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Bisutopia19234 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/16/Natures_Prophet_Large.png) Nature's Prophet
When Verodicia, Goddess of the Woods, had finished filling in the green places, having planted the coiled-up spirit in the seed, having lured the twining waters from deep within the rock, having sworn the sun its full attention to the growing things, she realized that her own time had reached its end, and like one of the leaves whose fate she had imprinted in the seed, she would fall without seeing the fruiting of her dream. It pained her to leave the world bereft, for the sprouts had not yet broken through the soil—and they would be tender and vulnerable to every sort of harm. She found in her seed pouch one last seed that she had missed in the sowing. She spoke a single word into the seed and swallowed it as she fell. Her vast body decomposed throughout the long winter, becoming the humus that would feed the seedlings in the spring. And on the morning of the vernal equinox, before the rest of the forest had begun to wake, that last seed ripened and burst in an instant. From it stepped Tequoia, Nature's Prophet, in full leaf, strong and wise, possessing Verodicia's power to foresee where he would be needed most in defense of the green places—and any who might be fortunate enough to call him an ally.
For abilities, stats, and other information, visit this hero's Liquipedia page here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Nature's_Prophet
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Do both of those teleports share the same cooldown?
Why does he have two teleports?
Seems a bit underpowered.
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
Having mid game issues
Question 1: When playing the prophet I run into a problem in the mid game where I am too squishy. At this point what Items can I use to help me survive longer in battles?
Question 2: By mid game/through out the game, I am experiencing issues with attack speed versus damage. While the prophet has high damage output and most core items for this hero increase that damage, it makes the prophet good for last hitting heroes but many can escape because damage is not dealt quickly enough. What can I do to slowly add attack speed through out the game or is this something I'm doing wrong?
Things I learned from playing prophet.
- Casting sprout and then casting Nature's Call on sprout before the Sprout ability disappears is a nice way to surround the enemy with trees.
- It seems like going for teleportation early helps a lot in ganking and reinforcing lanes early game. Is also useful if you want to save money on good boots in the early game.
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
On September 05 2012 03:13 mokumoku wrote:
Do both of those teleports share the same cooldown?
Why does he have two teleports?
Seems a bit underpowered.
Made an error in the OP, it's fixed.
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On September 05 2012 03:18 BisuDagger wrote:
Having mid game issues
Question 1: When playing the prophet I run into a problem in the mid game where I am too squishy. At this point what Items can I use to help me survive longer in battles?
Question 2: By mid game/through out the game, I am experiencing issues with attack speed versus damage. While the prophet has high damage output and most core items for this hero increase that damage, it makes the prophet good for last hitting heroes but many can escape because damage is not dealt quickly enough. What can I do to slowly add attack speed through out the game or is this something I'm doing wrong?
Things I learned from playing prophet.
- Casting sprout and then casting Nature's Call on sprout before the Sprout ability disappears is a nice way to surround the enemy with trees.
- It seems like going for teleportation early helps a lot in ganking and reinforcing lanes early game. Is also useful if you want to save money on good boots in the early game.
1) You're really not intended to be in the middle of any battles. Generally you'll see nature profits come in as the battle is already going on after having pushed their opponent's lane. I've seen people go for Aghs which helps him get a little bit extra HP, but you shouldn't focus any HP items or you'll probably just become entirely useless. Though, generally, people like to focus a lot of burst damage on him rather than health just because you become so much more useful especially if you've got a hard carry to defend... Them focusing on you is not a terrible thing.
2) It's all situational, if your opponents think they might be able to handle you, then you'll have to wait till they try to run away before using your sprouts... If you're far from towers, you can sprout, tele, sprout... If you're close to their towers and stuff you may just need a hard stunner on your team. If you're low on attack speed, don't be afraid to pick up mjollnir since you'll likely have the most creep kills in the game being a Furion. That item on him will exponentially increase your push and farm rate.
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How you play NP is up to you. If you're jungling with him then typically it's harder to gank but still very useful. He's a very strong mid and an ok off lane solo. Some people prefer to be wildly aggressive with him rushing items like urn + medallion and proceeding to gank non-stop while others prefer to farm everything on the map with midas and aghs. Still others play a pushing style of prophet that constantly split pushes while using the ultimate to help in teamfights that they are not even in, others utilize his ability to farm rapidly and be anywhere on the map to get quick support and teamfight items like mekansm/drums.
Small tip - the target struck last with the ult takes the most damage, never cast the ultimate directly onto the hero you want to damage. I've seen it do over a 1000 damage before in my death log from being the last person hit.
Larger tip - Use your ult during teamfights. Only use it to farm if you KNOW that there isn't going to be a teamfight during the cooldown duration or if you need to slow a push.
Question 1 : There's the old aghanim's build. Mekansm also solves this problem but pigeonholes you into preferring to be with your team during fights. Tequoia has low strength and low strength gain.
Question 2 : If you want to steadily increase your attack speed and damage get an Orchid. It's relatively cheap and is built from small components and has a disable that increases damage output on top of it.
Really the item choice for NP is going to be situational game to game. Agh's if you think you can get it before the opponents push comes and that it will be effective at stopping it, Midas if you're trying to level rapidly/be a primary farmer for your team.
Orchid is a compromise between damage, disable, and attack speed. Rushing a mjolnir can be a good way to raise your attack speed and add an extra magic damage component to your autos. An MKB raises your autoattack damage tremendously. Desolator lowers the armor of buildings (and heroes) you attack. Still, Scythe of Vise is an item you will almost always want to get after your primary item. It gives you damage, health, and a true disable. If going farm/primary carry a manta style or Daedalus should be your next choice.
There's also the dagon 5 ethereal blade way of playing NP but people generally only do this if they think they're way better than their opponents.
Most people tend to stick with standard boots in order to farm their items more rapidly as his TP gives him great mobility.
Here's an example jungle furion farming build (I'm sure everyone has seen it) - Midas, Aghs, etc. .
Different one that's not aghs -> Midas, Boots, Mjolnir, Treads, Scythe, MKB, Manta
Here's a sorta ganking/minus armor> - Medallion -> Boots -> Deso -> Scythe ->AC
(If you prefer Urn/dont like deso, Urn -> Boots -> MKB (or whatever dps item you prefer) -> Scythe -> Shivas)
A pushing build - RoB-> Mekansm -> Drums -> Necro 3 - > Scythe
A mid Furion typically does the same things as a jungle furion he just skills differently (getting more points in teleport than in treants) and SHOULD farm more rapidly.
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Prophet is probably the most versatile hero in the game. You can play pretty much any role and (in pubs) pretty much do any build you want and it works to some extent, you just need to find out what do you feel more confortable doing, or what your team needs.
The only thing I can say without writing too much is: think twice before ulting. A lot of times spamming the ult looks cool, you are gonna get tons of money and harass everyone on the map BUT if you have a hard carry you are going to screw him and if ganks or team fights burst you might regret having it on cooldown.
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Hi Bisu,
As always, answering DotA questions is never simple because there are a wide range of factors to consider, including but not limited to: how well you are farming, what heroes the opposing team has picked, and how well your team is doing. In that regard, here is how I would answer...
Question 1: Most Furion's get away with having low HP in the early game by jungling or playing smartly in lane. Because Furion can farm quickly with his Treants, he can typically get away with not purchasing many stat-boosting items like Circlets or Branches in the early game; this allows him to "rush" to items like Power Treads or Hand of Midas, which both accelerate his farming and ganking potential.
In general, Aghanim's Scepter is an all-around solid item for Furion in the early to mid-game because it resolves the issues you stated: it provides you durability and increased attack speed/dmg, as well as a deeper mana pool. What's more, if you have mastered his ultimate and realize how easy it is to snipe heroes with good map awareness, having the extra level in the ultimate ability can net you some extra kills. Scepter is also a fairly easy item to build, with every base item being only 1200 or 1000 gold. Moreover, damaging all the creeps on the map often pushes the wave back to the point where you can set-up ganks, save a tower, or even buy time to kill Roshan.
Question 2: This is where the question becomes tricky because there are many justifiable item choices for Furion. (Hopefully by the midgame you already have a Hand of Midas to increase your attack speed.) To name a few items and give you a sense of what situations they would be useful in:
- Scythe of Vyse: Hopefully I don't have to explain how powerful a 3.5s Hex ability is. Scythe is a smart choice if are falling behind on farm and need to help gank more; the added stat boosts are also nothing to scoff at, as Ultimate Orb + Mystic Staff's stat boosts grant both survivability and damage.
- Orchid Malevolence: Silence is invaluable against Windwalkers/Blinkers and, additionally, disrupts the spell combos of many heroes (e.g. Lina). The 25% additional damage may be less useful in a 1v1 situation but in teamfights the extra dmg is often what brings down the big bad carry. To keep things in perspective, 25% bonus damage is equivalent to the maximum damage amplification by Undying's Level 2 ultimate ability. Last, the increased attack speed compliments late-game dps items (SEE BELOW) perfectly.
- Desolator: Another common item, great for situations in which you can lock down a hero with Sprout and just right-click. This item is better when you are going against agility heroes with inherently higher armor or skills that buff armor (e.g. Lich, Dragon Knight). When I think of when to use this item, I think of the opposing team having heroes like Sniper, Ursa, or Lycan.
- Daedalus: I will rarely rush to this item because I find the "reliable" damage of Orchid and Deso to be more useful in the mid-game. However, I do feel that this is a core item for any semi-carry Furion.
- Monkey King Bar: True strike and mini-stuns are always useful, with the former great against heroes with inherent dodge chance, like Phantom Assassin or Brewmaster, and the latter good for cancelling channeled spells.
In short, assess the situation and make decisions. As you play more, you will get a better sense of what item you will need to succeed.
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Always Carry a TP scroll with you. Seriously. Even though you have your own teleport. I cannot tell you how cool it is to use the teleport skill, push a lane, then immediately TP out without waiting for the CD.
Also remember that your Sprout ability blocks line of sight. So if you are about to get ganked just double click to cast it on yourself and TP out (with your TP scroll  )
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United States47024 Posts
On September 05 2012 04:07 Nevuk wrote:
Small tip - the target struck last with the ult takes the most damage, never cast the ultimate directly onto the hero you want to damage. I've seen it do over a 1000 damage before in my death log from being the last person hit.
Larger tip - Use your ult during teamfights. Only use it to farm if you KNOW that there isn't going to be a teamfight during the cooldown duration or if you need to slow a push.
Even if you know there isn't going to fight, you shouldn't random ult just to farm. Your teammates could often have otherwise cleaned up those lanes (which your ult will clear somewhat inefficiently as it won't lasthit all the creeps and won't give anyone XP for those creeps it doesn't kill), and ulting is pretty much guaranteed to push out all the lanes (again, making them harder to farm). You should ult either when you need the damage in a gank/fight, or when you WANT all the lanes to push out (when you're pushing against the enemy, or you need to counterpush.
Also, as far as item choices go, Necrobook needs to be mentioned for it's pushing power/utility.
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On September 05 2012 04:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:07 Nevuk wrote:
Small tip - the target struck last with the ult takes the most damage, never cast the ultimate directly onto the hero you want to damage. I've seen it do over a 1000 damage before in my death log from being the last person hit.
Larger tip - Use your ult during teamfights. Only use it to farm if you KNOW that there isn't going to be a teamfight during the cooldown duration or if you need to slow a push. Even if you know there isn't going to fight, you shouldn't random ult just to farm. Your teammates could often have otherwise cleaned up those lanes (which your ult will clear somewhat inefficiently as it won't lasthit all the creeps and won't give anyone XP for those creeps it doesn't kill), and ulting is pretty much guaranteed to push out all the lanes (again, making them harder to farm). You should ult either when you need the damage in a gank/fight, or when you WANT all the lanes to push out (when you're pushing against the enemy, or you need to counterpush.
This is mostly true, however, if you're playing in a public game with a bunch of people whom you don't know the skill of, etc... It could be beneficial to take the little bit of extra farm for yourself by launching the ultimate. Of course, if you're playing a hardcore game with both teams playing as teams, then it might be a bad idea.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 05 2012 04:28 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:25 TheYango wrote:On September 05 2012 04:07 Nevuk wrote:
Small tip - the target struck last with the ult takes the most damage, never cast the ultimate directly onto the hero you want to damage. I've seen it do over a 1000 damage before in my death log from being the last person hit.
Larger tip - Use your ult during teamfights. Only use it to farm if you KNOW that there isn't going to be a teamfight during the cooldown duration or if you need to slow a push. Even if you know there isn't going to fight, you shouldn't random ult just to farm. Your teammates could often have otherwise cleaned up those lanes (which your ult will clear somewhat inefficiently as it won't lasthit all the creeps and won't give anyone XP for those creeps it doesn't kill), and ulting is pretty much guaranteed to push out all the lanes (again, making them harder to farm). You should ult either when you need the damage in a gank/fight, or when you WANT all the lanes to push out (when you're pushing against the enemy, or you need to counterpush. This is mostly true, however, if you're playing in a public game with a bunch of people whom you don't know the skill of, etc... It could be beneficial to take the little bit of extra farm for yourself by launching the ultimate. Of course, if you're playing a hardcore game with both teams playing as teams, then it might be a bad idea.
Even in that case, you could probably clear your lane, then TP to another lane if there's no immediate push/danger. It's more efficient for you to be there to lasthit everything and get all the gold/XP, rather than getting like half the creeps with your ult, and have the lane be pushed farther than is safe for you to farm by the time you've cleared the lane you're in right now.
Your ult just doesn't farm that efficiently on the lower ranks. It pushes VERY efficiently.
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On September 05 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:28 Eywa- wrote:On September 05 2012 04:25 TheYango wrote:On September 05 2012 04:07 Nevuk wrote:
Small tip - the target struck last with the ult takes the most damage, never cast the ultimate directly onto the hero you want to damage. I've seen it do over a 1000 damage before in my death log from being the last person hit.
Larger tip - Use your ult during teamfights. Only use it to farm if you KNOW that there isn't going to be a teamfight during the cooldown duration or if you need to slow a push. Even if you know there isn't going to fight, you shouldn't random ult just to farm. Your teammates could often have otherwise cleaned up those lanes (which your ult will clear somewhat inefficiently as it won't lasthit all the creeps and won't give anyone XP for those creeps it doesn't kill), and ulting is pretty much guaranteed to push out all the lanes (again, making them harder to farm). You should ult either when you need the damage in a gank/fight, or when you WANT all the lanes to push out (when you're pushing against the enemy, or you need to counterpush. This is mostly true, however, if you're playing in a public game with a bunch of people whom you don't know the skill of, etc... It could be beneficial to take the little bit of extra farm for yourself by launching the ultimate. Of course, if you're playing a hardcore game with both teams playing as teams, then it might be a bad idea. Even in that case, you could probably clear your lane, then TP to another lane if there's no immediate push/danger. It's more efficient for you to be there to lasthit everything and get all the gold/XP, rather than getting like half the creeps with your ult, and have the lane be pushed farther than is safe for you to farm by the time you've cleared the lane you're in right now. Your ult just doesn't farm that efficiently on the lower ranks. It pushes VERY efficiently.
Yeah, I think the best way to phrase it is that Prophet's ult should be saved for when it is needed rather than constantly spammed. This requires more map awareness but Prophet is at his best when full map awareness is being utilized.
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Level 5 daggon on NP is the way to go, best hero/build combination in the game by far
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NP is one of my favorite heroes. Main reason being that split pushing is good in nearly any line-up. An other reason is that he can jungle which is always good when your team pick 4 carries that need to be in a lane to get farm.
And he's indeed very versatile. You can gank with him and although he isn't that strong of a ganker, he doesnt needs to give up a lot do a gank because of his teleport. Just teleport to a lane, sprout and try to kill. Then TP to jungle or a lane that needs pushing and continue farming.
He can also carry quite well due to his long attack range and good farming abilities.
He's good for with his treants.
He's also a great scythe of vise carrier, because of his farming, him being INT and him being able to always get in a fight anywhere on the map.
@mokumoku: there is only one survivabilty item you should ever consider on np and that is manta style (and STR treads). Everything else on him is a waste imo.
And if you die in a teamfight without being able to do anything then you can better push a lane instead or join the teamfight later. Or buy a scythe and hex the one who kills you in teamfights.
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1. When should I get BKB on him? Currently I like to go midas guinsoo maelstrom BKB. I find that before the maelstrom, my physical dps is pretty negligible so BKB doesn't really add much.
2. How can I split push with him without getting killed and without buying lothars? I am talking about the pub games where there are no wards and you can't always see all enemy heroes on the minimap.
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buy wards and see the map
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On September 05 2012 22:29 writer22816 wrote:
1. When should I get BKB on him? Currently I like to go midas guinsoo maelstrom BKB. I find that before the maelstrom, my physical dps is pretty negligible so BKB doesn't really add much.
2. How can I split push with him without getting killed and without buying lothars? I am talking about the pub games where there are no wards and you can't always see all enemy heroes on the minimap.
BKB depends on whether you need to carry or not. I think orchid might be more suitable than sheepstick if you're going for a hard carry build (amps damage and works well with sprout), in which case my build order would probably be something like RoB -> Midas -> Treads -> Orchid -> BKB -> Desolator / Daedalus / Sheepstick / Mjollnir (pretty much luxury at this point). Maelstrom/Mjollnir should be one of your last items if you do decide to get it because its lightning proc works best with high attack speed. I prefer Daedalus / Sheep.
If you're doing a pushing build then always Desolator first for the armor reduction on towers. I don't think BKB is necessary in this case because you can just use a treant to scout around and tp out whenever someones going for you (if they smoke you probably will be chain stunned anyway) A lot of times it may be useful to carry a tp scroll with you in case you use your tp skill and happen to meet a foe before it's off cd again.
On September 05 2012 04:42 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:On September 05 2012 04:28 Eywa- wrote:On September 05 2012 04:25 TheYango wrote:On September 05 2012 04:07 Nevuk wrote:
Small tip - the target struck last with the ult takes the most damage, never cast the ultimate directly onto the hero you want to damage. I've seen it do over a 1000 damage before in my death log from being the last person hit.
Larger tip - Use your ult during teamfights. Only use it to farm if you KNOW that there isn't going to be a teamfight during the cooldown duration or if you need to slow a push. Even if you know there isn't going to fight, you shouldn't random ult just to farm. Your teammates could often have otherwise cleaned up those lanes (which your ult will clear somewhat inefficiently as it won't lasthit all the creeps and won't give anyone XP for those creeps it doesn't kill), and ulting is pretty much guaranteed to push out all the lanes (again, making them harder to farm). You should ult either when you need the damage in a gank/fight, or when you WANT all the lanes to push out (when you're pushing against the enemy, or you need to counterpush. This is mostly true, however, if you're playing in a public game with a bunch of people whom you don't know the skill of, etc... It could be beneficial to take the little bit of extra farm for yourself by launching the ultimate. Of course, if you're playing a hardcore game with both teams playing as teams, then it might be a bad idea. Even in that case, you could probably clear your lane, then TP to another lane if there's no immediate push/danger. It's more efficient for you to be there to lasthit everything and get all the gold/XP, rather than getting like half the creeps with your ult, and have the lane be pushed farther than is safe for you to farm by the time you've cleared the lane you're in right now. Your ult just doesn't farm that efficiently on the lower ranks. It pushes VERY efficiently. Yeah, I think the best way to phrase it is that Prophet's ult should be saved for when it is needed rather than constantly spammed. This requires more map awareness but Prophet is at his best when full map awareness is being utilized.
If you are constantly losing teamfights midgame it's often times a good idea to just spam it so that your lanes get pushed a bit more, could potentially buy some extra time. Normally if I have vision of 4-5 enemies on the map and we're not laning anymore I'll just pop it.
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My favorite Nature's Prophet build:
The idea behind this build is to be strong in the first 10 minutes, which leads to better ganking/farming and pushing. You get int and mana regen, instead of barely getting out a midas. With that strong early start and an Orchid you can be more dominant on the map, leading to better performance and farm than the midas.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/frwcv.jpg)
You go jungle, get lots of mana regen from the components from int treads and orchid. Using that mana you farm forest real fast and have mana to tp, kill and push. Afterwards you'll have mana to continue jungling. You should have Orchid+Treads at around minute 14 if you jungle efficiently and help push/kill.
Now when you are in a fight, you bring a 5 second silence, much better than a hand of midas or an urn. The orchid helps with your damage output. Next up I usually go for Scythe of Vyse, which is doable around 20-27 min. Suddenly in a teamfight you have a ton of control instead of just auto attack damage.
I transition into Manta Style for easy pushing, some defense and kill potential. If the game isn't over yet add in a MKB and Deadalus for highest damage, cancelling tps with some luck and true strike.
As soon as you get your orchid, but especially as you get more items, you are able to solo kill. Teleport in close, right behind a tree, open with silence+sprout (depending on enemy hero/items) and start hitting.
Optional item would be a Desolator if your team has plenty of control and needs a damage dealer. This would be your first item after orchid, replacing MKB in your build.
In some extreme cases, once you have a full inventory, you can replace your treads with Satanic as damage/survivability will be more important than move speed.
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EPT
