But fights with this teamcomp play out such that this is more important than him being able control space in a fight, especially since they picked 2 supports that don't have burst damage.

It gets a little better now because with BFly, SF's items make him somewhat more self-sufficient.

Veles

United States3280 Posts

April 10 2014 19:21 GMT

#1322

On April 11 2014 04:19 TheYango wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well good dooms matter; if you look at the fight top, DK was a melee creep while doom was active. The issue for c9 was that they pushed way too far out of their base given that they were way behind.

and gg

lolfail9001

Russian Federation40190 Posts

April 10 2014 19:22 GMT

#1323

That was epitome of greed, granted it was cute to see speed at which C9 were exploding in the end.

zezamer

Finland5701 Posts

April 10 2014 19:22 GMT

#1324

A deathball too stronk

Jehct

New Zealand9115 Posts

April 10 2014 19:25 GMT

#1325

Imagine how good C9's push is if envy gets a real item, pieliedie gets a halberd and bone7 stacks auras. Iuno how they thought they were farming 4 heroes and going late that game.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 10 2014 19:27 GMT

#1326

It's not even like going lategame would necessarily be good for them if you account for their reduced farming space from A's map control.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 10 2014 19:29 GMT

#1327

Well the plan was for PLD to farm in [A] space with radiance illusions while the rest farmed their space but it didn't really work that way.

Kuroeeah

11696 Posts

April 10 2014 19:30 GMT

#1328

On April 11 2014 04:27 TheYango wrote:
It's not even like going lategame would necessarily be good for them if you account for their reduced farming space from A's map control.

maybe they thought the radiance naga will help them regain map control or something 20 minute midas i dont know.

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 10 2014 19:31 GMT

#1329

Couldn't it be that c9 wanted to take fights and towers relatively early as EE was on his way to something like 13min bkb, but then they managed to smoke him once and kill him right after with the shadowblade + AA ult, and then with the bkb coming much later they thought that they can't really just group up and push as they wanted to? They then may have decided to try to take it late when the Alliance got the key pickoffs before c9 was planning to hit their timing with the early bkb.

Jehct

New Zealand9115 Posts

April 10 2014 19:32 GMT

#1330

I can't imagine a situation where going lategame against a morphling global strat is a good idea. Even if the Naga was their one it seems ass.

Veles

United States3280 Posts

April 10 2014 19:33 GMT

#1331

The game felt sour for c9 so I understand where the desire to take it late came from. Imo a major problem was that [A] had very good pickoff and that makes it hard for naga to aggressively split push.

Also c9 needed atleast 10 more minutes to catch up with their naga and midas. They got too cocky and messed up rosh, got caught out, etc. I think if they played a clean game after naga finished radiance they would eventually have 4 cores + dazzle.
If [A] can't break a lane by 40 minutes they lose the game after 60 when c9 can finally assert their farm.

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 10 2014 19:34 GMT

#1332

Sure taking the game late isn't maybe a great idea to begin with, but taking the game later where you might be able to capitalize on some mistakes from the opponent and just catch them offguard before rosh, without a buyback or whatever can still be better than doing a doom push if you think that you don't have a shot at pulling it off successfully.

FuzzyJAM

Scotland9300 Posts

April 10 2014 19:36 GMT

#1333

On April 11 2014 04:31 spudde123 wrote:
Couldn't it be that c9 wanted to take fights and towers relatively early as EE was on his way to something like 13min bkb, but then they managed to smoke him once and kill him right after with the shadowblade + AA ult, and then with the bkb coming much later they thought that they can't really just group up and push as they wanted to? They then may have decided to try to take it late when the Alliance got the key pickoffs before c9 was planning to hit their timing with the early bkb.

Pretty much. C9 had a game plan (win 15-25 minute mark HARD, end game) that was screwed by S4's DK and then they went to an awful plan B of a quad core, including a Radiance Naga, which obviously did not work and I don't see how it ever could have.

Totally switching your game plan minute 20 is never likely to work out well.

Sabu113

United States11048 Posts

April 10 2014 19:40 GMT

#1334

That analysis sounds on the money. Surprised the Envy Drow is that scary.

Io. Huh.Who are going to the meat.

The hated Gyro :p

lolfail9001

Russian Federation40190 Posts

April 10 2014 19:41 GMT

#1335

Incoming the hilarious gyro-io offensive duolane.

Veles

United States3280 Posts

April 10 2014 19:42 GMT

#1336

c9 i have hope. Pls show me how to win with gyro

lolfail9001

Russian Federation40190 Posts

April 10 2014 19:43 GMT

#1337

On April 11 2014 04:42 Veles wrote:
c9 i have hope. Pls show me how to win with gyro

Watch C9 vs Empire at D2CL game 2 IIRC. Gyro-wisp there destroyed trilane from Empire lol. I swear, C9 had almost the same draft, except they had someone instead of Visage.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 10 2014 19:44 GMT

#1338

On April 11 2014 04:33 Veles wrote:
If [A] can't break a lane by 40 minutes they lose the game after 60 when c9 can finally assert their farm.

That's true on even items, but if A maintains an item advantage with their map control and ganking potential, its fine for them.

Again, the key is the Doom. If the Doom can survive to create space for the 2 ranged cores to do damage, then C9's lineup will win a fight. If the Doom has to run after the first round of spells or can't manfight one of A's secondary cores, then C9's 2 ranged cores can't stand and do damage and have to run.