• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:22
CEST 15:22
KST 22:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 667 users

Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1083

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1254 Next
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-22 22:15:58
April 22 2015 22:15 GMT
#21641
just make mom buff take 100% extra damage from ancients, neutrals and creeps instead
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
April 22 2015 22:43 GMT
#21642
in all seriousness what if it was 30% from heroes and 50% from creeps?
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
April 22 2015 22:44 GMT
#21643
it needs to be at least 100% to offset the impact
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
ADSRelease
Profile Joined October 2012
United States37 Posts
April 23 2015 00:18 GMT
#21644
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
April 23 2015 00:49 GMT
#21645
On April 23 2015 09:18 ADSRelease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.


If rat NP ever comes back in style you could hope for a 10 slotted prophet with double necro aghs refresher on a courier.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
April 23 2015 06:22 GMT
#21646
Might not be a simple question:

If heroes get nerfed to let other heroes shine (as we've seen how big patches would come before/during/after big tournaments), would Dota 2 ever reach a "perfect game state" where every hero is playable in the metagame (of course assuming that the metagame acknowledges a plethora of playable strategies as competitive)? And if so, how long would it take for the game to reach the said perfect game state?

I know that there was a recent tournament (DAC I think) where I think less than 10 heroes in the available hero pool for captains mode were not used. However, if we look at the hero pick/ban distribution, we wouldn't get an equal pick/ban distribution, we'd still get a certain number of heroes that were picked/banned and then it would trickle down to heroes that were picked/banned once or twice.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
FHDH
Profile Joined July 2014
United States7023 Posts
April 23 2015 06:29 GMT
#21647
I think the best we can hope for at any given time is every hero having a good edge-case usage. Part of realizing this probable-best-case is higher skilled players and better captains, though. The captains have to be able to recognize when a low-frequency pick is going to be ideal, and their players have to be able to maximize it.

Otherwise you just have captains trying stuff, and it maybe working.
После драки кулаками не машут (Don't shake your fist when the fight is over)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 07:09:30
April 23 2015 07:08 GMT
#21648
On April 23 2015 15:22 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Might not be a simple question:

If heroes get nerfed to let other heroes shine (as we've seen how big patches would come before/during/after big tournaments), would Dota 2 ever reach a "perfect game state" where every hero is playable in the metagame (of course assuming that the metagame acknowledges a plethora of playable strategies as competitive)? And if so, how long would it take for the game to reach the said perfect game state?

I know that there was a recent tournament (DAC I think) where I think less than 10 heroes in the available hero pool for captains mode were not used. However, if we look at the hero pick/ban distribution, we wouldn't get an equal pick/ban distribution, we'd still get a certain number of heroes that were picked/banned and then it would trickle down to heroes that were picked/banned once or twice.


On April 15 2015 01:23 TheYango wrote:
I've said this before, but that's pretty much impossible. Even if a "perfect version" existed, the desire to simplify and reduce things to something understandable would lead players to copy what the best teams are doing, creating the illusion that what they were doing is the strongest in that version, even if it actually wasn't.

The only time we have "diversity" is during the first few months of a patch where nobody actually has any idea what they're doing so everyone is just trying random shit. That invariably ends when you have a major tournament that's big enough for everyone to pull out all their secret strats so that by the end we know which one was the best.

In other words, even if a "perfect" version existed, it would be totally indistinguishable from a imperfect version to anyone, and would then get changed 3-4 months later.

It's possible that such a version actually already existed at some point in the history of DotA, and we just had no way of recognizing it because individually, or even collectively, we don't ever have perfect knowledge of a given version of DotA. DotA's too deep of a game for that to be the case.
Moderator
BeeLz
Profile Joined December 2014
Belgium52 Posts
April 23 2015 07:22 GMT
#21649
I doubt dota 2 will ever reach a "perfect game state", I do believe that's what valve is aiming for but there's too many variables to do that. In the past we've seen how very small changes can make some heroes very undesirable in the metagame. Also don't mistake heroes not being picked a lot in the professional scene as them not being viable or not being in a good spot. It's often just trends with some team trying something out, other teams picking it up and new strategies being found to counter it.

Even in an infinetely less complex game like Cs GO small changes often change the entire way the game is played, so I doubt they will ever get it perfect in dota2. And with a few exceptions I feel dota is in pretty good spot balance wise at the moment. '

SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
April 23 2015 07:28 GMT
#21650
Thanks for the answers. I wonder how things will go when IceFrog would have to pass the torch to someone else...

(also, I'm amazed that Yango dug up a post from a week ago given how this thread goes fast sometimes)
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Jotoco
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1342 Posts
April 23 2015 15:55 GMT
#21651
I hope valve never tries to achieve one, single, static, perfect game state. The constant change makes the game interesting. That was one thing that got me bored out of sc.
zdarr
Profile Joined September 2010
France375 Posts
April 23 2015 17:47 GMT
#21652
On April 23 2015 09:18 ADSRelease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.


Well my best guess would be tinker and an infinite army of necro warriors
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
April 23 2015 17:49 GMT
#21653
On April 24 2015 02:47 zdarr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 09:18 ADSRelease wrote:
On April 23 2015 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
its called necronomicon
and it's because the summons are tied to the item. If you had a 2nd necrobook you could use one (both go on cooldown), refresh, then use the other to have 2 sets of summons if you really wanted (not worth the money).

As for reasons, you'd have to ask icefrog or something.


so i know they share cooldown, but you're saying if you have two books that the summons aren't shared? seems like too many slots. xD

yeah i guess i was hoping to find out a justification for it.


Well my best guess would be tinker and an infinite army of necro warriors

then you just make rearm not refresh necrobook
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
eieio
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States14512 Posts
April 23 2015 17:51 GMT
#21654
rearm already doesn't refresh necrobook o.o
LiquidDota Staff
TL+ Member
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 17:53:03
April 23 2015 17:52 GMT
#21655
see? icefrog agrees with me
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
RoyGBiv_13
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1275 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 18:15:29
April 23 2015 18:14 GMT
#21656
Or you are icefrog

+ Show Spoiler +
checks items... confirmed
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
April 23 2015 18:32 GMT
#21657
On April 23 2015 16:22 BeeLz wrote:
Also don't mistake heroes not being picked a lot in the professional scene as them not being viable or not being in a good spot. It's often just trends with some team trying something out, other teams picking it up and new strategies being found to counter it.

Indeed, the lack of respect towards rarely picked heroes can be amazing in pubs, be it lvl 6 enchantres damage, slark with low hp + shadow dance jumping into leshrac's ulti, ES, WW and oracle, etc etc
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
April 23 2015 19:26 GMT
#21658
Who the hell is Stray228 streaming right now?
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-23 19:27:36
April 23 2015 19:26 GMT
#21659
dunno
seems to be a russian caster or something?
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
April 23 2015 19:49 GMT
#21660
Real question: why are pros always tapping ctrl randomly? Is it to look for changes on theinimap faster? I don't really get it.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Prev 1 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1254 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
ComeBackTV 1562
RotterdaM1453
IndyStarCraft 493
WardiTV253
CranKy Ducklings195
Rex132
3DClanTV 92
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1453
IndyStarCraft 493
Rex 132
BRAT_OK 72
ProTech67
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50812
Horang2 7388
Hyuk 2454
EffOrt 1777
Barracks 1103
Larva 837
BeSt 762
firebathero 547
Stork 450
Hyun 337
[ Show more ]
Last 287
Soulkey 258
Rush 167
Dewaltoss 72
Sharp 55
Free 52
Movie 51
Shinee 49
Shine 47
sorry 45
sas.Sziky 44
sSak 40
zelot 25
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Terrorterran 12
yabsab 11
Dota 2
qojqva3728
XcaliburYe518
Gorgc418
League of Legends
febbydoto15
Counter-Strike
sgares281
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor441
Other Games
B2W.Neo2039
Beastyqt889
Hui .325
DeMusliM235
oskar199
Fuzer 158
QueenE41
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH312
• HeavenSC 5
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3988
• WagamamaTV867
League of Legends
• Nemesis2556
• Jankos1312
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
38m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4h 38m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.