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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 25 2013 10:42 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:41 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:39 teapoted wrote:On November 25 2013 10:37 TheYango wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 werynais wrote:
Well that was something, Speed should have just finished the game 30 minutes ago ...serious fuck up You cannot high ground haphazardly vs. Earthshaker. He is one of the most powerful heroes in the game for fighting a defensive fight in your base. If anything, LanM showed that this game. No, but they multiple times got refresher echo'ed on 3 heroes. The first time they weren't even in DK's base. Obviously amazing play from lanm, but like any great RP, great Ravage, great Echo Slam. 50% of the work is done by your opponents. when those heroes have blink though it takes a couple seconds of mis micro in the timsepan of like 50 minutes to get caught out It really isn't as difficult as you make it sound. Teams learned to play against Ravage, teams learned to play against RP. Speed did not respect ES as much as they would have respected a Magnus to not get caught out.
totally true, it isn't easy though to be constantly aware with everyone else going on, im thinking more in the middle of teamfights when you're trying to avoid the bear/pugna ult etc.
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Vatican City State2902 Posts
On November 25 2013 10:41 Hagen0 wrote:
Icefrog's attempt to lower game time is failing spectacularly so far.
Well, most of the games are lower. This is just an outlier.
Though, I'll say, we haven't seen too many 15 minute GG's in 6.79, which is meh. I think Icefrog really nerfed facerush too hard back when iG were dominating with it.
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On November 25 2013 10:43 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:42 Latham wrote:On November 25 2013 10:39 Gallimatias wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 Gentso wrote:
Ok guys I really like DK but they're style this tournament is REALLY annoying for me to watch. Agreed, pushing strats are lame. I hope they show in game 2 that they are confident enough to face Speed in a straight late game battle. It's not even about pushing strats, it's that fucking mentality of ultra safe play and fighting for fucking nanometers of space instead of going for a full yard. It's enraging to watch. Was the same during TI3. Again....play to win
Again... please get knocked out of the next TI as first asian team and in the ro8(?). These kind of slugfests deserve it.
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On November 25 2013 10:28 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:26 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On November 25 2013 10:24 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:23 zezamer wrote:On November 25 2013 10:09 zezamer wrote:
I have feeling that DK's gonna take this eventually despite casters saying they're in horrible position TOLD YA im listening to chinese stream because LD always talks shit when it comes to the position teams are in I seriously don't get how he acts like a 12 slotted bear wouldn't do much more... even just with these items the hero is already so, so much better. I mean almost perma stunning Outworld probably won them the important fight. that and lanm, i really think LD is the worst caster on BTS just for that reason though
Hmm? I'm fairly certain LD's analysis is almost always on-point. The bad one is Lumi. I don't know what you think, but DK was obviously in a terrible position from where i am looking.
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On November 25 2013 10:42 Latham wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:39 Gallimatias wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 Gentso wrote:
Ok guys I really like DK but they're style this tournament is REALLY annoying for me to watch. Agreed, pushing strats are lame. I hope they show in game 2 that they are confident enough to face Speed in a straight late game battle. It's not even about pushing strats, it's that fucking mentality of ultra safe play and fighting for fucking nanometers of space instead of going for a full yard. It's enraging to watch. Was the same during TI3.
Maybe for you it's enraging, but I bet their hard is pumping like crazy every single second. I'd try to appreciate it and the small subtle things they do to win, cause it won't change.
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On November 25 2013 10:43 merinerkongprine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:42 Kuroeeah wrote:
heh, i think speed would have won if he completed a rapier instead of a second daedalus Sing bought the second daedalus wayyyy before dk got mega creeps. No point in buying a rapier anytime beforehand.
Why no point? Xboct did it albeit on a different hero in a different game, but the rapier forces the opponent into a much more different mindset, and gives you more consistent splash damage compared to hoping for a crit each cleave.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 25 2013 10:44 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:39 teapoted wrote:On November 25 2013 10:37 TheYango wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 werynais wrote:
Well that was something, Speed should have just finished the game 30 minutes ago ...serious fuck up You cannot high ground haphazardly vs. Earthshaker. He is one of the most powerful heroes in the game for fighting a defensive fight in your base. If anything, LanM showed that this game. No, but they multiple times got refresher echo'ed on 3 heroes. The first time they weren't even in DK's base. Obviously amazing play from lanm, but like any great RP, great Ravage, great Echo Slam. 50% of the work is done by your opponents. While it does rely on your opponents stacking up, it is just the way the game the game works. You cant have 4-5 people coordinating to stay apart all the time. And it was LanMs job to stay calm and patient and wait for the opponents to stack up, which is what made his earthshaker so damn awesome We're not talking about a hero with a global blink. Both times they got caught out that really changed the game they knew where the ES was.
If it was a magnus, this would not happen.
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On November 25 2013 10:44 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:42 Kuroeeah wrote:
heh, i think speed would have won if he completed a rapier instead of a second daedalus Sing had a rapier with his second daedelus. He lost it in the final moments
Yup, tho I'm not sure if he's saying Rapier before the second daedelus.
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On November 25 2013 10:42 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:41 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:39 teapoted wrote:On November 25 2013 10:37 TheYango wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 werynais wrote:
Well that was something, Speed should have just finished the game 30 minutes ago ...serious fuck up You cannot high ground haphazardly vs. Earthshaker. He is one of the most powerful heroes in the game for fighting a defensive fight in your base. If anything, LanM showed that this game. No, but they multiple times got refresher echo'ed on 3 heroes. The first time they weren't even in DK's base. Obviously amazing play from lanm, but like any great RP, great Ravage, great Echo Slam. 50% of the work is done by your opponents. when those heroes have blink though it takes a couple seconds of mis micro in the timsepan of like 50 minutes to get caught out It really isn't as difficult as you make it sound. Teams learned to play against Ravage, teams learned to play against RP. Speed did not respect ES as much as they would have respected a Magnus to not get caught out.
No it was not about respect. It was about RTZ's bad play. He constantly played over aggressive and out of position compared to his team, force staffing forward when he had no BKB to chase. You know how many times he got killed by Pugna's drain because he was over-extended and chasing and couldn't turn around to astral Pugna? He acted like he was playing weaver or TA and totally threw it for his team. It wasn't just the one fight in base when Lanm caught him out. There were at least 3 diff instances of RTZ playing way too aggressive and getting himself killed, thereby making it impossible for SPG to push raxes.
I 100% blame RTZ for that loss.
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Need another 75 mins game and a win for Speed.
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On November 25 2013 10:44 LunArMerlin wrote:
Sing @Sing2X 2m
SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT 2 RAPIERS @NaViXBOCT
You live and you learn
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On November 25 2013 10:43 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:40 Piledriver wrote:On November 25 2013 10:37 IndyO wrote:
Wow fuck that went long.... Super intense at the end but it did really drag on. Should have gotten Sing the rapier before they were trapped in there base. Or tried to contest Roshan. I guess a million what if's in a match like that. I think in a way Icefrog has increased the Dire advantage for Rosh by making it random spawn. Previously, you knew the exact timing of Rosh spawn and you could organize a defense around it. But with the new changes Its much more easier for dire to keep popping in and out to scout it and then kill it as soon as it spawns. I think the 5 roshes made the biggest difference this game for DK. Add a second rosh spot near radiant secret shop, now rosh spawns randomly between those 2. More seriously I had the exact same thought during the game.
Indeed that thought crossed my mind, I wonder if he will change it after this MLG.
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On November 25 2013 10:44 LunArMerlin wrote:
Sing @Sing2X 2m
SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT 2 RAPIERS @NaViXBOCT
aui looked shattered
i'm glad sing isn't too down to make a joke on twitter and at the end of the game on cam eternalenvy was smiling so i don't think they're all on tilt
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On November 25 2013 10:42 Latham wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:39 Gallimatias wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 Gentso wrote:
Ok guys I really like DK but they're style this tournament is REALLY annoying for me to watch. Agreed, pushing strats are lame. I hope they show in game 2 that they are confident enough to face Speed in a straight late game battle. It's not even about pushing strats, it's that fucking mentality of ultra safe play and fighting for fucking nanometers of space instead of going for a full yard. It's enraging to watch. Was the same during TI3.
You're playing for 40k USD, obviously you don't wanna risk it by doing something stupid. It's just unfortunate, but the tension is what makes it exciting to watch.
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On November 25 2013 10:44 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:42 Kuroeeah wrote:
heh, i think speed would have won if he completed a rapier instead of a second daedalus Sing had a rapier with his second daedelus. He lost it in the final moments
i think speed might have been able to breach DK's base if he had a rapier before completing his second daed but it's tough to call given lanm was the sole reason why DK held.
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On November 25 2013 10:43 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:42 Latham wrote:On November 25 2013 10:39 Gallimatias wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 Gentso wrote:
Ok guys I really like DK but they're style this tournament is REALLY annoying for me to watch. Agreed, pushing strats are lame. I hope they show in game 2 that they are confident enough to face Speed in a straight late game battle. It's not even about pushing strats, it's that fucking mentality of ultra safe play and fighting for fucking nanometers of space instead of going for a full yard. It's enraging to watch. Was the same during TI3. Again....play to win
Yes, play to win, but it's still enraging to watch for a lot of people.
Nothing against the team, but I hate DK's strategy.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 25 2013 10:45 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:28 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:26 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On November 25 2013 10:24 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:23 zezamer wrote:On November 25 2013 10:09 zezamer wrote:
I have feeling that DK's gonna take this eventually despite casters saying they're in horrible position TOLD YA im listening to chinese stream because LD always talks shit when it comes to the position teams are in I seriously don't get how he acts like a 12 slotted bear wouldn't do much more... even just with these items the hero is already so, so much better. I mean almost perma stunning Outworld probably won them the important fight. that and lanm, i really think LD is the worst caster on BTS just for that reason though Hmm? I'm fairly certain LD's analysis is almost always on-point. The bad one is Lumi. I don't know what you think, but DK was obviously in a terrible position from where i am looking.
one teamwipe either way after DK had those two wipes top and it was probably a set of rax for the other team, gold was in DK's favour and XP in kaipi's all game
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On November 25 2013 10:45 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:28 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:26 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On November 25 2013 10:24 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:23 zezamer wrote:On November 25 2013 10:09 zezamer wrote:
I have feeling that DK's gonna take this eventually despite casters saying they're in horrible position TOLD YA im listening to chinese stream because LD always talks shit when it comes to the position teams are in I seriously don't get how he acts like a 12 slotted bear wouldn't do much more... even just with these items the hero is already so, so much better. I mean almost perma stunning Outworld probably won them the important fight. that and lanm, i really think LD is the worst caster on BTS just for that reason though Hmm? I'm fairly certain LD's analysis is almost always on-point. The bad one is Lumi. I don't know what you think, but DK was obviously in a terrible position from where i am looking.
Yeah, LD is an amazing analyst. I think Targe wants more play-by-play/doesn't like LD, since he named Tobi/Ayesee as his favorits, whom both just talk without saying a lot (tobi has gotten a ton better though).
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On November 25 2013 10:45 SongByungWewt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:42 teapoted wrote:On November 25 2013 10:41 Targe wrote:On November 25 2013 10:39 teapoted wrote:On November 25 2013 10:37 TheYango wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 werynais wrote:
Well that was something, Speed should have just finished the game 30 minutes ago ...serious fuck up You cannot high ground haphazardly vs. Earthshaker. He is one of the most powerful heroes in the game for fighting a defensive fight in your base. If anything, LanM showed that this game. No, but they multiple times got refresher echo'ed on 3 heroes. The first time they weren't even in DK's base. Obviously amazing play from lanm, but like any great RP, great Ravage, great Echo Slam. 50% of the work is done by your opponents. when those heroes have blink though it takes a couple seconds of mis micro in the timsepan of like 50 minutes to get caught out It really isn't as difficult as you make it sound. Teams learned to play against Ravage, teams learned to play against RP. Speed did not respect ES as much as they would have respected a Magnus to not get caught out. No it was not about respect. It was about RTZ's bad play. He constantly played over aggressive and out of position compared to his team, force staffing forward when he had no BKB to chase. You know how many times he got killed by Pugna's drain because he was over-extended and chasing and couldn't turn around to astral Pugna? He acted like he was playing weaver or TA and totally threw it for his team. It wasn't just the one fight in base when Lanm caught him out. There were at least 3 diff instances of RTZ playing way too aggressive and getting himself killed, thereby making it impossible for SPG to push raxes. I 100% blame RTZ for that loss. RTZ played fine until after the point where they should have won. Then obviously the pressure got to him but they shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.
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On November 25 2013 10:42 Latham wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:39 Gallimatias wrote:On November 25 2013 10:36 Gentso wrote:
Ok guys I really like DK but they're style this tournament is REALLY annoying for me to watch. Agreed, pushing strats are lame. I hope they show in game 2 that they are confident enough to face Speed in a straight late game battle. It's not even about pushing strats, it's that fucking mentality of ultra safe play and fighting for fucking nanometers of space instead of going for a full yard. It's enraging to watch. Was the same during TI3.
What are you talking about? DK HAD to play like this because they made 2 huge mistakes in the early stages of the game where they got teamwiped and after that they were by far weaker than Speed. Besides, every team plays to win, so complaining about safe play style has always been pretty stupid.
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EPT
