EPTOn December 24 2015 15:45 Klipsys wrote:
thoughts on tranquils vs power treads and playing riki as a 4/5?
thoughts on tranquils vs power treads and playing riki as a 4/5?
unfortunately all i can say is play bounty hunter instead
[Hero] Riki - Page 4
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
unfortunately all i can say is play bounty hunter instead | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
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hound_98
United States66 Posts
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xluik
201 Posts
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On March 31 2016 12:00 xluik wrote: Actually his ultimate is pretty decent but just not overwhelming. It's like a hybrid of puck's phase shift + ember's sleight of fist, both of which are blink carriers. If the map is warded, just try to farm a gem up asap and start dewarding. If you're dusted, just purge yourself from diffusal. His ultimate is best used on heros with channeling spells (like CM, warlock, enigma, pudge, etc) or illusion heros like PL and CK. One thing i agree on is that he's not played right by most people atm. The ult doesn't hit illusions anymore. They patched it after battlefury riki got popular. Which means it's actually bad vs Illusions heros since you only hit the real one, not the illusions. | ||
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xluik
201 Posts
Edit: Oh wow, it got patched but I didn't notice. Ok. Wrong info I guess on being good against illusion heros. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On March 31 2016 12:07 xluik wrote: i thought the ult doesn't hit creeps but does hit illusions. Last i played that hero was on Sunday so... Edit: Oh wow, it got patched but I didn't notice. Ok. Wrong info I guess on being good against illusion heros. No problem, they changed it a month? back or something in a small patch for bugs and stuff. Not a lot of fanfare, a lot of people missed it. I was mostly using ult to dodge/stall, was just trolling in unranked with a friend, ds/riki lane. That said, hero feels underwhelming, like there doesn't even feel like he has a niche anymore. Will be interesting to see what is done with it. Rework abilities, or buff them possibly. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6227 Posts
The old old old one was the definition of pubcancer. The new one is just plain bad. Icefrog needs to start again. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
since the earliest days, they made it so that riki (for the purposes of discussion here) loses invis if silenced. to balance around that, riki gained charges of invis where he retains it in situations where he should lose it so long as he has charges. charges were then removed but the silence interaction stayed. sounds convoluted but interesting nonetheless. let's take a look at his skills, albeit it's a hero designed around a faster paced game. as a ganking hero, smokescreen works the same in both games but with a much larger CD in HoN at 9s downtime between casts at max level. comparatively, it's a much better value point in dota 2 since the duration and cd are static at all levels. at level 1, it's 40% misschance and 25% slow, a silence, for up to 6 seconds. mana cost is... you know, for a hero like riki it's basically a storm hammer to sven. luckily it's a hero that builds treads relatively fast. blink strike is once again similar, with the added difference that it's more worthwhile for the HoN version. just greater damage from lower levels and a higher ceiling at 50% more damage. 120 bonus damage at max which is quite the difference at 4s CD. this was the old blink strike in dota 2 prior to 6.82 and was probably seen as too strong in pubs. they changed it to have charges starting from level 6 (it was his ulti) where it did 40/70/100+backstab as it works now. levels 11/16 didn't make much of a difference to the utility of the skill, but it's all moot now since the skill is now a nerfed version of the first iteration of the skill. it's strictly 50% less damage. interestingly, the damage is applied as magical, i'm assuming just the bonus damage and it seems like a small added benefit to low armored supports earlier into the game. the following skills are what sets rikimaru as the hero it is in dota 2. backstab has almost always been that passive that you upgrade for scalability in agi damage. it now weighs heavily into your fade-time and thus your survivability. a two second difference between levels 1 and 3 is a world of difference imo. it pretty much means you need a fast level 5 if you want to be able to contend in a lane as a pos 1-3. it is a hero that's strong against very bad players who take harass, let riki have levels, and run away from smokescreen often... and it will forever remain that way. playing from the safelane, i think you'd still start PMS into boots aquila, treads/wand, drums route that most safelane farmers are going these days. from where do you go then? well your support takes lane and you walk into enemy jungle. if they're good, you get crushed. if you don't get crushed, it's basically par for the course except you put some supports in the grave, and your support is getting some xp and farm in the safelane if they can manage. the problem with all that is that their offlane is getting a lot out of it, and there's nothing you can do about it until you get your first real item, 4-5 kills later. there is no farming speed that takes advantage of the character strengths, it's straight up a ganking hero with one real purpose in killing heroes repeatedly. imho what made night hound great in HoN pubs was his low fade time. hits 6, paradigm shifts. it is now in dota 2 and since pretty much the beginning a hero that preys on weak players and weak lanes. what's important to know though is that using items does not break invis. and i guess this is where the utility/roaming support idea comes in. force staff, hex, glimmer, quelling blade, etc. you name it. it's a walking silence bot that can use items on you at will. it also offers nothing than a niche support game in lane and a small window to snowball into a ganking support pre-midgame--once again--if your opponents are playing poorly (quite literally). so i think one of these fighting patches, you might see a riki in pos "1"/"1.5" where you offer another player the chance to become core while he's busy making the other team poor. otherwise the hero is just a gateway drug into playing dota 2, which doesn't last very long. | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
The version with Blink Strike ulti was pretty cool, though. Maybe change his current Blink Strike to gain charges just like DP's Spirit Siphon and balance the hero around that. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
I almost wish the ult was capped at 1 attack for 1 second, but given a much shorter cooldown. Something where you'd use it to deal a burst of teamfight oriented damage, but it'd also function a bit more like PL's doppleganger where you use it to get some invincibility time. So you'd activate it, Riki would disappear, then in 1 second strike everything around him and reappear. Or charges, but I don't like charges on abilities. But then that's just SoF but worse because it doesn't hit heroes. The problem with is now is there's such a narrow window when the ult does enough damage to be worthwhile for the damage. Too much farm and your right clicks are way more damage, too little and it doesn't matter anyways. The invincibility of it is great, but typically being invulnerable for that long has limited uses when it comes at the cost of a practical ultimate. It's just a really underwhelming ultimate the way the numbers are now. Thematically Riki is a mess. Even if his numbers were tweaked to be decent he'd still somehow be less centered around the invisibility than the other invis heroes. Brood, Slark, Clinkz, Nyx, Treant, and BH all have way more practical and versatile invisibility mechanics because they accomplish some sort of hero goal. Riki's invis is just sort of this awkward way for him to get into/out of fights. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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Gimpb
293 Posts
I think the reason it has been working for me is I am able to place a large burden on the supports. He's hard to keep out of xp range since invis lets you sneak around sentries and soak even when 3 are on the lane. If the supports leave you can punish the farmer with denies because backstab makes up for your farm disadvantage. You just have to be careful and not try things when supports could come in unless a creep wave will be showing up for you to blink back to. Your early power spike comes with your ult and level 4 blink so I like to max it by 7 over invis and cloud because it lets you really kill people and then go looking for a few fights. After that phase I look for a spare lane to finish off a diffusal. The ult isn't too good offensively early on unless you had a 1v1 lane or something, but it is effective in team fights as a zoning tool, ok damage, and has good defensive potential to interrupt focus fire. However, a skadi does make the ult pretty terrifying. If his ult hit creeps it would give him too much farming ability I think and if just hero illusions were added it would lead the the hero to become a niche counter pick, which I do not think is particularly good hero design. If I were going to change something to try to make him a little stronger, I would just give him more stats and maybe a little more move speed to help him early. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On April 01 2016 12:48 Gimpb wrote: I've actually been having rather good luck running it out of the offlane in ~3.5k mrr games I think the reason it has been working for me is I am able to place a large burden on the supports. He's hard to keep out of xp range since invis lets you sneak around sentries and soak even when 3 are on the lane. If the supports leave you can punish the farmer with denies because backstab makes up for your farm disadvantage. You just have to be careful and not try things when supports could come in unless a creep wave will be showing up for you to blink back to. Your early power spike comes with your ult and level 4 blink so I like to max it by 7 over invis and cloud because it lets you really kill people and then go looking for a few fights. After that phase I look for a spare lane to finish off a diffusal. The ult isn't too good offensively early on unless you had a 1v1 lane or something, but it is effective in team fights as a zoning tool, ok damage, and has good defensive potential to interrupt focus fire. However, a skadi does make the ult pretty terrifying. If his ult hit creeps it would give him too much farming ability I think and if just hero illusions were added it would lead the the hero to become a niche counter pick, which I do not think is particularly good hero design. If I were going to change something to try to make him a little stronger, I would just give him more stats and maybe a little more move speed to help him early. not to totally shit on your experience, but offlane played well is probably the easiest role to get way more than you should in a 3k game. that's my bracket, and whenever i'm offlane against all but hte most competent supports, i usually do way more than i should as whatever hero i am. | ||
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Gimpb
293 Posts
Frankly, sentry/dust spam and things people think are hard counter picks like bounty/slar/zues are something I see all the time and in my games. My experience is that I rarely find myself in situations where I could last hit much with any hero other than ench/furion/druid and mostly soak in lane. | ||
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
I personally like his ultimate because you can dodge things with it and consequently bait people into their deaths. I had a couple decent games with him yesterday, but you really need to go HAM and snowball so you can get your items or else you're gonna have a bad time against certain heroes. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
you have heroes who are more or less efficient with items, with levels, and with pieces of the map available. riki is one of those super niche derp heroes that looks and feels good when all the right situations occur. you're invis until you attack, get to walk wherever the damn you want, and get to kill basically any hero you spot alone. except you're not slot efficient, die quite easily with an appropriate level of lockdown, which most teams have, and depend on autoattacks from one direction. if bristleback's quills werent stacking or as good as they are now, the hero would serve the other role of tanking damage, with utility in that it's a much wider angle. i can easily see the situation where a TP reaction tries to turn your gank around and turns into a double kill for you. that is, if you are fed pot roast for thanksgiving and that same bad play which allowed you to play so freely and casually all game resulted in easier and easier kills for you--in effect, making kills on the better players on that team easier as well. why doesn't support bristle work? because the hero needs an item or two quite quickly. why does support riki work? because he has a a damn silence, and walks past observer wards like a bounty would. and why does bounty absolutely work? because his kit is built around early game utility in slow, easy damage, needing very little. riki needs levels to achieve anywhere near the same level of damage. everyone seems to forget he's one of the slowest characters in the game. what are you going to build, tranquils and carry clarities? how are you going to afford the boots that you so desperately need? how are you going to deal any damage after the first minutes of the game without levels? pretty easy to answer, you're leeching off a lane with 500/600 life total and sitting there waiting for simple kills to appear, except you need more than BH, except there's no later game if you don't leech off your lanes further, except you are complete food with one good ability to your name: smoke screen.. unnnntil bkb's arrive. it's what every person who runs with their arms swinging behind their backs dreams of. the funny thing is, the item that was basically designed for this hero, sange & yasha is pronounced wrong by the entire dota 2 cast and now most if not all of the community, much like godz and the word "melee". real japanophiles will notice, and this is my time to shine as an educational riki player who gives zero damns about actually playing a viable hero in competitive. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
Any ideas on a sustain item that might fit with this hero? Thinking either drums (HP regen isn't much but better than nothing), tranquils (if playing offlane/roaming riki) or maybe Vanguard into eventual abyssal? | ||
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