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[Hero] Invoker - Page 11

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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edgemega
Profile Joined August 2012
United States239 Posts
February 28 2014 02:40 GMT
#201
i dont see why orchid just has to be for the ghost walk cold snap build. Orchid is overall a good item especially on int heroes and has good utility. You dont just have to ghost walk and cold snap, and its universal damage amplify so it even amplifies your emp tornado combos as long as you dont tornado them when its about to wear off.

Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
February 28 2014 12:33 GMT
#202
On February 28 2014 11:40 edgemega wrote:
i dont see why orchid just has to be for the ghost walk cold snap build. Orchid is overall a good item especially on int heroes and has good utility. You dont just have to ghost walk and cold snap, and its universal damage amplify so it even amplifies your emp tornado combos as long as you dont tornado them when its about to wear off.



It's a great utility item to have. The ability to silence any hero is always great to have, especially for a hero like invoker. I think he's best when played as a super utility style hero, and the current quas wex trend suits him the most. I don't necessarily have to be going around getting lots of kills and carrying, as long as I'm using spells correctly when needed in different situations, I'm happy. Orchid just messes up a lot of heroes who would otherwise have methods of escaping, or who cause big issues in team fights.
Forever the best, IMMvp <3
rebdomine
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
6040 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 05:46:39
April 30 2014 05:46 GMT
#203
Going over iceiceice's and Reso1ution's Invoker games in SL9 recently, and just had a couple of questions.

1. iceiceice seems to prefer going naked Boots and go straight BoTs after necro 3. Reso1ution seems to prefer getting PTs before working on Necro. Even in situations where momentum was clearly on Empire's side, Reso1ution would play it like this. Is this simply personal preference or is there math behind this that I am missing?

2. How many points of Wex do you need before pouring in points into maxing Invoke? I've seen iceiceice play it out with just 1 point in Wex, and there was a game he went 2 points of Wex. Reso1ution seemed to favor just keeping it at 1 point.

3. It seems like the tendency is to split push with a QE Invoker and just using Sunstrike to assist with the action on other parts of the map while Invoker has not yet maxed Exort (hence no points in Wex yet). Would it be advisable to put a point in Wex earlier (before maxing exort, but after double forge) and participate in fights if the team is a bit on the backfoot? Or is it generally better to split push and take objectives to infuse a bit of gold into the rest of the team? I am not sure if maybe the lack of levels will keep you from really contributing in fights as you may not have the mana pool to actually throw out everything you have.
"Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right!"
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 11:17:06
April 30 2014 11:09 GMT
#204
On April 30 2014 14:46 rebdomine wrote:
Going over iceiceice's and Reso1ution's Invoker games in SL9 recently, and just had a couple of questions.

1. iceiceice seems to prefer going naked Boots and go straight BoTs after necro 3. Reso1ution seems to prefer getting PTs before working on Necro. Even in situations where momentum was clearly on Empire's side, Reso1ution would play it like this. Is this simply personal preference or is there math behind this that I am missing?

2. How many points of Wex do you need before pouring in points into maxing Invoke? I've seen iceiceice play it out with just 1 point in Wex, and there was a game he went 2 points of Wex. Reso1ution seemed to favor just keeping it at 1 point.

3. It seems like the tendency is to split push with a QE Invoker and just using Sunstrike to assist with the action on other parts of the map while Invoker has not yet maxed Exort (hence no points in Wex yet). Would it be advisable to put a point in Wex earlier (before maxing exort, but after double forge) and participate in fights if the team is a bit on the backfoot? Or is it generally better to split push and take objectives to infuse a bit of gold into the rest of the team? I am not sure if maybe the lack of levels will keep you from really contributing in fights as you may not have the mana pool to actually throw out everything you have.



One point wex early only if you absolutely have to teamfight and need to have extra dmg with Chaos Meteor/Deaf Blast. Remember, you're not gonna do much else outside of casting 2/3 spells if you went Exort early, so you better be on point with dropping the Chaos/Deaf Blast quickly.

Iceiceice plays with a team with alot better coordination and space creators than Reso1ution does (not saying Empire sucks or anything, just that in comparison, Mushi and Burning have a much bigger presence on the map by reputation alone). Having Mushi/Burning alone puts alot of pressure on teams to shut down both of them, thus opening up the offlane into a 1v1 situation for iceiceice. He gets alot more freedom on choice of items than other players because of this. There's a reason why occasionally, iceiceice is more farmed than mushi and has like a 600 gpm Centaur Warchief. You'll notice that in alot of iceiceice's games, he's typically way more farmed than alot of other offlaners from other teams.
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
April 30 2014 18:51 GMT
#205
How do you play out exort Invoker offlane?

More specifically, how often do I use forged spirits and how, is it viable in pubs, is there a scenario where I need to go quas-wex instead, how do I level, and what items do I get?
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
April 30 2014 18:59 GMT
#206
I think you want to be QW offlane for ghost walk, for early contribution and for mobility/regen in lane.

I mean, if you HAVE to offlane invoker. Ideally you don't.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
April 30 2014 22:07 GMT
#207
On April 30 2014 20:09 superstartran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 14:46 rebdomine wrote:
Going over iceiceice's and Reso1ution's Invoker games in SL9 recently, and just had a couple of questions.

1. iceiceice seems to prefer going naked Boots and go straight BoTs after necro 3. Reso1ution seems to prefer getting PTs before working on Necro. Even in situations where momentum was clearly on Empire's side, Reso1ution would play it like this. Is this simply personal preference or is there math behind this that I am missing?

2. How many points of Wex do you need before pouring in points into maxing Invoke? I've seen iceiceice play it out with just 1 point in Wex, and there was a game he went 2 points of Wex. Reso1ution seemed to favor just keeping it at 1 point.

3. It seems like the tendency is to split push with a QE Invoker and just using Sunstrike to assist with the action on other parts of the map while Invoker has not yet maxed Exort (hence no points in Wex yet). Would it be advisable to put a point in Wex earlier (before maxing exort, but after double forge) and participate in fights if the team is a bit on the backfoot? Or is it generally better to split push and take objectives to infuse a bit of gold into the rest of the team? I am not sure if maybe the lack of levels will keep you from really contributing in fights as you may not have the mana pool to actually throw out everything you have.



One point wex early only if you absolutely have to teamfight and need to have extra dmg with Chaos Meteor/Deaf Blast. Remember, you're not gonna do much else outside of casting 2/3 spells if you went Exort early, so you better be on point with dropping the Chaos/Deaf Blast quickly.

Iceiceice plays with a team with alot better coordination and space creators than Reso1ution does (not saying Empire sucks or anything, just that in comparison, Mushi and Burning have a much bigger presence on the map by reputation alone). Having Mushi/Burning alone puts alot of pressure on teams to shut down both of them, thus opening up the offlane into a 1v1 situation for iceiceice. He gets alot more freedom on choice of items than other players because of this. There's a reason why occasionally, iceiceice is more farmed than mushi and has like a 600 gpm Centaur Warchief. You'll notice that in alot of iceiceice's games, he's typically way more farmed than alot of other offlaners from other teams.


doesn't icex3 start a lot of his invoker games from the middle? i have seen ones from the side as well, but in the sl9 games that rebdo is referencing i think he played a lot from the middle.
Hey! Listen!
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
May 01 2014 06:43 GMT
#208
Iceiceice used to solo offlane with invoker, but I think dk sort of adapted their style with mushi at the offlane centaur, or they go aggro tri and mushi safelane solo, or aggro tri iceiceice safelane solo.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34492 Posts
May 01 2014 07:04 GMT
#209
DK do whatever they feel like doing on a whim.

Regarding when to put additional points in Invoke, I believe it boils down to personal preference. Do you want a slightly faster Invoke cooldown or do you want slightly stronger spells? As long as you have level 4 Invoke by level 17 (so if you're sticking on one point as long as possible, you need to start putting points in at level 15 + 16), it's up to you.
Moderator
Zenniv
Profile Joined September 2011
United States545 Posts
May 02 2014 03:04 GMT
#210
On May 01 2014 16:04 Firebolt145 wrote:
DK do whatever they feel like doing on a whim.

Regarding when to put additional points in Invoke, I believe it boils down to personal preference. Do you want a slightly faster Invoke cooldown or do you want slightly stronger spells? As long as you have level 4 Invoke by level 17 (so if you're sticking on one point as long as possible, you need to start putting points in at level 15 + 16), it's up to you.


Yea, there is no point putting points into invoke for exort builds before 14-16ish. You have 3 core spells, Fire Spirits/Cold Snap ready to go, and sunstrike ready to be invoked for ganks. Ghost walk, Deafening Blast and Ice Wall as subspells to invoke in emergency situations (they also all cost a billion mana).

If you were quas/wex, then you really only need 2 spells + coldsnap ready to be invoked, once again even if you have a point in exort other spells would be terrible and really bad for mana.
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
May 22 2014 10:21 GMT
#211
QE mid item builds this patch? No more necronomicon?
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
May 22 2014 10:27 GMT
#212
Invoker in every pub game I swear. Necro is still strong for QE imo
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
May 22 2014 13:53 GMT
#213
Well he's fun to play Yeah I guess, it's just that in games where you're on the backfoot until lategame, I find myself using necrobook almost exclusively for teamfights. And although it's decent there, I just feel that other items could have done more.
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
GiveMeYourtTots
Profile Joined May 2014
990 Posts
May 22 2014 19:34 GMT
#214
I know everything is situational, but if you had yo go either q/e or q/w for the rest of your Invoker games, which one would you choose?
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
May 22 2014 20:04 GMT
#215
QE man. Slow but heavy artillery.
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
May 22 2014 20:17 GMT
#216
QE because landing sunstrikes makes my e-penis longer.
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
May 23 2014 08:11 GMT
#217
For someone just getting into learning Invoker (I play mostly support hereoes), which build is most beginner-friendly as a starting point?
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-23 09:19:04
May 23 2014 09:18 GMT
#218
Just go QE and be a DPS monster.
Get 4 points in Quas and 4 points in Exort asap so that you get two forged spirits. You only need lvl 1 invoke early, a) because you only really need three spells early-mid game (cold snap, sunstrike and forged spirits) and b) you're new to invoker so you won't be invoking that fast anyway. Then finish maxing Exort, and start levelling Wex around lvl 11 or so, for meteor and deafening blast, and also ghost walk for emergencies.

I go phase/treads, force staff then necro3 and hex. I don't think the aghanims will benefit you very much as a new player. After hex, it's really what your team needs, like AC, daedalus, mkb etc.... you might need a BKB too.

In teamfights, just make sure you have your forge spirits summoned, pop your necrobook, choose a target and cold snap them, then watch as they're perpetually stunned. Try and drop a meteor on grouped up enemies, followed by a deafening blast to stun them and keep them in the meteor. Ice wall is very hard to place correctly, but it's such a good spell. You can also invoke and use Alacrity on yourself or another carry on your team. Sunstrike is good for picking off stragglers at the end. Honestly, most new invokers just run around with cold snap & forge spirits and are effective enough. Then as they get more confident, they start adding other spells to their repetoire.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
May 23 2014 18:11 GMT
#219
Thanks, that sounds like a good place to start.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
May 23 2014 18:17 GMT
#220
Small trick: You can also alacrity catapults or forge spirits or necro minions to speed up your push while keeping yourself at a safe distance. Remember that catapults deal like 200% dmg to buildings or something.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
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