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On April 25 2013 07:46 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 07:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 25 2013 06:15 teapoted wrote:On April 25 2013 06:08 ragz_gt wrote:On April 25 2013 05:30 Azarkon wrote:On April 25 2013 04:09 Shaella wrote:On April 25 2013 04:06 TheYango wrote:On April 25 2013 02:49 teapoted wrote:On April 25 2013 02:43 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 25 2013 02:40 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
Why not? Other games have regionally isolated competition (except in the case of major LANs), and NA/EU competition is already split from Chinese/SEA competitions.
You could argue that earlier in DotA 2's life, the scene was not large or stable enough for you to have region-only tournaments with good enough competition, but I don't see that as the case anymore. NA-only and EU-only tournaments would have enough participants to be stable. NA-only tournaments would get stale fast unless some as-yet unformed teams became decent in a hurry. NA currently seriously lacks "tier 2" teams (assuming you assign Dig/TL/EG "tier 1" status for NA). Fnatic.NA is essentially the only candidate  They lack tier 2 teams because they don't have tournaments. If someone made a 5-10k NA only league (however much is necessary for EG/TL/Dig to play) you'd by the second season (if you're lucky by the first) have enough teams to make the NA scene interesting. But no organizer wants to do that because they could just get the EU teams to play with that prize pool as well. Exactly. The reason no second-tier NA teams pop up is because there's no real incentive or progression. Either you're instantly good enough to compete in cross-Atlantic tournaments, or you're nobody. There's an enormous barrier of entry there. I agree, the barrier to entry is massive, and the hours are completely brutal for NA dota teams But if the EU scene just cut off the NA scene, NA wouldn't suddenly sprout up and grow, it'd most likely die off very quickly. Its not that I don't think the NA scene can't grow, but unless NASL or MLG pick DotA2 up, i don't see where the growth will come from. NA's eSports infrastructure has ever been the worst in the developed world when it comes to developing our own scene and players. Short of a LCS run by Valve, I don't see the NA scene ever developing that infrastructure. The problem is that high cost of living + lacking of social safety net = the risk of going progaming is much higher compared to Asian or EU. Until people can make a secure living without basically mooching off parents, it will be behind. Lol, high cost of living in NA compared to western Europe? You been to Sweden? Just making up excuses. EU's greatest strength isn't in Na'Vi/Fnatic/Whatever. It's that the tournaments existed for more teams to come up. And did those teams have a secure living? absolutely not, they just had time zones that worked for them to play in and tournaments to motivate them. NA scene just needs tournaments. That's all. It's not magic, it needs someone to take a risk. It was a risk to do tournaments in EU for Dota in the start as well. And if someone did an NA tournament right now, would it be bigger than TD3? No, but it would be bigger than TD1. It also makes a difference that NA is about 3x as large as the entirety of Europe. That adds a lot of overhead to teams and tournaments. Flights from London to Kiev cost more than flights from New York to Los Angeles. What's this other overhead caused by distance? You're dealing in 2 countries rather than 15, there can only be benefits. And either way I'm talking about online tournaments, as that scene needs to exist before LANs.
Erm, you probably just don't realize how shit america's internet infrastructure is. If I remember right, some of the early MLGs couldn't even buy a sufficient bandwidth line to stream in one of our larger cities.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
And you think internet infrastructure in every country in Europe including CIS is amazing?
There are American scenes in other games, this is not a major problem, and US teams are already playing in EU tournaments which if it was so bad would be even more unimaginable. People are just making up silly excuses now as if eSports in America doesn't exist and cannot be done.
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On April 25 2013 08:39 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +Regardless of ping it is hard to see an incentive for outside organisations to take an interest in the NA teams while they can simply run EU tournaments(with both NA and EU teams) and have the viewership of both(a lot of NA watches EU dota from what I recall). Which is why it kind of needs to be up to the teams to get something started that can grow. Not ideal, but if you're a third party unless you're incredibly nationalistic then it's simply not a good business decision to be the first.
well EMS was initially europe only until EG threw a fit and got NA qualifiers
And then EG failed to qualify, and liquid got thrown some frankly embarrassing losses along with the other NA teams
god that was painful
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
If anything EMS might be savior as we don't know their plans with NA qualifiers. IF they do a pure NA portion that would be a good thing, although I doubt they will run on American time-zones which is the biggest problem with growing the scene for amateurs.
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On April 25 2013 08:44 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 07:46 teapoted wrote:On April 25 2013 07:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 25 2013 06:15 teapoted wrote:On April 25 2013 06:08 ragz_gt wrote:On April 25 2013 05:30 Azarkon wrote:On April 25 2013 04:09 Shaella wrote:On April 25 2013 04:06 TheYango wrote:On April 25 2013 02:49 teapoted wrote:On April 25 2013 02:43 Sn0_Man wrote:[quote] NA-only tournaments would get stale fast unless some as-yet unformed teams became decent in a hurry. NA currently seriously lacks "tier 2" teams (assuming you assign Dig/TL/EG "tier 1" status for NA). Fnatic.NA is essentially the only candidate They lack tier 2 teams because they don't have tournaments. If someone made a 5-10k NA only league (however much is necessary for EG/TL/Dig to play) you'd by the second season (if you're lucky by the first) have enough teams to make the NA scene interesting. But no organizer wants to do that because they could just get the EU teams to play with that prize pool as well. Exactly. The reason no second-tier NA teams pop up is because there's no real incentive or progression. Either you're instantly good enough to compete in cross-Atlantic tournaments, or you're nobody. There's an enormous barrier of entry there. I agree, the barrier to entry is massive, and the hours are completely brutal for NA dota teams But if the EU scene just cut off the NA scene, NA wouldn't suddenly sprout up and grow, it'd most likely die off very quickly. Its not that I don't think the NA scene can't grow, but unless NASL or MLG pick DotA2 up, i don't see where the growth will come from. NA's eSports infrastructure has ever been the worst in the developed world when it comes to developing our own scene and players. Short of a LCS run by Valve, I don't see the NA scene ever developing that infrastructure. The problem is that high cost of living + lacking of social safety net = the risk of going progaming is much higher compared to Asian or EU. Until people can make a secure living without basically mooching off parents, it will be behind. Lol, high cost of living in NA compared to western Europe? You been to Sweden? Just making up excuses. EU's greatest strength isn't in Na'Vi/Fnatic/Whatever. It's that the tournaments existed for more teams to come up. And did those teams have a secure living? absolutely not, they just had time zones that worked for them to play in and tournaments to motivate them. NA scene just needs tournaments. That's all. It's not magic, it needs someone to take a risk. It was a risk to do tournaments in EU for Dota in the start as well. And if someone did an NA tournament right now, would it be bigger than TD3? No, but it would be bigger than TD1. It also makes a difference that NA is about 3x as large as the entirety of Europe. That adds a lot of overhead to teams and tournaments. Flights from London to Kiev cost more than flights from New York to Los Angeles. What's this other overhead caused by distance? You're dealing in 2 countries rather than 15, there can only be benefits. And either way I'm talking about online tournaments, as that scene needs to exist before LANs. Erm, you probably just don't realize how shit america's internet infrastructure is. If I remember right, some of the early MLGs couldn't even buy a sufficient bandwidth line to stream in one of our larger cities.
That's true for some cities/venues, but internet in a lot of major cities, like LA or New York, is excellent. The big issue with US internet is really more about rural areas having absolute shit internet without any alternatives due to what are basically local monopolies. Satalite trucks can also solve this problem for an organization hosting a LAN, as MLG showed after the disaster that was MLG Dallas 2011.
The shit internet in rural areas is a problem for some aspiring players, sure, but it's not so severe that it'll kill a LAN scene from developing in the US.
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On April 24 2013 23:28 Nevuk wrote:
Anyone know the status on fnatic / kaipi games?
+ Show Spoiler +
Fnatic 2 - 1 Kaipi from what I managed to find on the internets.
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On April 25 2013 06:15 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 06:08 ragz_gt wrote:On April 25 2013 05:30 Azarkon wrote:On April 25 2013 04:09 Shaella wrote:On April 25 2013 04:06 TheYango wrote:On April 25 2013 02:49 teapoted wrote:On April 25 2013 02:43 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 25 2013 02:40 TheYango wrote:On April 25 2013 02:25 Shaella wrote:
You can't split the scenes, you can't establish a random server in the middle of the ocean, Why not? Other games have regionally isolated competition (except in the case of major LANs), and NA/EU competition is already split from Chinese/SEA competitions. You could argue that earlier in DotA 2's life, the scene was not large or stable enough for you to have region-only tournaments with good enough competition, but I don't see that as the case anymore. NA-only and EU-only tournaments would have enough participants to be stable. NA-only tournaments would get stale fast unless some as-yet unformed teams became decent in a hurry. NA currently seriously lacks "tier 2" teams (assuming you assign Dig/TL/EG "tier 1" status for NA). Fnatic.NA is essentially the only candidate They lack tier 2 teams because they don't have tournaments. If someone made a 5-10k NA only league (however much is necessary for EG/TL/Dig to play) you'd by the second season (if you're lucky by the first) have enough teams to make the NA scene interesting. But no organizer wants to do that because they could just get the EU teams to play with that prize pool as well. Exactly. The reason no second-tier NA teams pop up is because there's no real incentive or progression. Either you're instantly good enough to compete in cross-Atlantic tournaments, or you're nobody. There's an enormous barrier of entry there. I agree, the barrier to entry is massive, and the hours are completely brutal for NA dota teams But if the EU scene just cut off the NA scene, NA wouldn't suddenly sprout up and grow, it'd most likely die off very quickly. Its not that I don't think the NA scene can't grow, but unless NASL or MLG pick DotA2 up, i don't see where the growth will come from. NA's eSports infrastructure has ever been the worst in the developed world when it comes to developing our own scene and players. Short of a LCS run by Valve, I don't see the NA scene ever developing that infrastructure. The problem is that high cost of living + lacking of social safety net = the risk of going progaming is much higher compared to Asian or EU. Until people can make a secure living without basically mooching off parents, it will be behind. Lol, high cost of living in NA compared to western Europe? You been to Sweden? Just making up excuses. EU's greatest strength isn't in Na'Vi/Fnatic/Whatever. It's that the tournaments existed for more teams to come up. And did those teams have a secure living? absolutely not, they just had time zones that worked for them to play in and tournaments to motivate them. NA scene just needs tournaments. That's all. It's not magic, it needs someone to take a risk. It was a risk to do tournaments in EU for Dota in the start as well. And if someone did an NA tournament right now, would it be bigger than TD3? No, but it would be bigger than TD1.
Did you read my post? Especially the social safety net part? I lived in Turku for a year and Rostok for another half. In US, if you try pro-gaming for 2-3 years and don't work out, maybe even drop out college, you are pretty fucked for decades. In European you can actually can go back to school and catch up reasonably well.
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I hope they will still add the replays from fnatic vs kp to the ingame client's tournament page later.
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It begins! KP vs Fnatic.EU :D
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LD stealing Tinker's ancient
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That Bear deny, I've never seen that either.
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how do you yolo with an aegis wouldnt that be yolt?, hehhhehee
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Wtf dude. at least label your spoilers.
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Kaipi Ursa so good! Kinda sloppy sometimes
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Thanks for the spoilers, guys.... Seriously, what the fuck? Why would you just spoil the result of a game that wasn't played yet in a LR thread?!?
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28095 Posts
Get pumped for G3 ladies.
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it says liquid vs kp on the calendar and since liquid is in loser bracket lol ...
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Hm, so i wake up to watch deciding game and Gosugamers already spoiled the results. Nice professionalism >.<
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8km6XCh.jpg)
