The unsung hero of this game was definately Admiral Bulldog who had like 10 creepkills after 10 min or smth then shows up with a fucking radiance from nowhere at the 20 min ish mark. What the hell, plus Loda ended the game with ~280 lasthits at 28 mins...

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

February 19 2013 23:18 GMT

#606

nvm just restream.

TanGeng

Sanya12364 Posts

February 19 2013 23:51 GMT

#607

rat in dark? Who are they? How did they beat mousesports and Lion's Pride? Did anyone watch their games? Is it possible to have watched their games?

Cups like are boring without the darkhorse upsets and new team showcase. For the big clubs, it's a low stakes points circuit.

renfree

4485 Posts

February 20 2013 01:18 GMT

#608

Despite QoP kills and play, the true hero of game 3 is definitely Bulldog. His quick Radiance and bear control made huge difference.

EE as usual being awful. Playing Nyx against wombo combo lineup, not putting single point in Carapace, missing stuns and so on.
Also Nth should stop picking heroes like NS, who needs support help to snowball in the first night. Stacking EE lv1 can't assist shit.

Conclusion: i wonder how much time Nth with their stacking style and useless underlvled supports would have, to lose against Asian teams, assuming they would get invited to TI3. I think game 2 has clearly shown, that the times of hyper carries and 4-1 is gone, and none can 1v5 whole team, if the rest of your team are just poor underfarmed meat bags.

teapoted

United Kingdom24425 Posts

February 20 2013 01:31 GMT

#609

I don't think the time of 4+1 is gone, but Nth also don't play 4+1.

Nth play mass pooling, in items, in stacks, in under-leveled supports. This is different from having 4 heroes occupy the enemy and giving your carry time to farm. 4+1 is designed to be difficult to stop, even if you know what they're doing. While Nth's styles are very easily punished.

But that said they are diversifying, but we can't really count this tournament win as all that relevant. They beat Empire, the other 3 teams were far below their level.

renfree

4485 Posts

February 20 2013 01:51 GMT

#610

I agree, wasn't the correct definition of their style. It just sickening me to see that constant pulling stacking stacking pulling. In the game 2 Empire supports also stacked, but the difference was, that it was them, who farmed the stacks, while Loda took ALL farm on the dire side, resulting in EE with basic boots 40 mins into the game, NS not being able to farm BKB, Magnus with late Mek, Gyro with only Force, when they were leading more than half of the time. That SD was 2-shot even for QoP, not talking about Alchemist.

Kupon3ss

時の回廊10066 Posts

February 20 2013 02:49 GMT

#611

The issue about EE and a lot of western team's stacking is that its often done as an ends, and not a means. This has a lot to with the fact that many teams don't have a coherent gameplan aside from what pajkatt termed as "play some dota". If there's no obvious ways to gank and nothing to do the supports will just sit cluelessly in the jungle and stack for some reason, wheras teams with better movement and sense of rhythm will stack and farm then WHILE AND IN BETWEEN GOING PLACES AND DOING THINGS.

renfree

4485 Posts

February 20 2013 03:46 GMT

#612

Also i feel, that the new support players (like bdiz or EE) are doing it wrong, going all-in into supportive role. I would much prefer my supports to have Blink, Force or Ghost rather than my Luna finishing her Daedalus (with the exception of BKB). If you're being 2-shot by basically anyone on enemy's team, you effectively contributed zero to the teamfight. If your Luna just finished Butterfly, but her supports are dying too fast due to having no items, her 35% evasion doesn't matter - she will die 35% slower, but still die.

Kuroeeah

11696 Posts

February 20 2013 18:12 GMT

#613

On February 20 2013 12:46 renfree wrote:
Also i feel, that the new support players (like bdiz or EE) are doing it wrong, going all-in into supportive role. I would much prefer my supports to have Blink, Force or Ghost rather than my Luna finishing her Daedalus (with the exception of BKB). If you're being 2-shot by basically anyone on enemy's team, you effectively contributed zero to the teamfight. If your Luna just finished Butterfly, but her supports are dying too fast due to having no items, her 35% evasion doesn't matter - she will die 35% slower, but still die.

Bdiz isn't new to the support role and his wards are praised for having saved his team on multiple occasions and you don't seem to understand the role of supports verses the role of the carry (the 1-5 system) if you're proposing that a support should take income from a carry.

Supports benefit from items but for the most part are more dependent on levels than their items which means they can go out of their way to support their team with map coverage verses a Luna/pl/gyro/whatever item dependent carry who NEEDS farm to properly fulfill their role as a 1.

Chuan is arguably the best at his job at supporting his role and always provides coverage, map vision when IG needs them and never goes out of his way to get the items you mentioned (he hardly goes blink/force if at all on his 5 Rubick). luna with a full item stack 100% guarantee's her presence/danger as opposed to a lina or rubick that either farmed up their ghost or an item that gives survivability only to cast a couple of extra spells or finish off their spell combo. i'm not SAYING that the 5 should never have items but im saying that bdiz and EE are playing what best fits to the convention of competitive dota verse your opinion in re-prioritizing gold distribution.

duoform

Spain5180 Posts

February 20 2013 18:15 GMT

#614

GG EMS DotA