"Hey I'm fine here can you gank mid/stack/ward" "hey you keep dying in this lane but I'm safe, can you go somewhere else" are not flames and won't lose the game. This advice is solid you just don't actually say "f off"
What worries me is if someone is REALLY bad I feel guilty sending them to another lane, or have them try to gank and feed instead

evanthebouncy!

United States12796 Posts

October 19 2015 22:57 GMT

#23

expecting beesa's one liner response here any time now...

annnny time now...

MidgetExplosion

United States137 Posts

October 20 2015 18:44 GMT

#24

On October 20 2015 06:40 DavoS wrote:

Show nested quote +

Telling someone to f off when they're trying to help you is an awful thing to do. If that's honestly how you have to play DOTA then it would seem to me that only complete waste of life assholes who should be put down would enjoy it. You need to consider people's feelings a little and not just tell them to go away because they're being useless. Why not try and help them, respectfully, to get them to do what they need to do? If they leave your lane, where the hell else are they supposed to go? They can't jungle, so where does the XP come from? Instead of telling them to f off, respectfully give them some direction. Unless of course you have none to give them, which means you're just as noob as you think they are. And when I say direction, I mean REAL direction, not just "Hey gank mid/stack/ward." That doesn't actually mean anything. He can't ward without gold, which he isn't getting because he has no farm. Stacking gives him no XP at all, so how does that help him not be level 2 15 minutes into the game? And ganking mid can't be done with certain support heroes without some major direction, like when, where to come from, or smoking, or getting a rune before hand. Be more empathetic, stamping someone a retard immediately will 100% lose you games. And that is YOUR fault, not his.

Basically Number 2 is good advice to a point, what you need to do is tell them specifically what you want them to do instead of being in your lane. Unless of course standing in your lane IS the best thing for him to do, which in some cases it definitely is. It's never a GOOD thing, but sometimes it is the best. DOTA is a ridiculously situational game. If your team just gets dramatically out-picked you've already lost, so telling your support to f off because he's being useless, even though there is no possible way for him to be useful anywhere else, is just malicious, inconsiderate and blatantly wrong.

Kaj

Singapore269 Posts

October 21 2015 01:58 GMT

#25

You are wrong. A useless support in lane is just a xp sponge. Worse if he cant even pull properly, feeding the enemy offlaner ez xp, without him doing anything. And at the end of the game, the enemy offlaner will be spamming in allchat, ez offlane ez life, ez game. If a support sits in lane, doing nothing, the only thing hes fucking with is you and your team. Even sending him to help the offlaner will make himself x10 more useful than having in him in lane. Because its just easier to spam spells on their carries and stuff rather than have them learn the harder stuff like maintain creep equilibrium, pulling creeps properly and when to do it, and zoning out the offlaner. Unless all of the above are done properly, all the shit support do is detrimental to the team, by feeding the enemy offlaner, and ensuring that he has a good time in lane and not you.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8908 Posts

October 21 2015 19:38 GMT

#26

woah woah woah

telling a support to just abandon the lane and go help the offlaner is not necessarily the right thing to do. remember the role of the offlaner - to not die, soak xp, and if possible, bother the enemy carry. if they're screwing up the safe lane, do you think it will be any better to have them go, underleveled, to the offlane where they can't, at the very least, stack?

now instead of taking experience from you, they're taking experience from the offlaner. instead of stacking camps for you to farm up, they're *maybe* doing something to the enemy carry.

what you should be doing (since you're more knowledgeable on how to play support than that person) is telling them what you need them to do. if they can't pull, have them stack. have them secure the rune for your mid.

if they don't listen, then oh well. but by doing that stuff, you're turning yourself into a leader and when you do that, often times 4 random players will realize that they can listen to you and rally around you. at least you can have that going for you instead of tilting yourself and the offlaner bc they're not playing 'perfectly' or 'ideally'

BlueSpace

Germany2182 Posts

October 21 2015 21:33 GMT

#27

If the support does not know how to pull decently, he won't be much better at ganging and stacking. So sending him away isn't doing anything. These strategies also revolve around non-retarded compositions in pub games and I have yet to see those on a regular basis. Be happy when the support knows what they are doing and if not just do it yourself. Telling people what to do in this game from minute one is never going to work. People listen to you, when you manage to get far ahead, otherwise they don't. Minute one no one is ahead, so no one will listen.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8908 Posts

October 21 2015 22:10 GMT

#28

On October 22 2015 06:33 BlueSpace wrote:
If the support does not know how to pull decently, he won't be much better at ganging and stacking. So sending him away isn't doing anything. These strategies also revolve around non-retarded compositions in pub games and I have yet to see those on a regular basis. Be happy when the support knows what they are doing and if not just do it yourself. Telling people what to do in this game from minute one is never going to work. People listen to you, when you manage to get far ahead, otherwise they don't. Minute one no one is ahead, so no one will listen.

this is not true at all. telling someone to stack at :53 is completely different from the pull times and knowing the different pulls, when to pull, etc. they are two different aspects to support play. that's not to say they are not mutually exclusive, though.

and ANYONE can stack (and/or pull), you don't have to have a "non-retarded composition" to do these things.

BigO

Sweden956 Posts

October 22 2015 00:38 GMT

#29

I guess this all comes down to what level you play on. I would asume it's a really uncommon thing for a 3k support to realise he is not doing anything useful in lane and so he goes stacking/roaming/whatever, but in higher level games that should be something the support players are aware of (not always the case though). Going through the process of explaining why a support should leave the lane and what he should do usually takes to much focus from the carry, since in most games there is always gonna be some arguing as well. I feel like it's one of those cases where either the support already knows what to do and why he should do it or he don't and there isn't much to do about it. A carry can't really afford to share his focus on both last hitting/watching the minimap etc and also trying to teach a guy how to play his role, that doesn't work for so many reasons.

Whenever a support is not actively winning the lane for his carry, he's pretty much actively helping their offlaner/s win the lane by taking xp from the carry. At least that's the way I see it.

HarryJ95

1 Post

December 25 2020 18:24 GMT

#30

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DavisIT

1 Post

December 25 2020 19:38 GMT

#31

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Ashleyy

1 Post