Still fascinates me on how different games, same website, the perspective is completely the opposite regarding culture clashes (for instance, watch SC2 reactions on these kind of drama).
Fascinating.
haha, these comments are awesome.
'hi，dendi，fuck the every women of your family，your sister and your mother make love with me together。now you‘d better get out of China，you die。'
'fuck your mother everyday .in the morning on the tree'
On July 10 2013 02:00 Stwy wrote: Most of you guys just don't understand. Chinese/ Asian culture is different from the west. Pride, public image and face matters A LOT. Basically what dendi said, even if it was a joke, was almost equivalent to throwing a pile of dog shit in xiao8's face in front of 200k+ viewers. It's not fucking funny. They might have lost a lot of fans and friends with that 1 sentence.
I won't be surprised if no Chinese team wants to scrim with them at all anymore. Yesterday's BM was acceptable, but what he did just now was outrageous.
One thing about that - they need to get back to the West fast before they lose their advantage and give up everything they know. I already feel the Chinese getting a hang of Na'Vi's playstyle.
Same old story, same old bullshit. Chinese teams lose a few tournaments before TI2, everyone saying they suck why are they being invited to TI2, etc. etc.
Same old story again at TI3. Chinese/Asian teams will likely dominate the entire top 8 again, and the only difference is that you have two Western teams that can compete now rather than just one.
Same story except two tournaments IN CHINA, one of which was a LAN, lost to 1-2 Western teams vs. 7-8 Asian teams.
Yup, we've all seen that before. Oh wait.
Yeah, and Na'vi #threwgamesonpurposeingroupstage
Wait until TI3; the Chinese teams looked terrible prior to TI2 (watch some of the tournament footage), and then proceed to stomp literally everyone but Na'vi come TI2.
Even with a win in TI 3, the Chinese scene is at best able to bring itself back to equivalence. Losing a tournament on your home soil against 1-2 teams from other countries is simply very bad - it's what Koreans do to Westerners in SC 2, and we know there's a lopsided advantage there.
Equivalence? Winning TI3 would automatically put any Chinese team at the top, period. It's like how winning GSL in SC2 puts you at the top.
Best team, sure. Best scene, no. I place greater importance on uphill tournaments ie 1 Western team vs. 9-10 Asian teams when it comes to rating scenes, and you ought to too provided you believe that fluke wins aren't what matters.
You put importance on what supports your theory, got it.
If the best team in the world is western. And the next 6 are Chinese. The western scene is not the best.
And Alliance and Na'Vi winning these tournaments only proves their strength. I don't have any more faith in Mouz or TL to come far in these tournaments than I did a month ago.
On July 10 2013 02:52 Azarkon wrote: Even with a win in TI 3, the Chinese scene is at best able to bring itself back to equivalence. Losing a tournament on your home soil against 1-2 teams from other countries is simply very bad - it's what Koreans do to Westerners in SC 2, and we know there's a lopsided advantage there.
You're exaggerating as usual. Westerners don't lose to 1-2 special Korean teams only, it's numbers that matter. 6 Asian teams, 2 Western teams in top8 at TI3 would mean Asian scene is still superior. The scenes will be equalized in cases when a) it's all Western finals; b) two western teams top4, one top6; c) one western team top2, another top4, and two top8.
Nothing ever works out that neatly in tournaments. There are upsets, there are personal / health issues, there are team conflicts, and so on that prevent one tournament from being the end all be all.
Say S4 gets the flu a day before TI 3. Is the West now behind because Alliance has to play with a sick player?
This is why we average across tournaments - to mitigate against the things that don't allow the best team to win. It's why every tournament counts and not just TI.
Still fascinates me on how different games, same website, the perspective is completely the opposite regarding culture clashes (for instance, watch SC2 reactions on these kind of drama).
Fascinating.
A bit of trash talk, so what. Everyone knows how ROTK or Zhou can scream on lan. Trash talk is part of the game and if it is not to far, it just adds entertainment value.
On July 10 2013 02:00 Stwy wrote: Most of you guys just don't understand. Chinese/ Asian culture is different from the west. Pride, public image and face matters A LOT. Basically what dendi said, even if it was a joke, was almost equivalent to throwing a pile of dog shit in xiao8's face in front of 200k+ viewers. It's not fucking funny. They might have lost a lot of fans and friends with that 1 sentence.
I won't be surprised if no Chinese team wants to scrim with them at all anymore. Yesterday's BM was acceptable, but what he did just now was outrageous.
One thing about that - they need to get back to the West fast before they lose their advantage and give up everything they know. I already feel the Chinese getting a hang of Na'Vi's playstyle.
Same old story, same old bullshit. Chinese teams lose a few tournaments before TI2, everyone saying they suck why are they being invited to TI2, etc. etc.
Same old story again at TI3. Chinese/Asian teams will likely dominate the entire top 8 again, and the only difference is that you have two Western teams that can compete now rather than just one.
Same story except two tournaments IN CHINA, one of which was a LAN, lost to 1-2 Western teams vs. 7-8 Asian teams.
Yup, we've all seen that before. Oh wait.
Yeah, and Na'vi #threwgamesonpurposeingroupstage
Wait until TI3; the Chinese teams looked terrible prior to TI2 (watch some of the tournament footage), and then proceed to stomp literally everyone but Na'vi come TI2.
Even with a win in TI 3, the Chinese scene is at best able to bring itself back to equivalence. Losing a tournament on your home soil against 1-2 teams from other countries is simply very bad - it's what Koreans do to Westerners in SC 2, and we know there's a lopsided advantage there.
Equivalence? Winning TI3 would automatically put any Chinese team at the top, period. It's like how winning GSL in SC2 puts you at the top.
Best team, sure. Best scene, no. I place greater importance on uphill tournaments ie 1 Western team vs. 9-10 Asian teams when it comes to rating scenes, and you ought to too provided you believe that fluke wins aren't what matters.
You put importance on what supports your theory, got it.
If the best team in the world is western. And the next 6 are Chinese.
The western scene is not the best. And Alliance and Na'Vi winning these tournaments only proves their strength. I don't have any more faith in Mouz or TL to come far in these tournaments than I did a month ago.
That's why we don't take the rankings from a single tournament to decide skill parity. With the West today you at the minimum have both G-1 and Alienware. In case China wins TI 3 that doesn't retcon what happened in previous tournaments.
Still fascinates me on how different games, same website, the perspective is completely the opposite regarding culture clashes (for instance, watch SC2 reactions on these kind of drama).
Fascinating.
haha, these comments are awesome.
'hi，dendi，fuck the every women of your family，your sister and your mother make love with me together。now you‘d better get out of China，you die。'
'fuck your mother everyday .in the morning on the tree'
'Your dick is only a centimeter fuck you'
There are as many comments for Dendi as people who hate what he did.
It's expected really. Most of the ones up front are before ChuaN jumped in to save Dendi.
On July 10 2013 02:00 Stwy wrote: Most of you guys just don't understand. Chinese/ Asian culture is different from the west. Pride, public image and face matters A LOT. Basically what dendi said, even if it was a joke, was almost equivalent to throwing a pile of dog shit in xiao8's face in front of 200k+ viewers. It's not fucking funny. They might have lost a lot of fans and friends with that 1 sentence.
I won't be surprised if no Chinese team wants to scrim with them at all anymore. Yesterday's BM was acceptable, but what he did just now was outrageous.
One thing about that - they need to get back to the West fast before they lose their advantage and give up everything they know. I already feel the Chinese getting a hang of Na'Vi's playstyle.
Same old story, same old bullshit. Chinese teams lose a few tournaments before TI2, everyone saying they suck why are they being invited to TI2, etc. etc.
Same old story again at TI3. Chinese/Asian teams will likely dominate the entire top 8 again, and the only difference is that you have two Western teams that can compete now rather than just one.
Same story except two tournaments IN CHINA, one of which was a LAN, lost to 1-2 Western teams vs. 7-8 Asian teams.
Yup, we've all seen that before. Oh wait.
Yeah, and Na'vi #threwgamesonpurposeingroupstage
Wait until TI3; the Chinese teams looked terrible prior to TI2 (watch some of the tournament footage), and then proceed to stomp literally everyone but Na'vi come TI2.
Even with a win in TI 3, the Chinese scene is at best able to bring itself back to equivalence. Losing a tournament on your home soil against 1-2 teams from other countries is simply very bad - it's what Koreans do to Westerners in SC 2, and we know there's a lopsided advantage there.
Equivalence? Winning TI3 would automatically put any Chinese team at the top, period. It's like how winning GSL in SC2 puts you at the top.
Best team, sure. Best scene, no. I place greater importance on uphill tournaments ie 1 Western team vs. 9-10 Asian teams when it comes to rating scenes, and you ought to too provided you believe that fluke wins aren't what matters.
You put importance on what supports your theory, got it.
If the best team in the world is western. And the next 6 are Chinese.
The western scene is not the best. And Alliance and Na'Vi winning these tournaments only proves their strength. I don't have any more faith in Mouz or TL to come far in these tournaments than I did a month ago.
That's why we don't take the rankings from a single tournament to decide skill parity. With the West today you at the minimum have both G-1 and Alienware. In case China wins TI 3 that doesn't retcon what happened in previous tournaments.
That's why we don't only count the winner of tournaments.
You can't count G-1 as a 'west is the best' given TL's performance being the second best western team at the time.
One thing about that - they need to get back to the West fast before they lose their advantage and give up everything they know. I already feel the Chinese getting a hang of Na'Vi's playstyle.
Same old story, same old bullshit. Chinese teams lose a few tournaments before TI2, everyone saying they suck why are they being invited to TI2, etc. etc.
Same old story again at TI3. Chinese/Asian teams will likely dominate the entire top 8 again, and the only difference is that you have two Western teams that can compete now rather than just one.
Same story except two tournaments IN CHINA, one of which was a LAN, lost to 1-2 Western teams vs. 7-8 Asian teams.
Yup, we've all seen that before. Oh wait.
Yeah, and Na'vi #threwgamesonpurposeingroupstage
Wait until TI3; the Chinese teams looked terrible prior to TI2 (watch some of the tournament footage), and then proceed to stomp literally everyone but Na'vi come TI2.
Even with a win in TI 3, the Chinese scene is at best able to bring itself back to equivalence. Losing a tournament on your home soil against 1-2 teams from other countries is simply very bad - it's what Koreans do to Westerners in SC 2, and we know there's a lopsided advantage there.
Equivalence? Winning TI3 would automatically put any Chinese team at the top, period. It's like how winning GSL in SC2 puts you at the top.
Best team, sure. Best scene, no. I place greater importance on uphill tournaments ie 1 Western team vs. 9-10 Asian teams when it comes to rating scenes, and you ought to too provided you believe that fluke wins aren't what matters.
You put importance on what supports your theory, got it.
If the best team in the world is western. And the next 6 are Chinese.
The western scene is not the best. And Alliance and Na'Vi winning these tournaments only proves their strength. I don't have any more faith in Mouz or TL to come far in these tournaments than I did a month ago.
That's why we don't take the rankings from a single tournament to decide skill parity. With the West today you at the minimum have both G-1 and Alienware. In case China wins TI 3 that doesn't retcon what happened in previous tournaments.
That's why we don't only count the winner of tournaments.
You can't count G-1 as a 'west is the best' given TL's performance being the second best western team at the time.
Saying TL was the second best western team at the time is a big stretch. Specially considering their form immediatly after the tournament.
Disgusting reaction lol. Dendi is getting death threats and sick insults for that. Defending your culture by presenting it in a horrible light, stay classy Chinese fans.
Still fascinates me on how different games, same website, the perspective is completely the opposite regarding culture clashes (for instance, watch SC2 reactions on these kind of drama).
Fascinating.
A bit of trash talk, so what. Everyone knows how ROTK or Zhou can scream on lan. Trash talk is part of the game and if it is not to far, it just adds entertainment value.
Bringing someone's personal life into the open in front of 200k people is hardly comparable to trash talk by rotK. Oh well, it wasn't ill intentioned, at least.
One thing about that - they need to get back to the West fast before they lose their advantage and give up everything they know. I already feel the Chinese getting a hang of Na'Vi's playstyle.
Same old story, same old bullshit. Chinese teams lose a few tournaments before TI2, everyone saying they suck why are they being invited to TI2, etc. etc.
Same old story again at TI3. Chinese/Asian teams will likely dominate the entire top 8 again, and the only difference is that you have two Western teams that can compete now rather than just one.
Same story except two tournaments IN CHINA, one of which was a LAN, lost to 1-2 Western teams vs. 7-8 Asian teams.
Yup, we've all seen that before. Oh wait.
Yeah, and Na'vi #threwgamesonpurposeingroupstage
Wait until TI3; the Chinese teams looked terrible prior to TI2 (watch some of the tournament footage), and then proceed to stomp literally everyone but Na'vi come TI2.
Even with a win in TI 3, the Chinese scene is at best able to bring itself back to equivalence. Losing a tournament on your home soil against 1-2 teams from other countries is simply very bad - it's what Koreans do to Westerners in SC 2, and we know there's a lopsided advantage there.
Equivalence? Winning TI3 would automatically put any Chinese team at the top, period. It's like how winning GSL in SC2 puts you at the top.
Best team, sure. Best scene, no. I place greater importance on uphill tournaments ie 1 Western team vs. 9-10 Asian teams when it comes to rating scenes, and you ought to too provided you believe that fluke wins aren't what matters.
You put importance on what supports your theory, got it.
If the best team in the world is western. And the next 6 are Chinese.
The western scene is not the best. And Alliance and Na'Vi winning these tournaments only proves their strength. I don't have any more faith in Mouz or TL to come far in these tournaments than I did a month ago.
That's why we don't take the rankings from a single tournament to decide skill parity. With the West today you at the minimum have both G-1 and Alienware. In case China wins TI 3 that doesn't retcon what happened in previous tournaments.
That's why we don't only count the winner of tournaments.
You can't count G-1 as a 'west is the best' given TL's performance being the second best western team at the time.
TL was out of their league in G-1 but still managed to stomp iG, showing that Western preparation / meta is ahead because from what I recall Liquid -
Analyzed iG's draft and were correct about 70+% of the bans and picks Was a Wisp picker
Now that Liquid is bootcamping I imagine they're going to do better in TI 3. But only Bulba knows what form they're in today.
Still fascinates me on how different games, same website, the perspective is completely the opposite regarding culture clashes (for instance, watch SC2 reactions on these kind of drama).
Fascinating.
A bit of trash talk, so what. Everyone knows how ROTK or Zhou can scream on lan. Trash talk is part of the game and if it is not to far, it just adds entertainment value.
Bringing someone's personal life into the open in front of 200k people is hardly comparable to trash talk by rotK. Oh well, it wasn't ill intentioned, at least.
261k, gLhF.Revere! And come on, how many views has that video now? 50k on youtube, how much for the chinese? Did you get banned on jd, don't see you there to often.
edit: for the guys who might not know what i mean:
Still fascinates me on how different games, same website, the perspective is completely the opposite regarding culture clashes (for instance, watch SC2 reactions on these kind of drama).
Fascinating.
A bit of trash talk, so what. Everyone knows how ROTK or Zhou can scream on lan. Trash talk is part of the game and if it is not to far, it just adds entertainment value.
Bringing someone's personal life into the open in front of 200k people is hardly comparable to trash talk by rotK. Oh well, it wasn't ill intentioned, at least.
261k, gLhF.Revere! And come on, how many views has that video now? 50k on youtube, how much for the chinese? Did you get banned on jd, don't see you there to often.
Are rotk and Zhou bringing each other's personal lives into the open? No.
On July 10 2013 02:00 Stwy wrote: Most of you guys just don't understand. Chinese/ Asian culture is different from the west. Pride, public image and face matters A LOT. Basically what dendi said, even if it was a joke, was almost equivalent to throwing a pile of dog shit in xiao8's face in front of 200k+ viewers. It's not fucking funny. They might have lost a lot of fans and friends with that 1 sentence.
I won't be surprised if no Chinese team wants to scrim with them at all anymore. Yesterday's BM was acceptable, but what he did just now was outrageous.
One thing about that - they need to get back to the West fast before they lose their advantage and give up everything they know. I already feel the Chinese getting a hang of Na'Vi's playstyle.
Same old story, same old bullshit. Chinese teams lose a few tournaments before TI2, everyone saying they suck why are they being invited to TI2, etc. etc.
Same old story again at TI3. Chinese/Asian teams will likely dominate the entire top 8 again, and the only difference is that you have two Western teams that can compete now rather than just one.
Same story except two tournaments IN CHINA, one of which was a LAN, lost to 1-2 Western teams vs. 7-8 Asian teams.
Yup, we've all seen that before. Oh wait.
Yeah, and Na'vi #threwgamesonpurposeingroupstage
Wait until TI3; the Chinese teams looked terrible prior to TI2 (watch some of the tournament footage), and then proceed to stomp literally everyone but Na'vi come TI2.
Even with a win in TI 3, the Chinese scene is at best able to bring itself back to equivalence. Losing a tournament on your home soil against 1-2 teams from other countries is simply very bad - it's what Koreans do to Westerners in SC 2, and we know there's a lopsided advantage there.
Equivalence? Winning TI3 would automatically put any Chinese team at the top, period. It's like how winning GSL in SC2 puts you at the top.
Winning a GSL never meant you were definatelly the best player in the world. Plenty of GSL winners were considered at the same level or even below other players that didn't win the competition. A single tournament is a single tournament, like in any sport the best team not always win. It's not something that should be used to take away from their achievement, but the logic that beating someone in a single, often very close, series means you are clearly better than them is just flawed.
For awhile it was because it was the biggest tournament. If you can't win the biggest tournament, you aren't the best player in the world, period.
That means that the best player in the world changed almost montly. There was the time were MVP was dominating and got multiple GSL's, just because Nestea or MC one a GSL in between it didn't mean they were better than MVP. A single tournament is a single tournament. It's like saying Greece was the best european football team in 2004. Upsets happen.
You can have defacto #1 all you want by winning all smaller tournaments. If you can't win the big one it doesn't mean shit. That's how it is in any game or sport. If Na'vi/Alliance fail to win/place high in TI3, and it just means that their wins are pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of things, because they couldn't get it done at the biggest stage.
For example, no one gives a fuck that Marcelos Rios was World #1 in tennis. Why? Because he never could get it done on the biggest stage against the best players. Sure he played the best for the most part over the course of the year. Great. Doesn't matter.
On July 10 2013 03:47 Azarkon wrote: Nothing ever works out that neatly in tournaments.
Well, afaik nothing bad happened with teams at the TI2 and I am going by that.
There are upsets, there are personal / health issues, there are team conflicts, and so on that prevent one tournament from being the end all be all.
In other words, luck is always a factor, that's true. But it can't be the deciding one in the long run.
It's why every tournament counts and not just TI.
Nobody is saying that G-1 and AWC victories don't count, mind you. But, you don't take meta shifts and different tournament systems in account. As perfect Alliance's G-1 run was, there were only 6 teams, Bo1 group stage and single elimination playoffs. As close AWC's format to TI2 was, it has been running for 2 weaks. TI3 would be over in 5 days, I believe.
That's why if we are to compare the pro scenes, TI ratings should be the most valuable ones.
EPT
