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I don't like the madness. A yasha for a comparable price increases your farm rate, improves your capacity to get kills with your ult, builds into a core item that you can situationally adapt to build as your first major item, improves your surviveability with movement speed and armour, has direct synergy with your kit (illusions), and doesn't remove your biggest early saving grace (dispersion damage reflect).
Madness interrupts your build, takes up an item slot you don't really have on a hero who gets a lot out of small early items, and just doesn't offer enough for the sacrifices you make to build it. Furthermore using it every cd to farm is a non-negligible increase in mana consumption, a handicap early spectre is already hampered with.
Building madness when your team cannot possibly fight is madness, as in those scenarios you either need to passively complete a radiance or need to abandon it in favour of manta or diffusal, as is appropriate. The point of a madness is it's an item that both increases farm rate and fighting capacity through the increased chasing power and ias. The reason it's potentially viable on spectre is because she isn't as hard hit by the damage amplification thanks to dispersion, but removing the reflect means she needs more hp which you normally wouldn't want to build yet.
Furthermore you don't get as big an increase in dps as with other heroes who build madness because 1. you have to chase to get your kills, unlike a sniper who shoots from range and has a powerful slow on-hit, or jugg who is invulnerable during ult, or bashing heroes who bash their targets to keep them from running, which means your vulnerability to being controlled can limit your capacity to fully utilize the increased ias; then 2. your on-hit damage can be removed by your targets hugging their creeps or teammates. Basically if you can guarantee to hit them with desolate repeatedly they're either already going to die or you picked the wrong fucking target to begin with. If you aren't getting desolate procs even if they're standing still your pathetic damage isn't going to feel better with just the attack speed increase.
I also strongly disagree with the Urn people have mentioned. It provides vastly inferior stats and utility compared to a ring of aquila. If you're doing well and getting kills with your ult you don't really need the urn charge hp regen, as whatever regen in and between fights your team can't cover are remedied by fountain trips, which don't hamper your pitiful farm rate much. The mana regen of a sage mask falls very short of covering her mana needs. The strength it provides isn't worth the trade-off in dps and armour aquila provides. Lastly, if the offensive capacity of an urn makes the difference between getting a kill and letting him get away, you probably misused your ult. Getting the charges requires already being able to get kills or at least merely survive fights, but if it's the former you don't need the urn at all, and if it's the latter you're probably better served either farming more or using your ult better.
With the stats, armour, dps, and damage block from poor man's shield, aquila, and yasha (I don't claim the yasha is necessary, but over a lot of games I've never been disappointed by having it, and have always regretted skipping it when I thought I could get a really fast radiance by skipping it (I was wrong every time, or at least not right to a sufficient margin)) you can sustain jungling for the duration of your ult cd at about as good a rate as you can hope to achieve prior to radiance while retaining high combat effectiveness as well (which is more important on her-- I would rather be able to fight and suck at farming than rock at farming and be unable to fight, since you don't come online early enough or provide enough pressure once you hit radiance (like a naga or sylla) to make up for your initial uselessness; and furthermore if you can't fight with your team you're probably completely losing map control, making farming impossible anyway).
Pretty much you need to earn the space to farm your radiance, unless despite the horribly weak lanes your spectre pick gave your team your mid and offlane are both already snowballing on their own (and even then in that scenario picking on you is probably the only thing the enemy team can do, which will punish you if you're not equipped or prepared to fight prior to radiance).
So to clarify, the progression I swear by in the vast majority of games is quelling (you'll hang on to it for a long time), poor man's shield, phase boots or treads, ring of aquila, band of elvenskin (filling your last slot after tp), yasha, relic (replaces pms), radiance, manta. In most games all adaptations come after that point, though in some games it makes sense to either go manta before radiance (if everything sucks and diffusal isn't obviously perfect vs their team), and in some games diffusal manta instead of (or before) radiance makes sense based on the enemy team's heroes.
I have exclusively used phase boots until recently, and had been using them since the original inception of phase drum spectre (don't make drum now) to great success. Recently I started trying out treads and am not sure yet if one is obviously better than the other. The change in quelling blade I think makes phase boots less attractive now than before, but I imagine the choice will remain situational rather than one being objectively better. I'm still working on figuring that out.
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Poor mans dota.... I still believe that if you aim for a radiance+refresher-build, an atos synergizes very well in pubs (no matter how you get to the desired items below, boots which one you prefer). Having every skill and item twice in an early fight and having enough manapool to execute that combo perfectly is just really satisfying (and its pretty noob friendly).
![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/R5QN6.jpg)
130 == Spectral dagger
130 == Spectral dagger
150 == Haunt
150 == Haunt
..50 == Atos cripple
..50 == Atos cripple
375 == Refresher
------- +
1035 Manapool needed (1095 mana available).
+ Show Spoiler [devilisk screengrab] +
In a general game i think AC+Abyssal to get 6-slotted would fit nicely.
Most semi pro's don’t like it that much iirc, but whatever.
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u can just tp back to fountain b4 u haunt
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don’t use spectral dagger to flashfarm;)
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No, don't build Atos on Spectre ever, please. She does not need the intelligence, she doesn't need the slow, and she doesn't need the hp that early: hp is secondary in priority to other assets (farm rate and/or dps come first), and there are far better hp sources than Atos. The item offers nothing.
Secondly, regarding refresher: I only build it as a game-ending item if I've snowballed out of control and can afford diffusal2 and refresher by the 30 minute mark. You can hang on to 1 for the charges if you actually need them before upgrading. At 30 minutes, the damage from 14s of radiance burn and manaburn on their entire team forces them to back to heal, which gives you a free t3 and rax if nothing else. Usually you'll kill their supports outright since they lack bkb, unless they anticipate the refresher and immediately tp fountain before the second ult. Don't let them see the build-up. If you're trying to hit a specific timing and are snowballing you could skip manta (I'd keep the yasha though) to get it sooner if you know they don't have any capacity to survive the magic damage onslaught.
Remember that almost all of Spectre's damage for most of the game is magical or pure, and thus is blocked by bkb (I don't actually know why manaburn is blocked by bkb, as it's physical damage, but the point is bkb shuts down your damage, which can negate your ult entirely on targets you aren't personally chasing). Therefore it makes no sense to blindly get refresher, especially when it's not hitting that specific timing window. If by the time you get refresher the enemy team has bkbs or a pipe or glimmer capes, etc, you're losing most if not all the damage that 5k item provides. If you went straight Radiance Refresher that 5k is a manta or heart. If you already have manta diffusal then that's either your heart or bfly.
The refresher gives you a weak first 6-slot (should be phase/treads radiance manta diffusal2 refresher and either heart or bfly following the refresher), so if you can't end the game on completion of the item or very rapidly get a healthy return on your investment you're actually giving the enemy carry a chance to stay in the game and catch up. Remember their carry doesn't need to be able to 1v1 you to stay in game, he just has to be able to kill your team and survive you. Many carries already build bkb as part of their normal item progression, which stops most of your damage.
In a vacuum your first 6slot should be treads/phase radiance manta heart bfly abyssal. It doesn't make sense to build refresher and not have the diffusal blade, since refresher only effects your ult's damage, and grabbing mana burn maximizes your ult's damage, so you lose 2 item slots in your first 6slot by running the refresher build.
You should absolutely be using Dagger to farm. Flashfarming isn't a thing on Spectre, but maximizing your farm rate at every given time in the game is a thing on all carries. Even if you lose some of the gold on TP scrolls for fountain trips prior to ults by not strictly conserving your mana you gain a lot more xp in exchange, which as you level translates to a faster farm rate and higher combat effectiveness.
Also remember that even if you do choose to conserve your mana rather than pay for the means to sustain mana usage outside of fights, one important tactic with spectre is at certain points in the game deliberately die first in a teamfight to deal damage with dispersion and whatever else you have without your ult, to buy-back and wreck the enemy with your ult. The same tactic can be employed with a refresher from your fountain following a buy-back, guaranteeing you have more than enough mana for the double ult. I would recommend against an ult death buyback refresh ult, since the point of the refresher is that initial massive hp deficit you inflict on their entire team, but in some scenario where you for some reason are carrying enough gold to buy refresher (or have it already sitting in stash) and to buy-back maybe it makes sense as a surprise-clean-up.
I really don't understand the dual tactics of trying to not use your spells to farm, and then building high-int items for the purpose of being able to blow your mana on the field to avoid using the fountain for 100 gold. If you're building regen/int items it should be to accelerate your farm by allowing you to use your spells more often. By both avoiding farming with dagger and wasting gold on a useless item (for spectre) like Atos, you're going out of your way to minimize your farm rate, which is objectively a bad idea in dota in general, especially on a hard carry like spectre.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On July 08 2015 07:08 govie wrote:Poor mans dota.... I still believe that if you aim for a radiance+refresher-build, an atos synergizes very well in pubs (no matter how you get to the desired items below, boots which one you prefer). Having every skill and item twice in an early fight and having enough manapool to execute that combo perfectly is just really satisfying (and its pretty noob friendly). 130 == Spectral dagger 130 == Spectral dagger 150 == Haunt 150 == Haunt ..50 == Atos cripple ..50 == Atos cripple 375 == Refresher ------- + 1035 Manapool needed (1095 mana available). + Show Spoiler [devilisk screengrab] +In a general game i think AC+Abyssal to get 6-slotted would fit nicely. Most semi pro's don’t like it that much iirc, but whatever.
They don't like it bc your illusions deal like no dmg. Simply daggering your target is more than sufficient. Spend that money on something else that benefits your illusions when you haunt.
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@Nightmarjoo
mom vs yasha are not comparable you need a form of regen for spectre almost every game, options being urn, roh(vang/casual roh for rfo), mask of death(typically into mom) - choose one.
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I already explained why that's not true. You don't need hp regen-- armour from early agility items and damage block from pms and damage reflection from dispersion are enough to allow you to jungle between ults. All the hp regen you need comes from tping to fountain right before you ult.
The only time this isn't true is if you're getting hunted hard by extremely strong solo gankers (usually invis heroes like bh or riki, and only if they're already fed). And the answer there is grouping and not farming alone, not wasting money on an item just for the sake of feeling more comfortable with hp regen that you don't need.
In rare scenarios you may need to buy a vanguard to survive at all, whether you're alone or not (vs high burst heroes, such as very fed tinkers or very fed storms or very fed qops, etc-- heroes you can't just dagger through the trees away from, or who burst you during orchid before you can dagger or ult away). Even in these scenarios you're not going vanguard first item (I would stay the progression I mentioned before through yasha), and you certainly are not building madness.
I didn't say the items were comparable except in price: the yasha is simply superior for the reasons I have already explained.
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uh refresher is one of the strongest initial 6slot items
for the vast majority of supports they need to blow spells and/or item cooldowns just to live through double haunt, and by then the teamfight is pretty much won
also manta refresher is generally stronger than diffusal refresher, because u can pick someone and just kill them during the second haunt while their entire team is forced to run around
in fact imo diffusals an awful item most of the time, unless u really need to purge something in particular (like morph illu or something)
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On July 08 2015 11:18 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2015 07:08 govie wrote:Poor mans dota.... I still believe that if you aim for a radiance+refresher-build, an atos synergizes very well in pubs (no matter how you get to the desired items below, boots which one you prefer). Having every skill and item twice in an early fight and having enough manapool to execute that combo perfectly is just really satisfying (and its pretty noob friendly). 130 == Spectral dagger 130 == Spectral dagger 150 == Haunt 150 == Haunt ..50 == Atos cripple ..50 == Atos cripple 375 == Refresher ------- + 1035 Manapool needed (1095 mana available). + Show Spoiler [devilisk screengrab] +In a general game i think AC+Abyssal to get 6-slotted would fit nicely. Most semi pro's don’t like it that much iirc, but whatever. They don't like it bc your illusions deal like no dmg. Simply daggering your target is more than sufficient. Spend that money on something else that benefits your illusions when you haunt.
Yes, most go for expensive stat-items on a hero which haunt-illusions only do 30% damage. When spectre hits for 100 damage, illusions only do 30 damage. Desolate only counts if a hero is alone so that seems less reliable around mid/lategame. It takes a long time before spectre becomes really scary this way. Don’t get me wrong, I like that pro-build, but it takes me alot longer to farm all those items and become scary (my individual skill is alot lower).
I choose to invest in enough EHP so that the illusions can last two full duration haunts at an early timing and let the radiance and maybe desolate go to work, twice. I have tried to build spectre with manta refresher radiance + other items, but then spectre still does not have enough manapool to use everything twice. Besides that, the surprise refresher timing will be later if you choose to go a more expensive route. For me, it's a trade off, gaining an extra timing earlier with a 3k gold investment. Gold-efficiency wise its not that great, timingwise it is very nice. I try to create an acceptable Return of Investment or win the game with the cheap triple-item-combo.
E: Granting your team 12 second 17% evasion instead of only 6 seconds is nice too. But it's hard for me to quantify the impact of that. Against a drow- or minusarmour strategy it should prove usefull.
On July 08 2015 09:27 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I really don't understand the dual tactics of trying to not use your spells to farm, and then building high-int items for the purpose of being able to blow your mana on the field to avoid using the fountain for 100 gold.
You made me laugh with the above sentence As i see it, once you have that 15.5k gold triple-item combo, the threat of the double haunt must be present at all times. Before that timing, you can use the mana anyway you find appropriate.
All your other arguments are debatable from my point of view. Like, if my early refresher baits a couple of 10 second bkb's charges, i probably won the game just by favouring an earlier refresher build. The lower the bkb charges get, the more impactfull rod of atos becomes (besides al the stats). Just for fun: maybe we should calculate the difference in damage output & input in a 5v5 teamfight between my 15.5k and your 15.5k or 20k gold-timing (without a refresher), that could provide some insight (for me atleast). As a melee hero i find it hard to actually initiate some rightclicks, atos' 1200 ranged instant cripple solves that problem to some degree. I think almost all itembuilds have merit, i just like mine to be more impactfull earlier.
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I'll give it a go and try to calculate the difference in damage dealt
Your 15.425 gold build : PT's + Radiance + Manta + Diffusal lvl2
Mine 15.400 gold build : PT's + Radiance + Atos + Refresher
+ Show Spoiler +Burndamage : 50 * 5 hero's * 7 seconds = 1750 damage
Hero rightclick damage is about equal.
Your rightclick statdamage = 162 @ a/s 1.66
My rightclick statdamage = 100 @ a/s 1.21
Your haunt rightclick damage = (48,3 + 25) * 1.66 * 7 seconds * 4 hero's = 3407 haunt rightclick damage
My haunt rightclick damage = 30 * 1.21 * 7 seconds * 4 hero's= 1016 haunt rightclick damage
Total damage dealt by your build : 3407 + 1750 = 5157 damage
Total damage dealt by my build : 1016 + 1750 +1750 = 4516 damage
Difference should be about 540 damage.
Your damage output seems to be slightly higher, not gamebreaking but it surprised me to say the least. The question that’s left seems to be if you want a double haunt+evasion+dagger+1200 ranged slow or a single dispel+dagger+haunt+600 ranged purge and the build-up that goes with both.
Interesting... I lost a couple of games where i snowballed pretty hard until the 15k mark, but wasn’t strong enough to stop the enemy from going highground. That’s why I initially changed from something like your itembuild, to the atos+resfresher build. Having more haunts seemed logical for coping with the timings i faced (against broken troll etcetc), i dont like losing games when i go 10-0-10 on spectre. Allways having a haunt up feels a bit similar to having magnus' RP up, it deters alot without even using it. I used it as a different approach to get 6-slotted. I still like the itemcombo, maybe it isn’t allways the most optimal itembuild, but with double ultimate i can misuse a haunt without losing the game.
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Also remember that if the heroes are close enough to not get multiple radiances on them, the proportional difference of the diffusal build will increase (it'll still be 540, but it'll be from a lower base line).
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On July 08 2015 22:26 Gowerly wrote:
Also remember that if the heroes are close enough to not get multiple radiances on them, the proportional difference of the diffusal build will increase (it'll still be 540, but it'll be from a lower base line).
if they have some mana leftovers
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SoCal8910 Posts
On July 08 2015 17:53 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2015 11:18 BluemoonSC wrote:On July 08 2015 07:08 govie wrote:Poor mans dota.... I still believe that if you aim for a radiance+refresher-build, an atos synergizes very well in pubs (no matter how you get to the desired items below, boots which one you prefer). Having every skill and item twice in an early fight and having enough manapool to execute that combo perfectly is just really satisfying (and its pretty noob friendly). 130 == Spectral dagger 130 == Spectral dagger 150 == Haunt 150 == Haunt ..50 == Atos cripple ..50 == Atos cripple 375 == Refresher ------- + 1035 Manapool needed (1095 mana available). + Show Spoiler [devilisk screengrab] +In a general game i think AC+Abyssal to get 6-slotted would fit nicely. Most semi pro's don’t like it that much iirc, but whatever. They don't like it bc your illusions deal like no dmg. Simply daggering your target is more than sufficient. Spend that money on something else that benefits your illusions when you haunt. Yes, most go for expensive stat-items on a hero which haunt-illusions only do 30% damage. When spectre hits for 100 damage, illusions only do 30 damage. Desolate only counts if a hero is alone so that seems less reliable around mid/lategame. It takes a long time before spectre becomes really scary this way. Don’t get me wrong, I like that pro-build, but it takes me alot longer to farm all those items and become scary (my individual skill is alot lower). I choose to invest in enough EHP so that the illusions can last two full duration haunts at an early timing and let the radiance and maybe desolate go to work, twice. I have tried to build spectre with manta refresher radiance + other items, but then spectre still does not have enough manapool to use everything twice. Besides that, the surprise refresher timing will be later if you choose to go a more expensive route. For me, it's a trade off, gaining an extra timing earlier with a 3k gold investment. Gold-efficiency wise its not that great, timingwise it is very nice. I try to create an acceptable Return of Investment or win the game with the cheap triple-item-combo. E: Granting your team 12 second 17% evasion instead of only 6 seconds is nice too. But it's hard for me to quantify the impact of that. Against a drow- or minusarmour strategy it should prove usefull. Show nested quote +On July 08 2015 09:27 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I really don't understand the dual tactics of trying to not use your spells to farm, and then building high-int items for the purpose of being able to blow your mana on the field to avoid using the fountain for 100 gold. You made me laugh with the above sentence As i see it, once you have that 15.5k gold triple-item combo, the threat of the double haunt must be present at all times. Before that timing, you can use the mana anyway you find appropriate. All your other arguments are debatable from my point of view. Like, if my early refresher baits a couple of 10 second bkb's charges, i probably won the game just by favouring an earlier refresher build. The lower the bkb charges get, the more impactfull rod of atos becomes (besides al the stats). Just for fun: maybe we should calculate the difference in damage output & input in a 5v5 teamfight between my 15.5k and your 15.5k or 20k gold-timing (without a refresher), that could provide some insight (for me atleast). As a melee hero i find it hard to actually initiate some rightclicks, atos' 1200 ranged instant cripple solves that problem to some degree. I think almost all itembuilds have merit, i just like mine to be more impactfull earlier.
i mean if you're going radiance into atos of course it will take you longer to farm because you're not picking up a yasha which allows you to do more damage and move faster between creeps.
im glad you did the math because 500 dmg is a pretty significant deal especially when you didnt take into account desolate (which has only a 325 radius..that's pretty small!)
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On July 08 2015 23:59 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2015 17:53 govie wrote:On July 08 2015 11:18 BluemoonSC wrote:On July 08 2015 07:08 govie wrote:Poor mans dota.... I still believe that if you aim for a radiance+refresher-build, an atos synergizes very well in pubs (no matter how you get to the desired items below, boots which one you prefer). Having every skill and item twice in an early fight and having enough manapool to execute that combo perfectly is just really satisfying (and its pretty noob friendly). 130 == Spectral dagger 130 == Spectral dagger 150 == Haunt 150 == Haunt ..50 == Atos cripple ..50 == Atos cripple 375 == Refresher ------- + 1035 Manapool needed (1095 mana available). + Show Spoiler [devilisk screengrab] +In a general game i think AC+Abyssal to get 6-slotted would fit nicely. Most semi pro's don’t like it that much iirc, but whatever. They don't like it bc your illusions deal like no dmg. Simply daggering your target is more than sufficient. Spend that money on something else that benefits your illusions when you haunt. Yes, most go for expensive stat-items on a hero which haunt-illusions only do 30% damage. When spectre hits for 100 damage, illusions only do 30 damage. Desolate only counts if a hero is alone so that seems less reliable around mid/lategame. It takes a long time before spectre becomes really scary this way. Don’t get me wrong, I like that pro-build, but it takes me alot longer to farm all those items and become scary (my individual skill is alot lower). I choose to invest in enough EHP so that the illusions can last two full duration haunts at an early timing and let the radiance and maybe desolate go to work, twice. I have tried to build spectre with manta refresher radiance + other items, but then spectre still does not have enough manapool to use everything twice. Besides that, the surprise refresher timing will be later if you choose to go a more expensive route. For me, it's a trade off, gaining an extra timing earlier with a 3k gold investment. Gold-efficiency wise its not that great, timingwise it is very nice. I try to create an acceptable Return of Investment or win the game with the cheap triple-item-combo. E: Granting your team 12 second 17% evasion instead of only 6 seconds is nice too. But it's hard for me to quantify the impact of that. Against a drow- or minusarmour strategy it should prove usefull. On July 08 2015 09:27 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I really don't understand the dual tactics of trying to not use your spells to farm, and then building high-int items for the purpose of being able to blow your mana on the field to avoid using the fountain for 100 gold. You made me laugh with the above sentence As i see it, once you have that 15.5k gold triple-item combo, the threat of the double haunt must be present at all times. Before that timing, you can use the mana anyway you find appropriate. All your other arguments are debatable from my point of view. Like, if my early refresher baits a couple of 10 second bkb's charges, i probably won the game just by favouring an earlier refresher build. The lower the bkb charges get, the more impactfull rod of atos becomes (besides al the stats). Just for fun: maybe we should calculate the difference in damage output & input in a 5v5 teamfight between my 15.5k and your 15.5k or 20k gold-timing (without a refresher), that could provide some insight (for me atleast). As a melee hero i find it hard to actually initiate some rightclicks, atos' 1200 ranged instant cripple solves that problem to some degree. I think almost all itembuilds have merit, i just like mine to be more impactfull earlier. i mean if you're going radiance into atos of course it will take you longer to farm because you're not picking up a yasha which allows you to do more damage and move faster between creeps. im glad you did the math because 500 dmg is a pretty significant deal especially when you didnt take into account desolate (which has only a 325 radius..that's pretty small!)
I didn’t count the damage dealt by illusions, desolate or spectre during the second haunt, because we don’t know how many hero's will be alive after the first haunt. That is harder to calculate, so, I left anything out that would favour my itembuild. If my calculations are correct then I assume that the damage dealt is pretty similar in theory, but varies more from fight to fight. After doing these calculations, i conclude that the choice between both itembuilds is more about the skills and actives and less about the damage. Lategame you will have alot of similar items anyway if not exactly the same. The refresher-build is more forgiving and lets you use haunt about 10 more times in an average game when it counts, midgame into lategame. The statbuilds seem more gold and damage efficient, but you have to be a bit more careful when you haunt during the mid/late game (playing spectre without a haunt in a teamfight isn’t pleasant).
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On July 08 2015 22:26 Gowerly wrote:
Also remember that if the heroes are close enough to not get multiple radiances on them, the proportional difference of the diffusal build will increase (it'll still be 540, but it'll be from a lower base line).
You mean desolates?
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No I mean diffusals.
Illusions still proc the mana burn (assuming there is mana to burn), but the radiances don't overlap.
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United States2186 Posts
This is an example of trying to be original just to be original except you pay a heavy price in efficacy, so in the end its just silly. I say this specifically against the Atos, which is frankly atrocious in so many ways and isn't worthy to being talked about. Radi -> Manta -> Diffusal also isn't a build unless you're already so far ahead it doesn't matter in which case who cares. In a normal, undecided game you need the heart as item #3 since Spectre really needs to stay durable in fights and outlast their bkbs.
Manta second seems pretty set in stone these days as Spectre ends up in a lot of 1v1 situations in fights, which is where manta really shines. Tripling your desolate damage on a key hero or two is not trivial.
Refresher is situational but definitely can be good against squishier heroes who are reliant on blinks or a team heavily reliant on global silence. A fast refresher after radi yasha or manta also can really bury them if you're ahead. You definitely don't need to diffusal for it either - manta and heart are still a much higher priority. Max mana is surprisingly not that big of a problem with refresher because in most situations you will be able to tp home after your first haunt and then get the mana to refresh second haunt -> reality in -> manta.
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You don't like it, fine. Just don't make false statements about why I posted it or why I played the build. 
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Wouldn't Diffusal be more impactful for early fighting? And if you needed mana for RFO why wouldn't you just build a point booster which you can build into a Skadi later?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/CSdGJ.jpg)
