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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On September 26 2012 02:56 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 02:52 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:55 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:42 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:31 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:25 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
If axes ulti works the same way it does in dota, it checks if the hero is below 3/4.5/600 hp, then does like 100k or 1 mil damage to it, which always kills it because you cant heal more hp than your max hp. If they are below X hp then I believe all buffs on the guy are disabled, which is how it goes through shallow grave etc. So why would you do lethal damage that requires removing buffs to the unit instead of merely killing it on the condition that it's hp is less than the value. :dota mechanics: There is a kill trigger in wc3; that shouldn't be an issue. The only thing I can think is that it would make determining kill credit require an extra trigger, but doing a lethal blow that removes buffs also requires an extra trigger so ^_^ On September 26 2012 01:45 Qbek wrote:
Maybe because shallow grave prevents simply killing stuff? Dunno A kill trigger will kill an invulnerable unit. Stuff like that doesn't matter. Unless we actively take part in coding the game or are wc3 map editor experts (which don't even really matter in Dota2), we shouldn't really start criticising how Icefrog does his stuff. There's probably a reason why he did it this way. Where do you get the impression that I am criticizing Icefrog exactly?
Fair enough, replace it with 'questioning'. Same dice.
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On September 26 2012 03:10 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 02:56 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 02:52 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:55 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:42 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:31 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:25 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
If axes ulti works the same way it does in dota, it checks if the hero is below 3/4.5/600 hp, then does like 100k or 1 mil damage to it, which always kills it because you cant heal more hp than your max hp. If they are below X hp then I believe all buffs on the guy are disabled, which is how it goes through shallow grave etc. So why would you do lethal damage that requires removing buffs to the unit instead of merely killing it on the condition that it's hp is less than the value. :dota mechanics: There is a kill trigger in wc3; that shouldn't be an issue. The only thing I can think is that it would make determining kill credit require an extra trigger, but doing a lethal blow that removes buffs also requires an extra trigger so ^_^ On September 26 2012 01:45 Qbek wrote:
Maybe because shallow grave prevents simply killing stuff? Dunno A kill trigger will kill an invulnerable unit. Stuff like that doesn't matter. Unless we actively take part in coding the game or are wc3 map editor experts (which don't even really matter in Dota2), we shouldn't really start criticising how Icefrog does his stuff. There's probably a reason why he did it this way. Where do you get the impression that I am criticizing Icefrog exactly? Fair enough, replace it with 'questioning'. Same dice.
There is a pretty big difference between wondering why he did it that way and telling him he did it wrong. I did the former not the latter.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On September 26 2012 03:13 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 03:10 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 02:56 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 02:52 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:55 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:42 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:31 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 26 2012 01:25 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
If axes ulti works the same way it does in dota, it checks if the hero is below 3/4.5/600 hp, then does like 100k or 1 mil damage to it, which always kills it because you cant heal more hp than your max hp. If they are below X hp then I believe all buffs on the guy are disabled, which is how it goes through shallow grave etc. So why would you do lethal damage that requires removing buffs to the unit instead of merely killing it on the condition that it's hp is less than the value. :dota mechanics: There is a kill trigger in wc3; that shouldn't be an issue. The only thing I can think is that it would make determining kill credit require an extra trigger, but doing a lethal blow that removes buffs also requires an extra trigger so ^_^ On September 26 2012 01:45 Qbek wrote:
Maybe because shallow grave prevents simply killing stuff? Dunno A kill trigger will kill an invulnerable unit. Stuff like that doesn't matter. Unless we actively take part in coding the game or are wc3 map editor experts (which don't even really matter in Dota2), we shouldn't really start criticising how Icefrog does his stuff. There's probably a reason why he did it this way. Where do you get the impression that I am criticizing Icefrog exactly? Fair enough, replace it with 'questioning'. Same dice. There is a pretty big difference between wondering why he did it that way and telling him he did it wrong. I did the former not the latter.
Didn't mean to imply that you were doing the latter :<
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Not quite so simple question: what do you do if your trilane (vs trilane) is losing?
I've been mixing in some dota1 upper ranked cd games where captains seem much more comfortable pitting trilane vs trilane than suicide laning. In cd usually one trilane will be much weaker, and if you give away an advantage early, say your trilane gets double killed two minutes in, your trilane basically has to feed or give up all cs, unless you can burst someone down immediately (which probably won't happen because there's a limited support pool).
Now what happens is your heroes are underleveled and nowhere near level 6, and your supports are completely broke from giving all the cs to the carry and can't pull. They might have money for wards/upgrading chicken, but they won't even have boots. Basically, if you stick with the trilane and your other lanes can't solo kill, you're going to get stomped.
What should you do, and when do you abandon the trilane?
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On September 26 2012 12:48 igotmyown wrote:
Not quite so simple question: what do you do if your trilane (vs trilane) is losing?
I've been mixing in some dota1 upper ranked cd games where captains seem much more comfortable pitting trilane vs trilane than suicide laning. In cd usually one trilane will be much weaker, and if you give away an advantage early, say your trilane gets double killed two minutes in, your trilane basically has to feed or give up all cs, unless you can burst someone down immediately (which probably won't happen because there's a limited support pool).
Now what happens is your heroes are underleveled and nowhere near level 6, and your supports are completely broke from giving all the cs to the carry and can't pull. They might have money for wards/upgrading chicken, but they won't even have boots. Basically, if you stick with the trilane and your other lanes can't solo kill, you're going to get stomped.
What should you do, and when do you abandon the trilane?
send your 2 supports elsewhere and get them to gank
if they get ganks off successfully then the trilane either has 2 options, make their supports tp around and counter gank/defend, or push the trilane
then you can make the decision to tp in 3/4 heroes and try and defend the tower 4v3 or you can let them take the tier 1 so your carry might find some farm
btw you should send the supports elsewhere if you know they arent gonna achieve anything by staying in lane
but if you realise this too late then even when your supports start roaming they may not achieve much due to lvl difference and items.
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What is the best way to farm as a mele hero vs a ranged hero?
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Get a ranged support, or kill the guy.
On a more serious note, if your hero doesn't have a natural long range farm ability (ie omni can heal creeps for CS, DK can spam breath, DS can ion shell creeps), you need to get regen+shield. Some heroes have regen build in, ie DK and omni, some will build it anyway, ie AM going BF, or else tranquils is a great option.
These kinds of lanes are much easier in mid, due to the miss chance uphill and the lack of sight. Especially so if you can get a better block off.
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get a stout shield and only go near creeps for last hits
but if the ranged hero is fragile and youre a pudge for example, i find punching on with him to be easier sometimes
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Also, aggro the creeps by initiating an attack on a hero and pulling back. The creeps will be closer for you to last hit and will likely kill the ranged creep and push the lane.
If you have a stout and a tango, it might be wise in certain situations to tango early and go up and harass the enemy hero straight up. Melee heroes have higher base damage than ranged heroes.
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I often find that when playing as crystal maiden, I get taken out immediately in later team fights, especially when I try to pop my ultimate. Is there a specific item I should build to counteract that or should I just hold back until the fight is already well underway before engaging?
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On September 27 2012 04:56 RuiBarbO wrote:
I often find that when playing as crystal maiden, I get taken out immediately in later team fights, especially when I try to pop my ultimate. Is there a specific item I should build to counteract that or should I just hold back until the fight is already well underway before engaging?
Ghost scepter, and generally stay back as supports in fights late game
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On September 27 2012 04:56 RuiBarbO wrote:
I often find that when playing as crystal maiden, I get taken out immediately in later team fights, especially when I try to pop my ultimate. Is there a specific item I should build to counteract that or should I just hold back until the fight is already well underway before engaging?
Many hard supports who lack escape mechanisms suffer this problem, if you are the support it is unlikely that you will have the farm necessary to buy items like bkb which would help you survive in teamfights because you should be buying wards and other support items like mek. which really only leaves the option of hanging back just outside the maximum range of the enemy heroes attacks and going in only once they have thrown their spells.
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don't ulti as cm until most of their disables are out
just use nova and freeze from max range
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On September 27 2012 04:56 RuiBarbO wrote:
I often find that when playing as crystal maiden, I get taken out immediately in later team fights, especially when I try to pop my ultimate. Is there a specific item I should build to counteract that or should I just hold back until the fight is already well underway before engaging?
Don't pop ult unless everything else is disabled eg in a blackhole. Stay at the edges just casting your first two spells from safety.
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I have a question about tranquil boots: Is it viable on CK? Especially in a tri vs tri i like them alot and it supports armlet because i can later disassemble them into vlads but people keep telling me treads > all without giving a proper explanation why it is like that.
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On September 27 2012 09:34 infam wrote:
I have a question about tranquil boots: Is it viable on CK? Especially in a tri vs tri i like them alot and it supports armlet because i can later disassemble them into vlads but people keep telling me treads > all without giving a proper explanation why it is like that.
Because tranq boots provide hp regen but not mana regen. Your combo takes a minimum of 210 mana, and that's not including your ulti or multiple casts of your spells. CK's mana pool is pretty sad; you don't want to be heading back to the fountain everytime you use your skills. I like to use a bottle to supply my hp/mana, but that's me. Treads are good because you can smack harder and survive longer.
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On September 27 2012 09:34 infam wrote:
I have a question about tranquil boots: Is it viable on CK? Especially in a tri vs tri i like them alot and it supports armlet because i can later disassemble them into vlads but people keep telling me treads > all without giving a proper explanation why it is like that.
I like your thinking, that you would disassemble later for Vlads but in this case it wouldn't be optimal on a hero like CK. Tranquil boots is basically a handicap until you can get rid of it (for vlads) , and you wouldn't make Vlads for a LONG time.
HeH_ covered it, Chaos Knight is one of the best gankers in the mid game. You are level 6-12 basically a pudge/tiny/etc, think of it like that. CK's biggest weakness is the mana pool, Treads (Intelligence) is pretty core on him during this phase(his incredibly strong gank/roam capability) since you need that mana. Then treads still is best for you late game so works fine.
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Not only this but vlads is terrible for CK, as it is for all illusion carries.
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Depends, if you going for other Orb effect beside lifesteal (Deso/Skadi/etc) then Vlad is the only way to get lifesteal while also giving bonus damage, armor and mana regenration for your team.
and eventhough the illusions it self dont benefit from any of the aura, they do give the benefit to other units near the illusion. So if you ulti and send the illusion to 3 separate lane, all the lane will 'have a vlads' which will make pushing faster
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So how is visage not really strong? I've played a few games with him and your ability to trade in short bursts with your e/q is pretty amazing and your extended exchange is pretty strong too with that short cd nuke. The ult is pretty weak if you don't have the micro skill to use it properly but if you do they can be used for cross map ganks with double stun and rune control/scouting and only gets stronger the better you are. Also really fun to play  Only real weaknesses I see are the huge ass mana costs on your nuke,how squishy your familiars are, and how hard it is to stack your nuke without being really aggressive (hard to do if your team isn't coordinated) and it kind of forces you to be responsive (can lead to your ally dying to massive burst and you can't burst back). He also seems like he can force farm lanes vs certain picks that like to bully you in lane in short bursts (bane)
Edit: also high familiar bounty when they die is another problem
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EPT
