|
On April 24 2013 09:12 teapoted wrote:
I agree, I think Na'Vi/Alliance/VP/Fnatic will be getting EU invites, NA will get 2. (unlike the rest of you I think Dignitas is more likely than the other 2 because of Liquid being newer and not having been to LANs and EG going inactive/irrelevant for a long time)
Fnatic doesn't deserve an invite
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
I'm not saying they do, I'm saying they will get one.
|
On April 24 2013 09:27 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 09:12 teapoted wrote:
I agree, I think Na'Vi/Alliance/VP/Fnatic will be getting EU invites, NA will get 2. (unlike the rest of you I think Dignitas is more likely than the other 2 because of Liquid being newer and not having been to LANs and EG going inactive/irrelevant for a long time) Fnatic doesn't deserve an invite
Oh come on. I'm a fnatic hater and I think they'll get an invite. In addition, the HoN scene is on its last legs, so giving the people from HoN TI3 like many starcraft people had TI2 (convinced us to follow the scene) is probably a good idea.
EG and Liquid fanbases are huge, I'd be surprised if they don't get in (assuming EG actually goes sorta far this G-1).
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Fanbase is quite irrelevant, Mouz/mTw didn't get an invite last year and they were more popular than most western teams.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
in the western scene i'd like to see more seeds from a qualifier tournament, as opposed to having 7 out of 8 western teams from invites.
a qualifier tournament can build up hype for the main tournament and get more exposure for more teams and the event as whole. there's also no visa time issue with western teams.
|
On April 24 2013 10:59 oneofthem wrote:
in the western scene i'd like to see more seeds from a qualifier tournament, as opposed to having 7 out of 8 western teams from invites.
a qualifier tournament can build up hype for the main tournament and get more exposure for more teams and the event as whole. there's also no visa time issue with western teams.
What if Western/Eastern have 6 invite (-1 last champion aka iG) + 2 qualified teams?
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 24 2013 11:06 pedrlz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 10:59 oneofthem wrote:
in the western scene i'd like to see more seeds from a qualifier tournament, as opposed to having 7 out of 8 western teams from invites.
a qualifier tournament can build up hype for the main tournament and get more exposure for more teams and the event as whole. there's also no visa time issue with western teams. What if Western/Eastern have 6 invite (-1 last champion aka iG) + 2 qualified teams?
2 qualified teams sounds pretty good. they could do a league table system like in lol though, that'd be very nice build-up and gets people focused on the big tournament months in advance.
either that or a weighted points system for tourney results throughout the year, but there should be a tracking system for people to see the progress and build drama.
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
The International needs no buildup or drama. I'm fine with the majority being invited but sure, maybe 1 extra qualifier would be fine, but I think that should be in the case that there aren't clear invites, not because they just want to arbitrarily add a qualifier.
Because people may think qualifiers are fair, but are they really? One tournament result means you get to TI, several invites would have done more than do well in 1 tournament to get an invite. Especially considering the qualifiers are most likely online.
And point systems are bad because you'll never cover everyone equally in terms of regions or be fair to all the organizers, TI should stay out of the other tournaments.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the international is advertisement for dota 2. you'd want it front and center for as long as possible given the shiny prize money and prestige involved.
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
And making people compete for points is a step towards dependence on the International, which is the opposite of what Valve wants. But either way I think the logistics of it is a bigger problem than that, it quite simply cannot be done in a fair way in a global game, to the teams and to organizers.
The system works just fine with Icefrog just picking whoever. It's supposed to be independent from the rest of the scene.
|
On April 24 2013 09:27 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 09:12 teapoted wrote:
I agree, I think Na'Vi/Alliance/VP/Fnatic will be getting EU invites, NA will get 2. (unlike the rest of you I think Dignitas is more likely than the other 2 because of Liquid being newer and not having been to LANs and EG going inactive/irrelevant for a long time) Fnatic doesn't deserve an invite
second in the defense, second in starladder season 5, won the thor open, third in dream hack winter, they've had more high tourney finishes than most other teams
|
On April 24 2013 12:04 teapoted wrote:
The International needs no buildup or drama. I'm fine with the majority being invited but sure, maybe 1 extra qualifier would be fine, but I think that should be in the case that there aren't clear invites, not because they just want to arbitrarily add a qualifier.
Because people may think qualifiers are fair, but are they really? One tournament result means you get to TI, several invites would have done more than do well in 1 tournament to get an invite. Especially considering the qualifiers are most likely online.
And point systems are bad because you'll never cover everyone equally in terms of regions or be fair to all the organizers, TI should stay out of the other tournaments.
Well, thats why 2 qualified teams would be better, I think. If you aren't invited is because you didn't do specially well during the year, but still has the last chance by qualifiers.
And is easier, sometimes, for Valve to don't have to choose between midteams.
Also, I think Valve like more the invite system to build stories, drama or strong team names.
|
If Dignitas doesn't get an invite from the NA scene, I would be disappointed. They deserve it a lot more than EG. Actually, I think it's a joke to even consider EG a lock after all these months of disgusting performance and lack of commitment from their players.
Even Liquid as a new squad has been a lot more relevant in the western scene than EG. Sure, they don't have LAN results, but that's not exactly their fault. They are playing at a high level in every major online tournament and having very good results on most of them. This shouldn't be considered a small accomplishment.
A few days back, people were talking about roster changes on EG. Now they are freaking elite in the west? Ok.
|
I kind of want Valve to expand TI3 a bit this year. Invite more teams.
There a lot of deserving teams this year. Half of them are from China, other half from EU, and the big 3 from NA.
China: iG, LGD.cn, LGD.int, DK, VG (because of ZSMJ)
S.E.A: Orange, Zenith
EU: Na'Vi, Alliance, Fnatic.EU, mousesports, VP, Empire (depends heavily on their line-up)
NA: TL, Dignitas, EG
That isn't including up and coming Kaipi and MuFC. As Zhao said, MuFC lacks star power, that player that everyone points to when you mention their team. Kaipi has been showing great stuff recently despite my lack of love for EE. Rattlesnakes are getting a lot of attention, as well as TongFu now that KingJ joined their line-up.
I feel like Valve will probably invite Na'Vi next, if not LGD.cn and DK. LGD.int will go for sure, Alliance is a shoe in also. It's the NA scene... If TI3 sticks with how they did it in TI2, one of the top teams will get left out for sure. If they add in more teams, yes it be longer, but it'll be better for the competition so no one can say, "Hey they left out this team." So on and so forth.
|
On April 24 2013 13:40 fascistfromhell wrote:
If Dignitas doesn't get an invite from the NA scene, I would be disappointed. They deserve it a lot more than EG. Actually, I think it's a joke to even consider EG a lock after all these months of disgusting performance and lack of commitment from their players.
Even Liquid as a new squad has been a lot more relevant in the western scene than EG. Sure, they don't have LAN results, but that's not exactly their fault. They are playing at a high level in every major online tournament and having very good results on most of them. This shouldn't be considered a small accomplishment.
A few days back, people were talking about roster changes on EG. Now they are freaking elite in the west? Ok.
it's because TL is inconsistent. Dignitas should get an invite for sure, out of EG, TL and themselves, they have been the most stable in regards to their performance. EG and TL are both very inconsistent. EG can beat NA teams and vice versa but they have shown to not be able to do much of anything against EU and Chinese teams. TL is in the same boat, aside from days they show up and blow people up.
Dignitas is the only team out of the 3 I feel like that can preform when you say they will. Mainly Universe and Aui. Sneyking is crazy aggressive, so much so he throws games sometimes.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 24 2013 12:09 teapoted wrote:
And making people compete for points is a step towards dependence on the International, which is the opposite of what Valve wants. But either way I think the logistics of it is a bigger problem than that, it quite simply cannot be done in a fair way in a global game, to the teams and to organizers.
The system works just fine with Icefrog just picking whoever. It's supposed to be independent from the rest of the scene.
it doesn't have to be a valve run league. instead, each (western) tourney would get a point weight. would make things more organized than the random tourney of the week format we have currently.
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 24 2013 14:45 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 12:09 teapoted wrote:
And making people compete for points is a step towards dependence on the International, which is the opposite of what Valve wants. But either way I think the logistics of it is a bigger problem than that, it quite simply cannot be done in a fair way in a global game, to the teams and to organizers.
The system works just fine with Icefrog just picking whoever. It's supposed to be independent from the rest of the scene. it doesn't have to be a valve run league. instead, each (western) tourney would get a point weight. would make things more organized than the random tourney of the week format we have currently.
It still increases Valve dependence and is fundamentally unfair because tournaments that Valve arbitrarily choose to endorse have more value to teams than tournaments that don't. Every other tournament would be seen as "second-class".
This is actually exactly what happened in League of Legends when Riot decided to use a point system in Season 2 to determine qualification for World Championships. Events that didn't grant circuit points were seen as second-class events, and generally had an unfairly difficult time garnering viewership and participation from major teams, even if the event was well run--simply because major teams didn't feel it was worthwhile competing in non-circuit tournaments.
At the very least, if the idea of point qualification is going to be considered, it has to be done on major LAN tournaments. Online tournaments are simply too indistinguishable for you to be able to play favorites with certain TOs and make their tournament worth more than others. If you're going to make tournaments count toward TI, they have to be LANs--and for that there actually have to be enough major LANs in the West to have a reasonable number of points given out in the first place.
|
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Why don't we take this discussion to the GD thread or wherever else and talk about G-1 League west qualifiers here?
Alliance vs Mouz should be good! Many people would say Alliance are the better team, but Mouz beat them at EMS the last time they met on LAN, in what was the most important match for both teams in weeks. This one seems equally important, I really don't know who's the favorite here.
|
On April 24 2013 14:06 Seraphic wrote:
I kind of want Valve to expand TI3 a bit this year. Invite more teams.
There a lot of deserving teams this year. Half of them are from China, other half from EU, and the big 3 from NA.
China: iG, LGD.cn, LGD.int, DK, VG (because of ZSMJ)
S.E.A: Orange, Zenith
EU: Na'Vi, Alliance, Fnatic.EU, mousesports, VP, Empire (depends heavily on their line-up)
NA: TL, Dignitas, EG
That isn't including up and coming Kaipi and MuFC. As Zhao said, MuFC lacks star power, that player that everyone points to when you mention their team. Kaipi has been showing great stuff recently despite my lack of love for EE. Rattlesnakes are getting a lot of attention, as well as TongFu now that KingJ joined their line-up.
I feel like Valve will probably invite Na'Vi next, if not LGD.cn and DK. LGD.int will go for sure, Alliance is a shoe in also. It's the NA scene... If TI3 sticks with how they did it in TI2, one of the top teams will get left out for sure. If they add in more teams, yes it be longer, but it'll be better for the competition so no one can say, "Hey they left out this team." So on and so forth.
I agree with almost all teams, although VG does not deserve an invite just because they got a starplayer in the carryrole. As for empire, in their current state they should not be ahead of VP, RoX.Kis and aL. But I would like to see them going!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
