On December 20 2012 10:44 Ottoxlol wrote: this isnt windrunner...
Alleria is the person who made the guide's username. The guide is on Gondar the Bounty Hunter.
I noticed that you mention vladmir's offering to be built after your core items. Is there ever a time where one would consider getting vlads after phase boots as most pros are doing nowadays?
noobs also copy pros by buying bottle and doesnt use it properly. and what pros are we talking about here thats getting vlads after phase.
Here's one example. I've just been seeing it crop up a lot lately as a 'standard pro build' even if they aren't shut down early. The reasoning is that the armorit provides is great, and really strengthens bounty hunter's already great armor. Also, it allows Gondar to not have to go back to base very often; the mana regen is great, and the life steal is okay.
I've been seeing it crop up with drums, and other aura based items mostly.
see what they try to accomplish with vlads is make their teamfight slightly stronger. in pubs you would rather be more of a killer than an aura provider, you have to try to control the game with your presence.
On December 20 2012 21:50 Laserist wrote: Vlad is always bad early since it contributes most of the time as percentage. You need raw dmg/attack speed to use it in full potential. Just don't get it early or leave it to the 3rd or 4th position. I just suggest to buy it to lycan and ursa early, because of roshan and effective jungling.
bh is usually played as a 3, so by your post he SHOULD be getting vlads It's different if you're playing in a pub (in which case you should go for more individual items probably) vs playing with people you know and are comfortable with, in which case you can get more usage out of the vlads by grouping up faster
On December 20 2012 21:50 Laserist wrote: Vlad is always bad early since it contributes most of the time as percentage. You need raw dmg/attack speed to use it in full potential. Just don't get it early or leave it to the 3rd or 4th position. I just suggest to buy it to lycan and ursa early, because of roshan and effective jungling.
bh is usually played as a 3, so by your post he SHOULD be getting vlads It's different if you're playing in a pub (in which case you should go for more individual items probably) vs playing with people you know and are comfortable with, in which case you can get more usage out of the vlads by grouping up faster
Np. My post is entirely about not getting vlads to BH, at least in early game. This is purely how vlads works, which contributes percentage based and you need some raw material to improve. It might be IAS, damage, stats etc..
About position I wrote 3rd OR 4th, which means leave it to the hero that below you in terms of farm. You can play BH from 1st to 4th depending on your strategy. It would be ideal in every role, but doesn't matter. Early game BH needs some raw damage due to Jinada and maybe some survivibility. Vlad doesn't contribute these needs. Don't come with damage aura pls.
When playing BH in offlane and facing against an enemy jungler I tend to leave the lane and harrass the enemy jungler as hard as I can. Since junglers are the most underganked heroes in pub games you do your team a big favor keeping him low, as well as being able to steal a creep or two. Maybe even catching the enemy jungler offguard
On December 21 2012 02:46 Zumm wrote: When playing BH in offlane and facing against an enemy jungler I tend to leave the lane and harrass the enemy jungler as hard as I can. Since junglers are the most underganked heroes in pub games you do your team a big favor keeping him low, as well as being able to steal a creep or two. Maybe even catching the enemy jungler offguard
you're also doing the enemy team a big favor by being underleveled.
On December 21 2012 02:46 Zumm wrote: When playing BH in offlane and facing against an enemy jungler I tend to leave the lane and harrass the enemy jungler as hard as I can. Since junglers are the most underganked heroes in pub games you do your team a big favor keeping him low, as well as being able to steal a creep or two. Maybe even catching the enemy jungler offguard
you're also doing the enemy team a big favor by being underleveled.
If they have rev wards/dust and the lane is pushed its often too dangerous to go into lanes anyways, rotating into jungle with the potential to gank mid is one of the best things to do in that situations.
the guide seems mostly fine, the main issues I can see is the lack of what to do when you're zoned close to 100% of the time, which happens quite often in higher-level games. As others have stated, the lack of lv2 WW and at least lv2 (and oftentimes lv4) shuriken are fairly major issues with the build and should at least be mentioned. You also won't be going phase 100% of the time, you'll find tranq very useful in many situations.
On December 21 2012 09:24 how2TL wrote: If a creep is denied between 1000 and 1200 range (1200 range being the exp range otherwise), I thought you don't get any exp at all?
Not saying you're wrong, but I've never heard of this mechanic.
drums + bottle is generally a waste of gold. also you should mention to new bh players they need to check other heroes inventory constantly. and suiciding for a track kill is almost always worth it.
Interesting. Considering it increases attack speed and movement speed, I find Drums to be a great item most of the time. Since you're going to be participating in fights more often than not, Drums benefits your team immensely in my opinion. I'm always on the fence about getting Bottle, but I find that in games where I don't, I won't be able to help out my team as much (mana constraints).
On December 21 2012 09:24 how2TL wrote: If a creep is denied between 1000 and 1200 range (1200 range being the exp range otherwise), I thought you don't get any exp at all?
Yeah, I've never heard of this either. It would be interesting though if this was actually true. I've always thought that as long as you're in experience range you'll get experience; doesn't matter deny or no deny.
On December 21 2012 09:24 how2TL wrote: If a creep is denied between 1000 and 1200 range (1200 range being the exp range otherwise), I thought you don't get any exp at all?
Thanks for the info, I missed that mechanic and seems to be very important for offlane heroes.
On December 20 2012 11:45 aintz wrote: drums + bottle is generally a waste of gold. also you should mention to new bh players they need to check other heroes inventory constantly. and suiciding for a track kill is almost always worth it.
If you ain't getting Drums + Bottle, what do you suggest? Please don't say BF.
On December 20 2012 11:45 aintz wrote: drums + bottle is generally a waste of gold. also you should mention to new bh players they need to check other heroes inventory constantly. and suiciding for a track kill is almost always worth it.
If you ain't getting Drums + Bottle, what do you suggest? Please don't say BF.
Urn is very good on BH, and for midgame trying things like necrobook can be surprisingly effective
On December 20 2012 10:44 Ottoxlol wrote: this isnt windrunner...
Alleria is the person who made the guide's username. The guide is on Gondar the Bounty Hunter.
I noticed that you mention vladmir's offering to be built after your core items. Is there ever a time where one would consider getting vlads after phase boots as most pros are doing nowadays?
noobs also copy pros by buying bottle and doesnt use it properly. and what pros are we talking about here thats getting vlads after phase.
LightOfHeaven almost always gets Vlads as first item when he plays BH
On December 20 2012 11:45 aintz wrote: drums + bottle is generally a waste of gold. also you should mention to new bh players they need to check other heroes inventory constantly. and suiciding for a track kill is almost always worth it.
If you ain't getting Drums + Bottle, what do you suggest? Please don't say BF.
Why would battle fury not be good?
I find that as soon as I put on Perseverance, I never have to worry about Mana or Health, so adding 65 bonus damage and 35% AoE damage is a nice thing for me. Especially because after that I can farm enough gold for monkeybar and deadalus in no time.
I am totaly new to dota but I love the Bounty hunter playstyle.
On December 20 2012 11:45 aintz wrote: drums + bottle is generally a waste of gold. also you should mention to new bh players they need to check other heroes inventory constantly. and suiciding for a track kill is almost always worth it.
If you ain't getting Drums + Bottle, what do you suggest? Please don't say BF.
Why would battle fury not be good?
I find that as soon as I put on Perseverance, I never have to worry about Mana or Health, so adding 65 bonus damage and 35% AoE damage is a nice thing for me. Especially because after that I can farm enough gold for monkeybar and deadalus in no time.
I am totaly new to dota but I love the Bounty hunter playstyle.
Generally Bounty Hunter excels at ganking / sniping squishies (which provides you with gold and your teammates with the extra track kill gold) rather than farming big items. It's okay to play BH as a hard carry, but it's not optimal and there are better heroes for that job.
On December 20 2012 11:45 aintz wrote: drums + bottle is generally a waste of gold. also you should mention to new bh players they need to check other heroes inventory constantly. and suiciding for a track kill is almost always worth it.
If you ain't getting Drums + Bottle, what do you suggest? Please don't say BF.
Why would battle fury not be good?
I find that as soon as I put on Perseverance, I never have to worry about Mana or Health, so adding 65 bonus damage and 35% AoE damage is a nice thing for me. Especially because after that I can farm enough gold for monkeybar and deadalus in no time.
I am totaly new to dota but I love the Bounty hunter playstyle.
Generally Bounty Hunter excels at ganking / sniping squishies (which provides you with gold and your teammates with the extra track kill gold) rather than farming big items. It's okay to play BH as a hard carry, but it's not optimal and there are better heroes for that job.
Okay so considering I only play Pubs at the moment I don't have to feel bad about enjoying the BF, but should be prepared to not get it in favour of higher +damage items, if playing with a dedicated 5 man team?
Bounty Hunter is never (well... should never) picked or played as a 1st position farming hero. You should not be farming creeps, you should be farming heroes with track, leaving all the creeps for your 1st position carry.
Battlefury excels in accelerating the speed at which a hero farms creeps, not heroes. For regen, get a bottle instead (even if another teammate already has one) and bottlecrow if you can't get the runes. Get drums, BKB and desolator and be infinitely more useful to your team than if you had gotten a battlefury.
There are actually certain game states that do require Battle Fury (enemy just 5-manning, rest of your team isn't strong enough for you to win 5v5s--can use Battle Fury to build up a gold lead from the fact that they're always 5-man), but it's quite situational.
First up, awesome guide. I'm starting to play offlane bounty hunter a bit more and this was a great read! However I was missing 1 thing, or rather 1 item: Poor Man's Shield. Should I not get this item on bounty hunter? Or are there specific circumstances where I should get it? Should I get it before or after boots?
EPT
