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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
So X into Boat is almost a guaranteed hit. I suppose I can do it even for rank 3+ X? Seems like boat then torrent would be more reliable since I don't have to time return X at all, which if I mistimed would mean missing the whole combo. Any pros and cons of torrent-boat vs boat-torrent? Do I get a longer disable time for the former? Also against blinkers/force staff, I should be able to land the combos still right? | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
Make use of the spell visual indicator to land any x torrent combo with return. Cast return when the bubbles start to emerge from the ground. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
Using Ship > Torrent is a little trickier mostly because you have to time the Ship slightly after the X cast and then also time Torrent slightly before Ship hits. There's really no point using return X > Ship > return X since X only lasts 4s and ship hits 3s after cast (thus it's better to just wait the 0.5s before casting ship after X since return X also has a 0.5s cast time). You can do Ship > X and then return X as ship is about to hit though but why give the opponent a chance to react from seeing the Ship cast. Bottom line is combo'ing Torrent > Ship is really easy with a setup (from your own lv 3+ X or a teammates stun or whatever) and that saving X for utility should be done when possible. I suppose you can make an argument that you can take advantage of the full slow duration from Ship > Torrent but it seems to be way more of hassle for not much effect. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I actually find Ship > Torrent almost flawless to pull off since there's no need to return X at all, whereas Torrent > Ship would totally miss if I mistimed the return X, since Torrent wouldn't hit and subsequently Boat too. That said and since some mention that Ship > Torrent has a longer disable time, why would you prefer Torrent > Ship instead? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
 thanks! | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
Is there any reason to pick up something like a battlefury, skadi, satanic? Silver edge also looks mediocre to me. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On June 27 2015 04:33 Fencar wrote: As a mid, what items can you build on this hero? The best I've been able to come up with is wand bottle boots (phase or greedy travels later) always a TP, optional blink/sb, bracer/drums for additional stats and the aura (situational, dont always need it), and stack crits with a BKB and AC as situational items, as well as rapier in desperate situations. Is there any reason to pick up something like a battlefury, skadi, satanic? Silver edge also looks mediocre to me. First item blink or SB. No reason to get silver edge since you don't want to be hitting the target you want to be damaging. Crit after. Then go glass cannon. Optional bkb. You don't need to man fight or tank up because you gain more if RNG crit tidebringer works in your favour. Better to maximise the crit damage. I wouldn't rule out getting cc items like abyssal or hex though. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
Is there any merit to a Midas? Looking at Attacker's games he seems to pick it up sometimes and with Kunkka's relatively slow farming speed it seems reasonable to pick one up around the 8-10 minute mark to get to the point where you have 10-15k of damage items a lot faster/more reliably. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
attacker goes bottle boots bfury blink crits/rapiers pretty much every game i think | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
Anyway, what about skillbuild for this hero? The first couple of times I botched it completely, but now I'm going W-Q-W-E-E-R-E (1-2-0 at 3, 1-2-2-1 at 6 and 3rd point in X at 7). This way I have decent laning with the extra point in Tidebringer and still have 3x+boat at a reasonable time. Is the extra point in tidebringer worth it or is it better to have the 60 damage +1s of slow from torrent and 1-1-3 for boat combos at 6? | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
attackspeeds pretty useless and kunkka has better farming items skills depend on lane but i dont think skill build matters much eg versus sniper max e lets u kill him easily but a lot of the time u can just abuse fog to torrent boat i think 1411 to 1442 is eziest to play tho | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I also think Midas is unnecessary because with damage and tide bringer, farming is easy. But the hero doesn't need items to kill anyway, so it's not that bad. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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aeroblaster
United States422 Posts
On June 27 2015 15:22 Fencar wrote: Why is rank 4 tidebringer so much more important than additional levels in torrent? Between guaranteed on at least on target 60 damage and 1s duration of slow, torrent seems to scale pretty well in fights compared to tidebringer which gives maybe 15 more damage per rank if you can actually hit something. Tidebringer has weird scaling. At level 4 the cleave radius increases from 500 to 600, making it better than any previous level of tidebringer by a bigger margin. It also lowers the cooldown to 4 seconds, meaning every hit you do will basically be a tidebringer hit and therefore increases your damage output even further than the damage scaling would lead you to believe. Compared to torrent with a static cooldown and high mana cost, you should prioritize tidebringer over anything else always. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On June 27 2015 15:22 Fencar wrote: Why is rank 4 tidebringer so much more important than additional levels in torrent? Between guaranteed on at least on target 60 damage and 1s duration of slow, torrent seems to scale pretty well in fights compared to tidebringer which gives maybe 15 more damage per rank if you can actually hit something. That's because Tidebringer is more useful than Torrent. 4s Tidebringer helps a lot with farming, while still contributing damage to your combo. You also want to conserve mana because each gank should involve using your full combo due to the short Boat CD. You could treat Torrent as just a stun. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On June 27 2015 16:07 aeroblaster wrote: Tidebringer has weird scaling. At level 4 the cleave radius increases from 500 to 600, making it better than any previous level of tidebringer by a bigger margin. It also lowers the cooldown to 4 seconds, meaning every hit you do will basically be a tidebringer hit and therefore increases your damage output even further than the damage scaling would lead you to believe. Compared to torrent with a static cooldown and high mana cost, you should prioritize tidebringer over anything else always. Because you don't have the mana to spam torrent combos. It's more important to be able to deal out consistent damage also. | ||
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
I think he is in a rly bad spot right now due to the nature of him beeing a meele hero but with this crazy long initiation/teamfight and inbuild cleave he feels almost impossible to balance. Once ur get some lvls ur ganks are almost impossible to doge, if u know what u are doing, and u can go on a rampage all over the map where noone feels safe anywhere anymore. But u get shit on in midlane by almost every other hero, u have none existend comeback potenial, no sustain and no escape mechanism it is sooo hard to itemize him properly - which is by far my biggest problem with him - Bottle/urn --> SB or Blink isnt enough sustain if not everything goes ur way early and If u go BF u just cripple ur fighting potential it almost always isnt worth it. Played as safelane carry he has too little sustained dmg and tank potential to be worth it + it doesn´t rly fit his skillset and soloofflane is no option at all. So maybe duo off ? Almost never worked in my experience... This hero just feels rly weird to me since a few patches and i have no clue why or how to fix it... Edit : i forgot to mention Support but i feel he needs too much lvl´s, offers no laning presence beside cleave which u wont skill and even his long range initiation is outshined by heros like Tusk etc who can do what he can with less farm and less lvls... | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I think the biggest problem that pub players do with this hero is to not get high ranks of X early, especially when they are having a shit time. If you're forced to offlane with the hero, don't max cleave first or put any points in it. Actually regardless of where you go, rank 3 X should be gotten by level 8. You can do so much stuff with the spell. And if you're doing well as a support levels wise, you can easily solo kill heroes like how support lina does. | ||
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