EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1085
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govie
9334 Posts
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
Nyx + witch doctor | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On April 27 2015 19:30 VelJa wrote: We run with my friend a MEdusa midd yesterday our point was to allow her to get farm easyly till the midd game (we secdured midd with wards, and supports had tp for backup if she was engage). at 20 she had manta. then at 20m we group as 4 and started pushing tower. we just create space like hell for our medusa. She manage to get a lot of farm and just a+click ennemy base at 40m (2 divine at the end ^^) The point is that she need a LOT of stuff to be good. It's like a specter That's the thing though, can you realistically say Medusa did better in that scenario where everything was tailored to her every need than another carry would have in her place? Say Luna hits a similar Manta timing, would the game not have been easier? Everything with Medusa just seems forced. You make the comparison to spectre, but I don't think they're similar. Spectre can be strong in the midgame and early lategame with relatively cheap items because her kit gives her damage, surviveability, escape, and initiation. I can get completely zoned in lane as Spectre, hit 6 with just boots, and still help my team secure kills to give me gold and xp to use to catch up with farming and more fights with every ult. Or if I'm farming really well on Spectre I can start to snowball really early. A Medusa with nothing but level 6 can make the enemy run away for a couple seconds before they turn around unimpressed. She doesn't even farm that well before having a combination of good levels and at least a 2k gold item. And unlike many carries who can be useful by simultaneously farming and pressuring a lane when behind while her team makes space, it's too easy for just a single enemy to engage her with a nuke or something, and suddenly she doesn't have mana to use tp or ult or whatever she needs to escape. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
If Spectre's team is losing, they can lose a lane in 20 minutes because Spectre without a Radiance contributes virtually zero to defending high ground. Trying to go high ground against Medusa is still trying to high ground against Medusa. The only carry with really comparable high ground defense to Medusa is Sniper (Sniper is better at it though), but Sniper is a backline core who really works with a very different kind of team than Dusa. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On April 28 2015 06:11 TheYango wrote: Medusa's incredibly good as a carry for defending high ground due to her counter-engaging ability. With the way the current version works, this is very valuable. There are other carries that are as good as she is at defending high ground, but the majority of them are not frontline cores like she is, as most frontline cores are melee. If Spectre's team is losing, they can lose a lane in 20 minutes because Spectre without a Radiance contributes virtually zero to defending high ground. Trying to go high ground against Medusa is still trying to high ground against Medusa. The only carry with really comparable high ground defense to Medusa is Sniper (Sniper is better at it though), but Sniper is a backline core who really works with a very different kind of team than Dusa. I always find it difficult to turn a high ground defense as dusa into a win (short or long term). She's so centered around fights that require commitment that it feels that once the enemy team has pushed to high ground they'll continue to have the map control to split push around the medusa and force weak responses. Like if the enemy team threatens another lane while medusa is dragging her slow butt up a lane they can force her to TP back, but she has no actual pressure to force the fight so the enemy team can back up and do it again. Maybe there's just something I'm not grasping with the hero though. I get that your team is a big part of it, but being medusa feels like it's putting that extra pressure on my team to really nail initiation. Uh so I guess what am I not grasping? What's the best way to actually turn around high ground defense with dusa given her low mobility? | ||
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
On April 28 2015 05:42 Nightmarjoo wrote: That's the thing though, can you realistically say Medusa did better in that scenario where everything was tailored to her every need than another carry would have in her place? Say Luna hits a similar Manta timing, would the game not have been easier? Everything with Medusa just seems forced. You make the comparison to spectre, but I don't think they're similar. Spectre can be strong in the midgame and early lategame with relatively cheap items because her kit gives her damage, surviveability, escape, and initiation. I can get completely zoned in lane as Spectre, hit 6 with just boots, and still help my team secure kills to give me gold and xp to use to catch up with farming and more fights with every ult. Or if I'm farming really well on Spectre I can start to snowball really early. A Medusa with nothing but level 6 can make the enemy run away for a couple seconds before they turn around unimpressed. She doesn't even farm that well before having a combination of good levels and at least a 2k gold item. And unlike many carries who can be useful by simultaneously farming and pressuring a lane when behind while her team makes space, it's too easy for just a single enemy to engage her with a nuke or something, and suddenly she doesn't have mana to use tp or ult or whatever she needs to escape. yango already answer. (Medusa is way more tanky than a luna) | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
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Surprise.820
United Kingdom1276 Posts
I'm sure some people like the casual Yasha for movement speed to get around and that's fine too, but there's people who forgo it on Dusa and spend too long getting HP+Mana items... Like seriously having parts of a Bloodstone or Skadi like Point Booster or Soul Booster then your team get an Aegis for you and you either finish your item or use your Demon Edge to farm up into MKB or Rapier within the Aegis time if possible then parade as a team. | ||
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OrionTEK
United States11 Posts
On April 30 2015 19:04 Surprise.820 wrote: IDK why people don't get a casual demon edge on Dusa or Gyro before/after they've got relevant EHP items and go ham with a quicker Rosh. The Demon Edge helps with farming on split-shots and can be upgraded to something safe or dangerous with a lot of damage when you need it. I'm sure some people like the casual Yasha for movement speed to get around and that's fine too, but there's people who forgo it on Dusa and spend too long getting HP+Mana items... Like seriously having parts of a Bloodstone or Skadi like Point Booster or Soul Booster then your team get an Aegis for you and you either finish your item or use your Demon Edge to farm up into MKB or Rapier within the Aegis time if possible then parade as a team. I'm assuming by casual you would go something like Yasha->Skadi then Demon Edge? And then upgrade that into an MKB/Crit or a rapier? Im talking about Dusa since Gyro really isnt a very relevant hero any more especially in the position 1 role. I feel like getting a casual demons edge isnt worth it, since thats 2400 gold for a no stats item, and you would quite possibly need a bkb or a manta so you don't get stunlocked/ or silenced for the entirety of the teamfight. Maybe if you were going a more farm oriented build where you just didn't join any teamfights I could see it maybe working out, but I think getting a Manta first would be better. Maybe if you could elaborate about where you would fit in the demon edge it might make more sense, I think I am misunderstanding you. | ||
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Surprise.820
United Kingdom1276 Posts
Any time seems fine to me, even as early as after Aquila and Phase if you're not worrying too much about being ganked (or need a quick BKB or something as Gyro) and just want to focus on farming with a boost. I mostly get it after a casual Point Booster though because that item is sick on Dusa. With Edge, Aquila, Phase you have 88 additional damage. Demon Edge is rare but I've seen it plenty of times when there's stacks prepared for the Dusa/Gyro (allowing you to get the Yasha or something else easily after that) and in losing games to bounce back. Yasha gives a good movement speed boost, 31 IAS, 2.3(?) armour, and 58 additional damage (including Aquila and Phase.) Yasha is more popular because movement speed owns in this game and it gets you around faster which equates to faster farming in a standard game. Gyro likes it for obvious reasons, it allows you to fight with Medusa without being a Snail and giving some damage back. It also promises a later upgrade of SnY (Gyro) or Manta Style for dispel. My argument is that even if there's only a 30 damage difference and sometimes less DPS depending on the scenario for the Edge, I prefer it over Yasha because I'm often building a rapier or MKB after my E-HP item ASAP (maybe skipping 2050g for Yasha and only 3800 away. Rosh kill bounty gives a boost for that too as soon as you go for it.) But ultimately I'm a reactive gamer scrub whom keeps asking for stacks because I don't trust my team so maybe that's why I don't value the Yasha enough because I don't want to feed with them and hopefully influenced the supports to stack everything for me. By the way Manta sucks as a rushed item on both heroes unless you're relying on the dispel. Not enough DPS, not enough STR (int too) and ranged illusion Manta is weak compared to melee illusions. No damage Medusa is my least favourite popular meme in Dota. tl;dr I like rapier rush on a hero who tends to be hard to kill after a Skadi or Bloodstone with an Aegis so I can control game (or a hero that has insane damage output with it.) Yasha is safer, early game efficient and more popular for a reason. | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9110 Posts
This page: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Break makes no mention of it. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 03 2015 05:49 Jonoman92 wrote: Does break disable Storm Spirit's Overload ability? This page: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Break makes no mention of it. Wash thou mouth peagan! The liquipediagods are superior to ur peagangods! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Break <-- mentions overtoad | ||
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GentleDrill
United Kingdom672 Posts
On May 03 2015 05:49 Jonoman92 wrote: Does break disable Storm Spirit's Overload ability? This page: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Break makes no mention of it. Except it does mention it? | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On April 27 2015 17:46 Nightmarjoo wrote: + Show Spoiler + How does Medusa have any impact at any point of the game? I like the hero thematically, but cannot win with her to save my life. At every point in the game I wish I had more items to have an effect. I've run her mid, but mostly play her out of safelane. I've tried dominator builds for stacking for farm acceleration, I've tried madness for farming + fighting, I've tried orchid for fighting, I used a lot of maelstrom openings for farm/fight balance, I've tried builds like pointbooster -> mkb for just enough tank into flat dps, and I've tried everything in between what I just described. I've made bkbs and mantas. Unless my team completely flopped my cs is usually quite high, I just feel like I can't help my team no matter what items I have. Even when 6slotted with mjolnir butterfly mkb rapier skadi bots even if I win the game just feels so much harder than it should be given my items. I've run her with treads and phase. The few times I feel like my item progression was really good I can't catch the enemy to sustain dps. I've built hex before to alleviate that and it's still just not enough. The item I like most consistently on her is maelstrom, sometimes with a madness, sometimes not. Mjolnir is nice on her once she has skadi's tankiness. I never know how quickly to try and get those big items though. I've tried rushing mael skadi mjolnir, I've tried getting dom or madness or yasha before mael for increased farming or fighting capacity. I've tried making a bunch of midgame items to quickly put 2k blocks of gold into hopefully immediately useful items. All to no avail. I've tried split shot max for heavy farming and snake max for fighting. I've played enough of her that by this point if it's just a matter of consistently incorrectly adapting my item build to the game/enemy team I should have accidentally done the right thing and won more often. I've tried different theoretical approaches to making her useful: heavily focusing on stats to give her high mana pool to maximize the strength of mana shield while using the longevity to snake the enemy team a couple times, or getting just a casual point booster to make into skadi later and then bee-lining flat dps in mkb or bfly or mjolnir to use with split shot asap, or not touching stats items and relying on innate stats for manashield which already makes her tankier than other heroes and either going for flat dps or lightning, or trying to make her a split pusher to pressure the enemy until I get big, or trying to just make her a farm machine with stacks to safely get big asap. None of these approaches have consistently done well. Is there something glaringly bad about my approach or am I missing something critical? As someone who finds winning with medusa a matter of convincing teammates to 5 man around 25 minute mark (after 1.5 slots), all i can say: abuse the fact that hero has naturally higher EHP than every non-WK hero, use her as frontliner with decent damage and force down objectives. Also, you kinda want to have a sustain item on her of sorts, so your best bet is probably bloodstone after some farming item into all-in dps/bkb. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9110 Posts
It was not there at the time of my post. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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goody153
44311 Posts
On May 03 2015 06:14 govie wrote: Wash thou mouth peagan! The liquipediagods are superior to ur peagangods! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Break <-- mentions overtoad overload has break ? i'm picking storm against PA all the time now | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On May 04 2015 04:39 goody153 wrote: overload has break ? i'm picking storm against PA all the time now I think you misread. Q: What is it with people calling themselves X THE SLAYER | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
One of those things is not like the others lel | ||
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