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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1083

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1254 Next
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-22 22:15:58
April 22 2015 22:15 GMT
#21641
just make mom buff take 100% extra damage from ancients, neutrals and creeps instead
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
April 22 2015 22:43 GMT
#21642
in all seriousness what if it was 30% from heroes and 50% from creeps?
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
April 22 2015 22:44 GMT
#21643
it needs to be at least 100% to offset the impact
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
ADSRelease
Profile Joined October 2012
United States37 Posts
April 23 2015 00:18 GMT
#21644
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
April 23 2015 00:49 GMT
#21645
On April 23 2015 09:18 ADSRelease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.


If rat NP ever comes back in style you could hope for a 10 slotted prophet with double necro aghs refresher on a courier.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
April 23 2015 06:22 GMT
#21646
Might not be a simple question:

If heroes get nerfed to let other heroes shine (as we've seen how big patches would come before/during/after big tournaments), would Dota 2 ever reach a "perfect game state" where every hero is playable in the metagame (of course assuming that the metagame acknowledges a plethora of playable strategies as competitive)? And if so, how long would it take for the game to reach the said perfect game state?

I know that there was a recent tournament (DAC I think) where I think less than 10 heroes in the available hero pool for captains mode were not used. However, if we look at the hero pick/ban distribution, we wouldn't get an equal pick/ban distribution, we'd still get a certain number of heroes that were picked/banned and then it would trickle down to heroes that were picked/banned once or twice.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
FHDH
Profile Joined July 2014
United States7023 Posts
April 23 2015 06:29 GMT
#21647
I think the best we can hope for at any given time is every hero having a good edge-case usage. Part of realizing this probable-best-case is higher skilled players and better captains, though. The captains have to be able to recognize when a low-frequency pick is going to be ideal, and their players have to be able to maximize it.

Otherwise you just have captains trying stuff, and it maybe working.
После драки кулаками не машут (Don't shake your fist when the fight is over)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 07:09:30
April 23 2015 07:08 GMT
#21648
On April 23 2015 15:22 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Might not be a simple question:

If heroes get nerfed to let other heroes shine (as we've seen how big patches would come before/during/after big tournaments), would Dota 2 ever reach a "perfect game state" where every hero is playable in the metagame (of course assuming that the metagame acknowledges a plethora of playable strategies as competitive)? And if so, how long would it take for the game to reach the said perfect game state?

I know that there was a recent tournament (DAC I think) where I think less than 10 heroes in the available hero pool for captains mode were not used. However, if we look at the hero pick/ban distribution, we wouldn't get an equal pick/ban distribution, we'd still get a certain number of heroes that were picked/banned and then it would trickle down to heroes that were picked/banned once or twice.


On April 15 2015 01:23 TheYango wrote:
I've said this before, but that's pretty much impossible. Even if a "perfect version" existed, the desire to simplify and reduce things to something understandable would lead players to copy what the best teams are doing, creating the illusion that what they were doing is the strongest in that version, even if it actually wasn't.

The only time we have "diversity" is during the first few months of a patch where nobody actually has any idea what they're doing so everyone is just trying random shit. That invariably ends when you have a major tournament that's big enough for everyone to pull out all their secret strats so that by the end we know which one was the best.

In other words, even if a "perfect" version existed, it would be totally indistinguishable from a imperfect version to anyone, and would then get changed 3-4 months later.

It's possible that such a version actually already existed at some point in the history of DotA, and we just had no way of recognizing it because individually, or even collectively, we don't ever have perfect knowledge of a given version of DotA. DotA's too deep of a game for that to be the case.
Moderator
BeeLz
Profile Joined December 2014
Belgium52 Posts
April 23 2015 07:22 GMT
#21649
I doubt dota 2 will ever reach a "perfect game state", I do believe that's what valve is aiming for but there's too many variables to do that. In the past we've seen how very small changes can make some heroes very undesirable in the metagame. Also don't mistake heroes not being picked a lot in the professional scene as them not being viable or not being in a good spot. It's often just trends with some team trying something out, other teams picking it up and new strategies being found to counter it.

Even in an infinetely less complex game like Cs GO small changes often change the entire way the game is played, so I doubt they will ever get it perfect in dota2. And with a few exceptions I feel dota is in pretty good spot balance wise at the moment. '

SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
April 23 2015 07:28 GMT
#21650
Thanks for the answers. I wonder how things will go when IceFrog would have to pass the torch to someone else...

(also, I'm amazed that Yango dug up a post from a week ago given how this thread goes fast sometimes)
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Jotoco
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1342 Posts
April 23 2015 15:55 GMT
#21651
I hope valve never tries to achieve one, single, static, perfect game state. The constant change makes the game interesting. That was one thing that got me bored out of sc.
zdarr
Profile Joined September 2010
France375 Posts
April 23 2015 17:47 GMT
#21652
On April 23 2015 09:18 ADSRelease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.


Well my best guess would be tinker and an infinite army of necro warriors
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
April 23 2015 17:49 GMT
#21653
On April 24 2015 02:47 zdarr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 09:18 ADSRelease wrote:
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.


Well my best guess would be tinker and an infinite army of necro warriors

then you just make rearm not refresh necrobook
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
eieio
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States14512 Posts
April 23 2015 17:51 GMT
#21654
rearm already doesn't refresh necrobook o.o
LiquidDota Staff
TL+ Member
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 17:53:03
April 23 2015 17:52 GMT
#21655
see? icefrog agrees with me
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
RoyGBiv_13
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1275 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 18:15:29
April 23 2015 18:14 GMT
#21656
Or you are icefrog

+ Show Spoiler +
checks items... confirmed
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
April 23 2015 18:32 GMT
#21657
On April 23 2015 16:22 BeeLz wrote:
Also don't mistake heroes not being picked a lot in the professional scene as them not being viable or not being in a good spot. It's often just trends with some team trying something out, other teams picking it up and new strategies being found to counter it.

Indeed, the lack of respect towards rarely picked heroes can be amazing in pubs, be it lvl 6 enchantres damage, slark with low hp + shadow dance jumping into leshrac's ulti, ES, WW and oracle, etc etc
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
April 23 2015 19:26 GMT
#21658
Who the hell is Stray228 streaming right now?
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 19:27:36
April 23 2015 19:26 GMT
#21659
dunno
seems to be a russian caster or something?
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
April 23 2015 19:49 GMT
#21660
Real question: why are pros always tapping ctrl randomly? Is it to look for changes on theinimap faster? I don't really get it.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
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