think ladder is important. It shows exactly who is who, and even though it doesn't exactly show who is best in a competitive environment it lets you pick and choose between the best. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:34 Canas wrote: Yeah but they didn't win the million last year, which is what that post implied oh sorry, I just skim read his first words after I saw your response, 14 hours of dota and all that. Also, did you guys notice how few times dendi managed to steal chuan's ravage? It's a completely different story when a truly good player ( chuan is a better mid laner than ferrari) plays a support hero, IG's depth is just too huge, at the top level, there's no place for that crappy support player only in the team because he is a friend. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: It's almost impossible to get anything done with a jugg in an offensive trilane unless you severely outplay or outpick them. Neither happened. Nyx was experimental but puppey was way wrong on that one. Not sure which hero would have been best to replace him, probably a rubick but that was given to dendi. The Nyx was picked to stun Tide so that Dendi would have time to steal Ravage. iG outplayed Na'vi by targetting the piss out of Dendi before he got his escapes while also ensuring that Chuan basically never used ravage unless he for sure would hit Dendi, and they never opened with sleep until the very end. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Narcind
Sweden2489 Posts
If AA played rubick, they could give invoker to dendi or something (assuming they could pull a draft like that off), which would also allow them to draft differently, seeing how na'vi banned invoker pretty much every single game they played. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: It's almost impossible to get anything done with a jugg in an offensive trilane unless you severely outplay or outpick them. Neither happened. Nyx was experimental but puppey was way wrong on that one. Not sure which hero would have been best to replace him, probably a rubick but that was given to dendi. I don't disagree. The lineup Puppey drafted, and the strategy Na'Vi pursued in that game, though, put all the pressure on XBOCT to make some plays with his Jugg, and he didn't. Whether or not it's his fault isn't really relevant. Nothing went right in that lane. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: It's almost impossible to get anything done with a jugg in an offensive trilane unless you severely outplay or outpick them. Neither happened. Nyx was experimental but puppey was way wrong on that one. Not sure which hero would have been best to replace him, probably a rubick but that was given to dendi. He just made a lot of mistakes with the timing of his abilities. I mean, he was alone at bottom against Siren, without any help nearby. So, while close to their tower, he decides to use bladefury which makes any ability of running impossible. So, he ends up getting cc'd and killed. When they were in the radiants jungle, he used blade fury again which is his only means of escape and iG (rightly so) nearly killed him when siren went after him. The thing is, they were making mistakes and iG was on the ball, punishing them severely when ever they see it. It happens often, like when Fv has the aegis and it went off, so Fv went toward their tower and got himself killed. I love Na'Vi and was wishing they would win, but there were too many mistakes and they were punished for it. the jug choice wasn't even the main reason Na'Vi beat down the naga before. (as a side note, jug did not to horrific, although did not help much. I think what hurt them the most was nyx. Almost no presence throughout the match, having the lowest gold cumulative... it hindered them a lot). | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:40 Canas wrote: Well puppey has said that dendi plays rubick far more and far better than anyone else in the team, so they just give the rubick to him, and dendi simply doesn't play the 4 or 5 role, which means he's always going to be soloing, so I guess that could be considered a flaw in their play. If AA played rubick, they could give invoker to dendi or something (assuming they could pull a draft like that off), which would also allow them to draft differently, seeing how na'vi banned invoker pretty much every single game they played. Honestly in the last game the easiest way to do it might have been letting Dendi take the Nyx Assassin and putting Puppey back on the Rubick. That would have strengthened their trilane bottom and put NA in a position to get some fast levels and threaten squishier heroes like KotL. iG really hit in game 3 and 4 on the real weakness of Na'Vi - you don't counter-ban Dendi or XBOCT or Light, you counterban Puppey, because when he's forced to play a conventional laning role he's a much weaker player. This metagame limits his hero pool drastically; he's basically stuck with Tide and junglers. Once those are gone you have a weak link to pick on. | ||
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Ultrapwnage
126 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:40 Canas wrote: Well puppey has said that dendi plays rubick far more and far better than anyone else in the team, so they just give the rubick to him, and dendi simply doesn't play the 4 or 5 role, which means he's always going to be soloing, so I guess that could be considered a flaw in their play. If AA played rubick, they could give invoker to dendi or something (assuming they could pull a draft like that off), which would also allow them to draft differently, seeing how na'vi banned invoker pretty much every single game they played. well, it would have been insane to give 430 invoker I guess. I am quite happy with how things turned out, because I think navi won against ig and lgd with superior drafting of puppey, and it came back to haunt them in the grand finals, when puppey tried to outdraft them with the nyx pick but failed miserably. Still, dendi proved once again that he is probably the best european pro player in the current scene. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Honestly in the last game the easiest way to do it might have been letting Dendi take the Nyx Assassin and putting Puppey back on the Rubick. That would have strengthened their trilane bottom and put NA in a position to get some fast levels and threaten squishier heroes like KotL. iG really hit in game 3 and 4 on the real weakness of Na'Vi - you don't counter-ban Dendi or XBOCT or Light, you counterban Puppey, because when he's forced to play a conventional laning role he's a much weaker player. This metagame limits his hero pool drastically; he's basically stuck with Tide and junglers. Once those are gone you have a weak link to pick on. What? In the last game they had everyone on completely unconventional heroes basically. Puppey/XBOCT being on their non traditional heroes (Jugg was the pusher not in the 1 position) fucked their team so bad it was hilarious. Without XBOCT being the 1 / hard carry on his team, he is so much weaker it is hilarious. Puppey also is much weaker outside the jungle too as you stated. LOH was on 1 and did his job, but even that is not his traditional role on this particular team. Only Dendi was the one on a role he was familiar with, and he was getting crapped on by ganks from iG who were head hunting him in order to keep him down. | ||
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
 Hope its going to be up on youtube.I agree with luckoftheirish though. Its far better to respect ban Puppey/XBOCT than the other three. Maybe Dendi if you're really scared. You can't consistently respect ban LOH/AA/Dendi without giving something up since they're good at a lot | ||
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rbkl
772 Posts
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote: Honestly in the last game the easiest way to do it might have been letting Dendi take the Nyx Assassin and putting Puppey back on the Rubick. That would have strengthened their trilane bottom and put NA in a position to get some fast levels and threaten squishier heroes like KotL. iG really hit in game 3 and 4 on the real weakness of Na'Vi - you don't counter-ban Dendi or XBOCT or Light, you counterban Puppey, because when he's forced to play a conventional laning role he's a much weaker player. This metagame limits his hero pool drastically; he's basically stuck with Tide and junglers. Once those are gone you have a weak link to pick on. Pretty good analysis, they took out lycan, chen and enchant, and then I was left wondering wth would puppey do, that nyx did nothing, but I didn't talk much about it because jugger had a much more important role and xboct isn't that good even when playing the heroes he is supposed to be good at. Forgot to add, I think they should've never gone for nyx and puppey should've played any hero that was left that he is good at, such as an earthshaker. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:49 Flamingo777 wrote: The only tragedy here was that the winners bracket team (na`vi) had no advantage going into Grand Finals. They'd still be going if it was a traditional double elimination format of two bo5s, an extended series is very anti-climatic, and if it was only a +1 advantage IG wins regardless. | ||
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