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SoCal8908 Posts
On December 15 2014 11:33 ahw wrote:
did you skip a qb? i see lots of people try to skip QB on tb and it seems like a real bad idea. 32% dmg on illusions is legit
his base dmg isn't too bad naturally, but QB is usually a good farming tool on him for more reliable last hitting, but more importantly, farm rotations.
especially radiant side or going from the dire t2 medium camp to the hard camp, shaving time off your rotations by cutting through the trees is quite valuable. it is also useful if youre trying to bottleneck some melee creeps and tank one at a time earlier.
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I can see the argument that treads is very efficient and good IF you can get free farm in lane quickly. My problem is in my bracket of 4600 it's incredibly hard to get the longlane hero to leave the lane even if they are getting little exp and little farm. It generally takes 10minutes or so to actually get them to leave, and by then you almost have yasha and most of the efficiency of treads is lost.
I would add it into my list of item decisions though, IF I'm getting free farm very early then go treads
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SoCal8908 Posts
On December 16 2014 05:44 Varth wrote:
I can see the argument that treads is very efficient and good IF you can get free farm in lane quickly. My problem is in my bracket of 4600 it's incredibly hard to get the longlane hero to leave the lane even if they are getting little exp and little farm. It generally takes 10minutes or so to actually get them to leave, and by then you almost have yasha and most of the efficiency of treads is lost.
I would add it into my list of item decisions though, IF I'm getting free farm very early then go treads
I think you're viewing the situation backwards. if you're not getting the best farm in the world, you get treads instead of brown boots yasha bc you need to have the intermediate item.
otherwise, if you're free farm, yasha into travels into whatever you want.
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I was mainly referring to Vers post about how likes to get treads then he immediately jungles after just treads and im assuming a pms and qb. Considering you can get those items at like minute 4 I was stating that its not realistic to not have contested farm at that time.
Overall it sounds like treads isn't ever a BAD decision, there may be a few cases where it's not completely optimal in my view, but overall you won't ever regret getting treads early
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On December 16 2014 04:25 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 11:33 ahw wrote:
did you skip a qb? i see lots of people try to skip QB on tb and it seems like a real bad idea. 32% dmg on illusions is legit his base dmg isn't too bad naturally, but QB is usually a good farming tool on him for more reliable last hitting, but more importantly, farm rotations. especially radiant side or going from the dire t2 medium camp to the hard camp, shaving time off your rotations by cutting through the trees is quite valuable. it is also useful if youre trying to bottleneck some melee creeps and tank one at a time earlier.
its worth getting qb and keeping it because 32% dmg from illus vs creeps scales amazing... you dont need it for main hero last hits, but your illusions need it pretty bad. its worth keeping for as long as possible, especially if you are doing the manta/skadi style without rad. its really good at pushing lanes out
the farming shit is good too but its just so good on his illusions. 60% base, and then 32% on top of that.. something like 80% dmg illusions to creeps
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I go jungle right after Aquila if I have free farm. You don't need Treads to jungle and there's no way the increased jungling speed is going to make up for the delayed BoTs. Treads is viable if the enemy has a lineup that heavily punishes split pushing or has terrible early anti-push and you're looking to roll them over early with the help of your team. Getting Treads because you have freefarm is bad. Default to BoTs and adapt depending on line-ups.
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I'm a fan of BoTs rushing as much as the next guy but I'm watching RTZ/EE get treads alllllllll the time. It's like an extra 15% hp when you need it, it's not trivial.
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SoCal8908 Posts
how do you guys deal with storm spirit as this hero? i decided early that the only way we were gonna win was if i was able to rat, so i went for a radiance build after i got treads. i feel like i could have rushed the radiance without treads maybe, but the storm was getting big so i was scared without the extra hp.
is diffusal good for just manfighting the fucker?
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On March 10 2015 10:10 BluemoonSC wrote:
how do you guys deal with storm spirit as this hero? i decided early that the only way we were gonna win was if i was able to rat, so i went for a radiance build after i got treads. i feel like i could have rushed the radiance without treads maybe, but the storm was getting big so i was scared without the extra hp.
is diffusal good for just manfighting the fucker?
Well, getting radiance was your first error, you have almost no HP against a hero that is masterful at bursting people.
Second, your best bet against storm is probably just rushing bkb after yasha or something and just hoping that by the time it will stop saving you, you will have enough HP to just sunder motherfucker after he spends most of his mana.
And last: best bet is not picking TB anyway before last pick, like, seriously.
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SoCal8908 Posts
it was a random, and i somehow enjoy the hero. radiance wasn't a huge issue bc i was farming well (up until my first death..set back the recipe a bit..but at that point i was committed). we had a silencer so i felt confident getting it to rat. i'm still standing by the decision i made, it's just unfortunate my silencer would silence 5s into the engagement every time, i suppose.
my illusions were pushing well, i was farming well, but he was always an item ahead bc he was farming my supports. we were still in the game when i got my manta and skadi as well. you think that i coulda squeezed a bkb in there before completing the manta and just gone ham? or maybe yasha bkb sny?
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On March 10 2015 10:36 BluemoonSC wrote:
it was a random, and i somehow enjoy the hero. radiance wasn't a huge issue bc i was farming well (up until my first death..set back the recipe a bit..but at that point i was committed). we had a silencer so i felt confident getting it to rat. i'm still standing by the decision i made, it's just unfortunate my silencer would silence 5s into the engagement every time, i suppose.
my illusions were pushing well, i was farming well, but he was always an item ahead bc he was farming my supports. we were still in the game when i got my manta and skadi as well. you think that i coulda squeezed a bkb in there before completing the manta and just gone ham? or maybe yasha bkb sny?
See, my point is that on a hero that farms as well as TB even without radiance, buying radiance most of the time is just delaying your manta-skadi and it is even worse after illusion damage taken nerf. As for bkb, bkb is obvious a judgement to be made based on the game itself. If your problem is getting picked off by storm on regular basis, bkb is probably the only valid solution to it. Well, another skadi could be too, but whatever.
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United States2186 Posts
This is a pretty complex question. A lot depends on the Storm's team and their ability to ward or scout for him (i,e bounty hunter, riki). Storm is a weird encounter for TB as he's one of the few heroes that can ignore your illusion "shield" and solo kill you like Shadowblade Slark, but he also needs to stay items ahead of TB to actually kill him and that is extremely hard. Plus Storm requires at least 2 major items to have the mana to liberally flash farm multiple waves and still have full for long jumps. So in this respect if you can get a relatively undisturbed radiance timing while your team collapses, you can keep forcing storm to tp to various lanes (while non radiance builds farm so much worse that it won't have the same effect). If you are afraid that he has an area of the jungle warded, just send 1 illusion to the lane and have another+manta illusions farm jungle, while only exposing your hero to safe jungle areas or when storm is forced to show in lane. Most pubs won't put down lane wards to catch a tb so if you stay in the lane well beyond a creep wave and only send illusions forth, they won't catch you easily. Remember that if your lane pressure can force storm to push lanes instead of staying off the map farming jungle and jumping 1 person anytime someone walks out alone, his threat level is much weaker. The question of treads vs brown boots aquila yasha when you're going radiance depends on your laning phase, as I mentioned in previous pages, since either way you must get bots in order to pressure lanes hard enough and force storm to reveal himself. Treads alone are not going to save you from a fed storm, though they might vs a nyx.
Say his allies are weaver, earth spirit, veno, and rubick. None of them flash farm well, so by shoving waves very hard with radi+bots you can keep the storm or at least his team from being in places where they can suddenly pick you or your allies off with no warning. It's worth it if you can trade your allies lives for additional towers and better lane equilibrium, as that makes future kills much harder for them.
If however storm's team has other heroes who can flash farm and clear your radiance illusions too easily (i,e a centaur storm bfury PA), then you won't be able to keep the pressure off you efficiently by shoving lanes/jungle and will have to win more by direct fighting, i,e no radi/bots but treads manta skadi. Normally manta -> skadi is just worse than yasha->skadi->manta but obviously manta is key vs orchid storm. BKB is extremely important vs storm but if you get it too early - assuming your allies suck and don't sit behind you with disables - you'll just bkb and storm will jump away since you don't do any damage anyway. Or he kills you straight through hex+vortex with orchid on if he's far enough ahead; bkb doesn't give enough raw hp to save you if he jumps you from the fog with enough of a lead to kill you. If however your allies have good teamfight and his don't or are heavily magic based, you can still come back from deficits with something like yasha bkb and 5man since storm cannot kill through bkb until lategame.
tb is a pretty weak hero right now though after the illusion nerf to buildings so it's an uphill fight regardless.
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On March 10 2015 10:10 BluemoonSC wrote:
how do you guys deal with storm spirit as this hero? i decided early that the only way we were gonna win was if i was able to rat, so i went for a radiance build after i got treads. i feel like i could have rushed the radiance without treads maybe, but the storm was getting big so i was scared without the extra hp.
is diffusal good for just manfighting the fucker?
i've heard alot of the western pros say that buying radiance for the hero is a waste of time.
never faced storm as terrorblade but i think you take a fast tower from the safelane and request the team to group up take the t1 and farm only come out once you get skadi+manta+aquila + threads timing then go push again.
Afterwards rinse and repeat get and item and/or roshan then push. Don't come out of the lane often cause a storm with orchid should rekt you unless you have bkb. Idk it takes more than just you alone to wint he game.
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SoCal8908 Posts
the safe lane tower was down at like 6 minutes and 63 cs at 10min, the only thing I wish I had was a pick off on the offlaner, but my silencer made questionable choices.. but I think I had just been able to purchase the recipe when a fight broke out at around 15min...so that would have been radiance after treads aquilla, which isn't bad. after the radiance I was able to apply pressure to the lanes heavily, but im thinking that if I had just skipped treads entirely, it would have been even better especially once I got bots and could really cause headaches and split them up.
I think in this regard, the radiance worked bc for a long time I was just able to dodge the storm and force their team to go back to defend frequently. the problem was, and I truly believe this, that the other 4 people on my team were highly disorganized when it came time to fight the storm, largely due to being in a party with people 1.2k mmr lower than the storm. he would just jump on someone the moment they were a pixel out of position and there would be no response from the other 3 heroes.
anyway, I guess the question really is, when I should get the bkb? the storm went orchid bloodstone hex shivas (i believe in that order), and if i had been able to deal with him, the rest was ez.
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I'm just going to go with Terrorblade is simply bad (sub-par as fuck compared to every other agi hero) in this meta mostly because supports and offlaners are so easy to play right now and often you'd be nuked to fuck.
Radiance isn't bad because of how successful Beesa and bottle style TBs were in pro games when he was relevant.
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yes he is mega bad and useless. needs another icefrog rmk
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
what would u change about him chunderboy
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SoCal8908 Posts
honestly its a shame, I do enjoy the hero. im not sure what I would change about him though..anything you do to buff the illusions makes him mega strong.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On March 10 2015 22:40 BluemoonSC wrote:
honestly its a shame, I do enjoy the hero. im not sure what I would change about him though..anything you do to buff the illusions makes him mega strong.
Hence the need for remake, tbh, he is currently a worse lycan.
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make him a non illusion hero. we have enough of those
give him some lifedrain gimmick back
give him a passive, not zeal tho
sunders fine
also meta is just a boring bad spell (idk why ppl say meta is one of the best skills in game, i think its awful 80 dmg isnt even that good and u become so slow)
compare meta to sf souls 80 dmg with slow vs 72 dmg
TA gets 80 + 200 dmg and -8 armour
Every antimage mana break even from illusions translates to 110 extra dmg if u use ulti later
etc..
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EPT
