EPT[Hero] Troll Warlord - Page 17
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On March 24 2015 16:44 Furikawari wrote: Eveything is in the "if"  . As a sniper, if troll can take you by surprise it usually means the game is fucked up (no warding, opponents free farming ur jungle etc.) and almost all heroes could have done the same.That's not necessarily true at all. A smoke gank, or simply out positioning can result in this. | ||
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StarMoon
Canada682 Posts
On March 24 2015 19:52 Kreb wrote: I think supports, and even some cores, needs to put really high emphasis on ghosts and forces against trolls. Beyond stuff like chrono and BH theres like not a single hero that can stand against a troll with BKB running at your team with ulti ready. The attack speed and bashing makes him out-manfight anything. You NEED to kite him. Just as an example: Had a WD the other day rushing Agh (which is like totally standard so I dont blame him at all really) but every fight he'd just die in 2sec when troll came rushing at him with BKB up. We had like a nothing else who could stand against him either so during those 5-10sec troll was litterally making a full 5man team run away all by himself. Had WD he went ghost+force instead he would both been able to survive and help others survive the BKB and ulti duration. After that troll is really not that scary. I'll point out that omnislash handles him pretty neatly after you have lvl 2 ult. Its one of the most dangerous things as troll. Sniper is an interesting interaction. If you can get on top of him, you'll tear his head off (using blink etc), but if you can't he can kite you and be a major pain as you engage his other teammates. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
You just have to initiate on and burst him down in 1 go. Lina with aghs, jakiro with euls, axe with blademail are some really good heroes to initiate/burst him. I find Jakiro being one of the best solo offlaner to deal with troll. Axe is decent but is still forced to go into jungle if supports zone him out early, though axe's blademail is probably the strongest counter to troll midgame. Troll doesn't even give a shit to your +40 armor during call. Strong dual lanes work too, but you have to control his jungle completely after winning the laning phase. Axe support with sniper is one combo i found coincidentally that is really strong. Also basically most combination of viper duolane. These are heroes that are really good against troll in mid game too. | ||
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StarMoon
Canada682 Posts
On March 25 2015 03:43 babysimba wrote: Troll's a bullshit hero because of how strong he is in lane and catch up in jungle, like the pre-nerfed terrorblade. He gives so much freedom to his supports to roam early or catch up farm in lane later. You just have to initiate on and burst him down in 1 go. Lina with aghs, jakiro with euls, axe with blademail are some really good heroes to initiate/burst him. I find Jakiro being one of the best solo offlaner to deal with troll. Axe is decent but is still forced to go into jungle if supports zone him out early, though axe's blademail is probably the strongest counter to troll midgame. Troll doesn't even give a shit to your +40 armor during call. Strong dual lanes work too, but you have to control his jungle completely after winning the laning phase. Axe support with sniper is one combo i found coincidentally that is really strong. Also basically most combination of viper duolane. These are heroes that are really good against troll in mid game too. Mid game, tinker is absolute hell to deal with as troll. He can perma blind you, and render you useless and also deal lots of magical damage (burst) to you. Yes, you get a bkb and can ignore this for a few seconds, but unless someone can get rid of the tinker he immediately starts screwing you over once your bkb wears out. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
He's not as broken as people believe he is; the main reason why he's so absurd right now is because he is one of the few strong scaling carries that also has absurd laning presence (easily one of the strongest laning carries in the game, and has ridiculous kill potential at even just level 2), he has an ultimate that greatly increases the overall damage output of his team (making him incredibly strong when paired up with a 2nd core mid that relies on auto attacks), and his ability to Roshan quickly makes him a very flavor pick in pubs (since disorganized pubs don't realize Troll can be doing Roshan at any time). He is however highly susceptible to CC, more so then alot of other late game carries because he has no innate gap closers, and his defense is purely based on what items he has (and blind which I totally agree is absolutely absurd). Alot of his game is based on his ability to snowball and get out of control quickly; if you keep him in check early on by playing aggressive and forcing him to expend his mana (since his mana pool is absolutely atrocious) early in lane, you can actually make life very difficult for him. Strong initiation and CC is the best counter to him, which you could say for alot of other heroes, but Troll in fact struggles badly against strong initiation and CC, while other heroes that are strong late like Dusa, Spectre, PL, etc. don't mind CC as much as he does (if he's not hitting shit he's dying pretty fast). So yeah, he's pretty absurd in pubs because most supports don't buy shit like Forcestaff, Ghost Scepter, Euls, etc. to kite Troll, nor do people pick shit that just wrecks him upside down like Beastmaster, Bane, blah blah blah. In competitive play though, he's much weaker than people think. iG nearly lost with a super stacked Troll Warlord because Empire had a crazy amount of CC for him; it's just that Empire basically threw the game down the drain with some critical key mistakes. He's a little too good in public play because it simply requires a coordinated effort to shut him down (far more coordinated then your prototypical standard pub coordination), but he's actually not quite as good as people think. Gonna be real sad days when they neuter him though. | ||
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deadmau
960 Posts
And no Troll is not as OP as people believe, it's just like 6.81 where everyone thought void/push was OP, or that comebacks were not possible and games ended too early for them to be possible. Those same people now can't deal with games going so late...go figure and want concede option. Doesn't really matter when they nerf him, a new hero that is "impossible do deal with" will arise from his ashes and the whining continues. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On March 27 2015 16:26 DucK- wrote: Troll is a good hero, but not op. He's overpowered in public games in the sense that he punishes players so heavily for making very minor mistakes. Said minor mistakes don't happen in competitive play, so Troll in fact appears much weaker in competitive play than he does in public play. But he is a not fun hero to play against if you don't know how to properly kite and play to suppress his midgame tempo. For example, one fight mean Troll gets at least one, if not two towers. If he's in position, his team can do Roshan right away if they win one fight (at a much earlier time then other fast Roshan heroes can also). He's abit too strong in pubs, but it's going to be hard to balance him there when in all reality he gets absolutely neutered by heroes that can either kite him, or who can CC him through BKB. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On March 27 2015 20:07 superstartran wrote: He's overpowered in public games in the sense that he punishes players so heavily for making very minor mistakes. Said minor mistakes don't happen in competitive play, so Troll in fact appears much weaker in competitive play than he does in public play. But he is a not fun hero to play against if you don't know how to properly kite and play to suppress his midgame tempo. For example, one fight mean Troll gets at least one, if not two towers. If he's in position, his team can do Roshan right away if they win one fight (at a much earlier time then other fast Roshan heroes can also). He's abit too strong in pubs, but it's going to be hard to balance him there when in all reality he gets absolutely neutered by heroes that can either kite him, or who can CC him through BKB. I think that's more of being good than op. There are always ways to deal with troll regardless of team composition. Can't say the same of slark/ta/naga/pl. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On March 27 2015 21:55 DucK- wrote: I think that's more of being good than op. There are always ways to deal with troll regardless of team composition. Can't say the same of slark/ta/naga/pl. I dunno about that. once he gets 1 item + BKB he's pretty strong. I think with the changes to max attack speed and how the gold mechanics of this patch work, he greatly benefits from mistakes bc he's a really strong hero. windranger is really strong bc of the attack speed max as well. they just blow things up. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 25 2015 02:55 StarMoon wrote: I'll point out that omnislash handles him pretty neatly after you have lvl 2 ult. Its one of the most dangerous things as troll. Sniper is an interesting interaction. If you can get on top of him, you'll tear his head off (using blink etc), but if you can't he can kite you and be a major pain as you engage his other teammates. If you blind a jugg before he omni's does he miss his auto attacks during the omni? | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On March 28 2015 00:39 babysimba wrote: I would assume yes, since i survived before a full aga omni as windrunner windrunning thats not a blind thats evasion | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
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TheWestWind
Canada87 Posts
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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