On December 29 2013 06:21 ArchmageKruzer wrote: for early jungle, it's often times actually more efficient to kill the larger creep before the smaller creep, because 1) the creep usually has some benificial aura (like centaur swiftness aura or wildwing armor aura) and 2. creep dps is actually skewed heavily towards the larger creep. This video explains it very well.
Does not require watching a long video! The verdict is, it depends on camp. A notable exception is the harpies easy camp, where it's noticeably better to kill the weak harpies first. But it's good to know these ratios to optimize your jungling target selection.
Int toggle is pretty useful if you're not going straight to necro I guess and treads are just generally nice although a case could be made for necro first I guess.
This is really cool. I've only played against bots so far trying this, but it's working out awesome. I think I'll turn off sound though if I'm solo que.
Necro 3 is pretty much a core for lycan. The synergy from his ult and howl works amazingly. All you do is make the team try to chase you down while they fail to realize your minions are eating away their HP. And there's always rat dota also.
Read your guide, and IMO pushing at level 10-12 is wayyy late. As soon as I turn five with level 3 wolves, I join mid lane and go for that tower.
On December 29 2013 09:30 winterymint wrote: Necro 3 is pretty much a core for lycan. The synergy from his ult and howl works amazingly. All you do is make the team try to chase you down while they fail to realize your minions are eating away their HP. And there's always rat dota also.
Read your guide, and IMO pushing at level 10-12 is wayyy late. As soon as I turn five with level 3 wolves, I join mid lane and go for that tower.
Strongly disagree. What kind of level does that not result in death due to TPs at because it certainly doesn't at mine? You'd have to waste a full 60 seconds going to fountain and then mid to do that anyway which is big early game. You're jungling on like 20% hp and 0 mana, you can't just cruise over to mid, any ranged hero will just right click you and you die and if the wolves die to the tower you're fucked until you go fountain because you can't afford new ones.
Basically that's an awful idea and a good way to end up underleveled and unable to play your part in the mid game.
As for necro 3, howl works whoever gets it, you don't have to hold necro 3 just because it works well with howl. If you're playing hard carry there are frankly much better items you need first and you certainly don't want it late game when you're 6 slotted and every slot counts. Split push only while the real carry gets the real items, sure. They have mirana, sure. But core, not with this style.
You can push a T1 with the safe lane when you get Vlad's provided your safe lane has the right heroes for it, but that's pretty much it. Pre-Vlad it's not worth it to damage your own tempo trying to force a tower too early.
I don't know how you're actually getting mid tower down like that unless the enemy straight-up abandons it or you're playing with a mid who could probably have taken that tower themselves anyway.
there's a happy medium, while you shouldn't be pushing anything at level 5, doing nothing until level 10 and even contemplating delaying ulti is certainly not the way to go. in most safelane it's a simple enough matter to run in, kill whoever, and take a tower or two the instant you hit level 6
On December 29 2013 01:42 Kupon3ss wrote: if you're going to sucide and go largely clarityless you should consider bottle
Read the guide, we suicide once before 600 gold. After then you can go pure farming without any downtime with boots and all gold spent on necessary items. There is no way another method can be faster.
bottle in place of basi is faster roshan is also doable with just treads vlads bottle
so if your plan is to start with basi and get quelling, starting quelling and grabbing a bottle will lead to marginally faster clear times and the ability to controll runes, and significantly more mana for the first 10 minutes
Bottle is overrated on lycan, you pay 600 (now 650) gold for an item that gives you 210 mana. Kill yourself and you get 3 sets of wolves, 145 x 3 = 435 mana. It also takes a lot of time not hitting creeps.
And I'd complete medallion before vlads and boots.
Ogre camps are awful for exp if you're stuck on them early. Small camps give as much exp as ogre camps and don't take nearly as long to kill.
No stout is interesting, it was necessary before 6.79, but now the +armor means your suicide timing is wrong.
On December 29 2013 15:01 igotmyown wrote: And I'd complete medallion before vlads and boots.
Medallion loses the push T1 tower option of level 6 + Vlad's timing. In other aspects, Medal first is fine, but that T1 push option is probably one of the major reasons why Vlad first is favored. You can't take a tower with Medal+Basi, but you can with Vlad's.
Is it weird that I go stout, tango, ROP then finish basi ring to be disassembled for medallion before vlads? Also I get phase boots instead of treads for easier chasing through creeps and damage synergy with medallion. Yes I know your ult gives you max move speed. I still get to Roshan at around 13ish minutes
kwark, how does you method compare to the usual stout+qb+tangos?
I can usually get out of the woods at around 11(+2mins tops, depends on spawns and if the enemy is roaming your jungle) with vlads and midas, I dont even bother with roshan.
The greed eventually pays off in 5-7 minutes, especially if you're given space to take some towers.
Other than that, since the last patch Lycan turned from the most frustrating jungler to an absolute pub stomp hero, got 65% winrate over ~40 games with him. Its just retarded how fast he can push towers and how well he does in team fights
I'm probably shit at lycan, but every time I face the easy camp with the 5 kobolds or whatever, I can never finish it before 1 min. Is this due to me being too slow at running from base, or should I kill them in some special order? Seriously, I've had them spawn first like 5 times now, and the best time I've got a clear at was at like 01:02 ;_;
On December 29 2013 19:57 SKYFISH__ wrote: kwark, how does you method compare to the usual stout+qb+tangos?
I can usually get out of the woods at around 11(+2mins tops, depends on spawns and if the enemy is roaming your jungle) with vlads and midas, I dont even bother with roshan.
The greed eventually pays off in 5-7 minutes, especially if you're given space to take some towers.
Other than that, since the last patch Lycan turned from the most frustrating jungler to an absolute pub stomp hero, got 65% winrate over ~40 games with him. Its just retarded how fast he can push towers and how well he does in team fights
Way, way faster than stout + tango build. You gotta understand that with my build you can keep going in the jungle constantly while spending 0 gold on things that aren't needed. By grabbing two quick mana items you allow yourself to tank with wolves which is huge.
Midas seems like a terrible idea to me. You don't have time to wait for it to payoff, Lycan isn't a PL or an AM, Lycan gets big at 12 minutes and if he doesn't get a lot of shit done then he begins to fall off compared to harder carries. Also your item slots are really valuable, you're gonna have to sell that midas pretty early for something else. Roshan is huge, it lets you be way more aggressive pushing towers, the gold bonus for the team is big and you'll generally get a level and a half from it. If you can take Rosh you must take Rosh imo.
On December 29 2013 20:33 Scalepad wrote: I'm probably shit at lycan, but every time I face the easy camp with the 5 kobolds or whatever, I can never finish it before 1 min. Is this due to me being too slow at running from base, or should I kill them in some special order? Seriously, I've had them spawn first like 5 times now, and the best time I've got a clear at was at like 01:02 ;_;
Just being bad with Lycan. You should get there about 32 if you make sure you don't block it, focus fire with your wolves, and after both are low pull back to make sure all aggro is on Lycan. As long as you switch aggro quickly using the attack move trick you should easily finish in time to have it respawn. The slowest is actually ghosts imo.
On December 29 2013 19:57 SKYFISH__ wrote: kwark, how does you method compare to the usual stout+qb+tangos?
I can usually get out of the woods at around 11(+2mins tops, depends on spawns and if the enemy is roaming your jungle) with vlads and midas, I dont even bother with roshan.
The greed eventually pays off in 5-7 minutes, especially if you're given space to take some towers.
Other than that, since the last patch Lycan turned from the most frustrating jungler to an absolute pub stomp hero, got 65% winrate over ~40 games with him. Its just retarded how fast he can push towers and how well he does in team fights
Way, way faster than stout + tango build. You gotta understand that with my build you can keep going in the jungle constantly while spending 0 gold on things that aren't needed. By grabbing two quick mana items you allow yourself to tank with wolves which is huge.
Midas seems like a terrible idea to me. You don't have time to wait for it to payoff, Lycan isn't a PL or an AM, Lycan gets big at 12 minutes and if he doesn't get a lot of shit done then he begins to fall off compared to harder carries. Also your item slots are really valuable, you're gonna have to sell that midas pretty early for something else. Roshan is huge, it lets you be way more aggressive pushing towers, the gold bonus for the team is big and you'll generally get a level and a half from it. If you can take Rosh you must take Rosh imo.
hmm, I just tried it in a bot match, bot variations. I honestly havent jungled Lycan with basi before, I think I've tried it once and it was super annoying how dependent your jungling was on keeping the wolves alive.
got the same items at the same times (~7 vlads, 11 midas, no boots), but with the stout+qb one i was lvl 9 whereas with the basi build I was 8. which doesnt make sense, maybe it was the camps. I do suspect I may be able to get Vlads earlier with the basi build though,as I did fuck up with the wolves on the small and mid camps, would be nice if anyone can confirm whats the usual time for vlads.
anyways, the midas thing is a personal preference, often times doing Rosh in pubs is just too much of a hassle - gotta buy wards, gotta smoke, the enemy team are camping the Rosh pit constantly around 11, yada yada yada
EPT
