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On November 17 2012 09:18 valheru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 18:19 TheYango wrote:On November 16 2012 16:57 Irratonalys wrote:
Ive been playing a lot of vengeful spirit lately , and i build tranquil & soul ring first then disassemble into power threads + mekansem, what item should i buy next? Ive experimented with the shadow blade to have a getaway after a risky netherswap (also its not too expensive) , but a lot of guides suggest manta style? Don't get Mek on VS. A lot of fights are going to start with you swapping either an ally or an enemy putting yourself into the fray, meaning you will die relatively fast. A Mek is better on a defensive support who can maximize its overall effectiveness for the team, rather than an offensive support who will put themselves into a Mek-or-die situation. You don't need Soul Ring. Manage mana better and get into the habit of sending Clarities to yourself between ganks/fights. Typical development is Tranquil/Phase+Urn+Wand. If a ganker is already getting Urn, Medallion is also a nice item selection, though you will generally need to buy a Bracer alongside it to buffer your HP a bit. After that typically you prop up your survivability with some combination of Point/Vit Booster, Cloak, Ghost Scepter, and/or Bracer/Janggo. In a long game, Diffusal, Manta, and Aghanim's are suitable lategame item choices. About the mek thing. Yeah generally you see mek on the people that stay back like kotl/jakiro/chen etc and I understand the reasoning, they can mek the team not die and still be useful. But what about the exceptions like necrolyte? Why does a frontline high farmer get mek?
Because Necrolyte is going to be a lot tankier than VS because of his healing skill + building tankier items, and will be in the fight longer to get his Mek off, whereas sometimes VS will die before she can even use the Mek at the appropriate time.
Also it's kind of a symbiotic thing with his healing spell. His healing spell keeps him alive to use Mek when needed, and Mek keeps him alive to keep using his healing spell even more.
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On November 16 2012 18:12 LAN-f34r wrote:
Is there a reason for the cooldown on slark's passive? With max attack speed its 0.34 seconds between attacks, which is slower than level 3/4 cooldown, and level 1/2 cooldown only matters at 325/386 IAS respectively - nigh impossible for that stage of the game.
Mask of Madness!!!
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MoM is 100 IAS. You still need 225/286 IAS from other stuff. At level 11, which is where this is most likely to happen (presuming you do take your passive whenever you can after the other ones), you have ~30 base agi. Lets say you have treads on agi as well as a couple of wraith bands with your MoM. That's 30(agi)+38(treads)+6*2(wraiths) = 80. You need to steal ~145 agi to start effecting the cd. That is ~49 attacks with a 15 second cooldown. Yea... not happening. Even with level 22, maxing steal last, you need ~110 agi from other sources. That's approx a butterfly and an AC, or a few stacks and lesser items. Realistic for that stage of the game, but hardly a build to be feared enough to be nerfed.
And then the cd decreasing from level 3-->4 makes no sence at all.
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On November 17 2012 15:00 LAN-f34r wrote:
MoM is 100 IAS. You still need 225/286 IAS from other stuff. At level 11, which is where this is most likely to happen (presuming you do take your passive whenever you can after the other ones), you have ~30 base agi. Lets say you have treads on agi as well as a couple of wraith bands with your MoM. That's 30(agi)+38(treads)+6*2(wraiths) = 80. You need to steal ~145 agi to start effecting the cd. That is ~49 attacks with a 15 second cooldown. Yea... not happening. Even with level 22, maxing steal last, you need ~110 agi from other sources. That's approx a butterfly and an AC, or a few stacks and lesser items. Realistic for that stage of the game, but hardly a build to be feared enough to be nerfed.
And then the cd decreasing from level 3-->4 makes no sence at all.
Alacrity, bloodlust, troll ultimate, neutral cent aura, bm aura.
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And if you get all that for a slark, its not that hard to put an extra 2 points in the steal (if you have all that you probably want it maxed anyway for max duration). Besides, at that stage of the game if you are attacking that fast you will probably kill them in 2 seconds anyway. Not to mention you probably need stun/immobilises to be able to attack that fast since in reality, they will be running away (Even moving around in leash would be enough to avoid some attacks).
And that still doesn't explain the cooldown on the level 3/4 passive.
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Wouldn't building slark like riki be a good idea ? diffu into bkb seems kinda good to me
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On November 17 2012 18:17 LAN-f34r wrote:
And if you get all that for a slark, its not that hard to put an extra 2 points in the steal (if you have all that you probably want it maxed anyway for max duration). Besides, at that stage of the game if you are attacking that fast you will probably kill them in 2 seconds anyway. Not to mention you probably need stun/immobilises to be able to attack that fast since in reality, they will be running away (Even moving around in leash would be enough to avoid some attacks).
And that still doesn't explain the cooldown on the level 3/4 passive.
My main point is that "and level 1/2 cooldown only matters at 325/386 IAS respectively - nigh impossible for that stage of the game" doesn't hold true in some scenarios, because you really don't want to put more than 1 in steal before 12. But you're right in that the effects of the cd reduction on his passive are marginal.
On November 17 2012 18:27 Erasme wrote:
Wouldn't building slark like riki be a good idea ? diffu into bkb seems kinda good to me
Riki uses diffu because you need the purge to trap people in cloud, and the agi works wonders for his passive. Slark already has pounce to stay on his opponent, and doesn't benefit from agi as much. If you want to go in that direction I think orchids makes more sense, as it would prevent people escaping pounce, and the amplify would help with the damage of your pounce/pact combo. This is assuming that you don't desperately need the purge from diffusal.
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Nigh impossible - not impossible. It just seems really, really odd to have this cooldown.
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The CD is probably to prevent some abuses, maybe the steal happens before the real attack and you can animation cancel to steal a lot, email icefrog and ask!
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On November 17 2012 19:47 Qbek wrote:
The CD is probably to prevent some abuses, maybe the steal happens before the real attack and you can animation cancel to steal a lot, email icefrog and ask!
This makes it sound like it was implemented due to Dota 1 limitations, and perhaps it's here in Dota 2 simply to keep the two as similar as possible.
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not a strategy question, but can you ignore players? like /ignore. Sick and tired of the whiners
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On November 17 2012 23:10 TOCHMY wrote:
not a strategy question, but can you ignore players? like /ignore. Sick and tired of the whiners
Go to the score board => click the speaker icon. It mutes chat and voice chat. Dunno what it is bound to as default
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Do you guys think vanguard is a good item on magnus? Instead of maybe drums? I tried this today and I kinda liked it, because it gives you the survivability you need when using skewer. But none of the guides seem to feature it, so I would like to hear your oppinion 
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On November 17 2012 23:45 StoRm_res wrote:Do you guys think vanguard is a good item on magnus? Instead of maybe drums? I tried this today and I kinda liked it, because it gives you the survivability you need when using skewer. But none of the guides seem to feature it, so I would like to hear your oppinion
When you use skewer, either to initiate or pull 1 enemy out, the first thing you got hit should be by spells, not physical attack (provided that enemies not just stay there and autoattack you), so I doubt vanguard can block that. Vanguard rarely is a good item on initiators overall. Drum is a better choice between it and vanguard.
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any ideas on clinks items after ive build power threads ? must suggestions ive read have been orchid of malevolence , but i thing this item doesent give me enough for its high price. im thinking manta style?
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Get the orchid its amazing on clinks, far better than manta.
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no orchid is fine
clinkz isnt your standard carry that holds his position and right clicks things down
once you get your first big item youre supposed to roam around and snipe people down
orchid allows this since it gives you some dmg and the all important silence
the mana regen is nice too since youll be spamming fire arrows and death pact
if you still dont like orchid, you could go soul ring mkb. More dmg output but harder to kill guys cause they dont have to just sit there
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I was talking to some steam friends yesterday and one was saying that he began getting Mek on semi-carries lately, what are thoughts on this? I always looked at Mek as like, a first support item for heroes such as Lich or something. I never really thought to get it on heroes like Kunkka, Undying, Centaur. Said he even likes getting it on Natures Prophet for dat enhanced pushing. I mean, I always had the perception of it being used basically, like I said before, on mostly INT heroes to support their team as I felt STR heroes needed other items in greater priority.
Someone mind explaining this for me?
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
If you grab a Mekansm and your opponents don't have one, you have a very strong advantage for that period of time. Doesn't really matter who it's on--as long as you have the mana pool, you can hold it.
For Prophet you pretty much just turn into an air-dropped heal for your team when needed.
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Mek on 5th position is usually awkward because it will be late as hell. As long as it's on a hero that can position properly easily (e.g. Windrunner) is a natural pusher (e.g. Prophet tho he has other qualities as well. Chen is probably a better example in this category) or a tanky hero that isn't really an autoattacker and usually in the middle of the whole mess (e.g. Necrolyte, Undying) you're good to go.
Centaur and Kunkka are kind of awkward choices for a mek but there might be some weird FUCK WE ALL RANDOMED teamcomps where guys like that end up being the best mek carriers.
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EPT
