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Lalalaland34491 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/b/bc/Elder_Titan_Large.png) Elder Titan
Well may you ask, "How did this world take its form?" Why of all the worlds in creation, has this one its strange properties, its diverse and motley collection of creatures, cultures and lore? "The answer," One whispers, "lies with the Titans."
These original progenitors were there near the Beginning--if not actual witnesses to the creation, then born with it still echoing in their ears. Stamped with the earliest energies of the universe, they wished nothing more than to continue as creators themselves. Thus they bent to the task of shaping matter to their will: hammering and heating, bending and blasting. And when matter proved less challenging than they liked, they turned their tools upon themselves, reshaping their minds and reforging their spirits until they had become beings of great endurance. Reality itself became the ultimate object of their smithing. Yet, along the way, they sometimes erred. In cases of great ambition, mistakes are unavoidable.
The one we know as the Elder Titan was a great innovator, one who studied at the forge of creation. In honing his skills, he shattered something that could never be repaired, only thrown aside. He fell into his own broken world, a shattered soul himself. There he dwelt among the jagged shards and fissured planes, along with other lost fragments that had sifted down through the cracks in the early universe. And this is why the world we know resembles an isle of castaways, survivors of a wreck now long forgotten. Forgotten, that is, by all but the One who blames himself. He spends his time forever seeking a way to accomplish the repairs, that he might rejoin the parts of his broken soul, that we and the world alike might all be mended. This is the One we know as Elder Titan.
For abilities, stats, and other information, visit this hero's Liquipedia page here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Elder_Titan
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Tips on improving as Elder Titan? I'm currently trying to learn the hero (after being inspired by Iceiceice and Mushi- see HGT vs DK game 2 in WPC Ace) but it really is a tall order for me so far.
Actually, is it even viable to start learning this hero at 3.8-4.0k mmr? It seems like no one at this level even understands what the hero is supposed to do. No one will ever let me solo offlane, for example.
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He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination.
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0-4-4 ET mid with phase + bottle is still very good. very strong against other melee mids (drop spirit + auto attack).
the nerf doesnt really affect how you should play him tho. if you got a favorable rune then gank. you need the early levels to take advantage of his gank. stronger with teammates that have disable.
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On April 30 2014 15:13 hariooo wrote:
He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination.
SR should be sufficient. Ay but I dislike this hero anyway. Never found him to be good.
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Nerf didn't hit that hard. His strong points are spirit spam and holla-dolla-imba aura, still there. Competitive-wise he is not that popular but he is still a teamfight and siege monster.
I play around 4KEU and can go hard lane without too much question. It is definitely hard to sustain any farm in the lane but it is possible to leech xp, accumulate gold enough for soul ring and constant nuke spam. Since this hero has 315 base ms, you can easily tag 2 heroes + creeps(+120 damage min) into wadafaka deeps. People underestimate the nuke damage all the time . It is hilarious to see someone man up on you, got hit by 1/5 of hp and go full run forest.
Personally I am not a good mid player so I avoid playing it. In hard lane you need an early stomp and timely ulti for counter-gank-tp-budsacks. Even 1 level is 2 second stun, 2 level stomp guarantees an ulti hit.
I have a respectable winrate on that hero and I think he is still very good in solo queue .
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havent tried playing him in other lanes. i feel he's really underwhelming and underused if he's not getting the early levels. even with just a haste rune you could just run to the other lane and staple gun any hero to death.
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On April 30 2014 16:52 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 15:13 hariooo wrote:
He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination. SR should be sufficient. Ay but I dislike this hero anyway. Never found him to be good.
If their safe lane is weak enough to let you farm a SR then you win anyway. Not sure how ET level 1 is supposed to come into exp range or get more than 1 creep kill.
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On April 30 2014 13:11 xAdra wrote:
Tips on improving as Elder Titan? I'm currently trying to learn the hero (after being inspired by Iceiceice and Mushi- see HGT vs DK game 2 in WPC Ace) but it really is a tall order for me so far.
Actually, is it even viable to start learning this hero at 3.8-4.0k mmr? It seems like no one at this level even understands what the hero is supposed to do. No one will ever let me solo offlane, for example.
ET is fun, challenging to play and is definitely a team player Hero. Max spirit, then aura. It may or may not be useful to get Ulti at Lvl 6, or 1 point in Stomp depending on the match-up. I find echo stomp to be pretty useful against range and invis heros. Always try to max the damage done by it (e.g. hit every creep, hero and neutral creep possible). Once you do, you hit for amazing damage.
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On April 30 2014 21:25 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 16:52 DucK- wrote:On April 30 2014 15:13 hariooo wrote:
He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination. SR should be sufficient. Ay but I dislike this hero anyway. Never found him to be good. If their safe lane is weak enough to let you farm a SR then you win anyway. Not sure how ET level 1 is supposed to come into exp range or get more than 1 creep kill.
I've tried not going straight for Soul Ring, instead getting a naked sage mask to start off. Whether or not I eventually turn it into a SR is situational, however the sage mask helps me spam the spirit.
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Can anyone explain the item build/how ET is supposed to be played mid and throughout the game?
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depends on your lane. I almost exclusively play him mid going for bottle -> phase -> drums. 0/4/4/0 is pretty strong especially with a rune + your mspd (phase + drums). You literally 3 hit most heroes. I play him to mainly create space on lanes and gank non-stop.
I transition to tank with shivas/vlads/AC/mek(if no one makes mek).
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Are there any heroes or hero combinations that trigger you to pick this hero? I love playing him, I just never seem to find a game where he's the right pick. Makes me think that maybe I'm overlooking a lot of his potential.
I know he's considered a counter to Morphling and Antimage because of the armor removal.. any others?
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On August 18 2014 22:40 Beirut wrote:
Are there any heroes or hero combinations that trigger you to pick this hero? I love playing him, I just never seem to find a game where he's the right pick. Makes me think that maybe I'm overlooking a lot of his potential.
I know he's considered a counter to Morphling and Antimage because of the armor removal.. any others?
Techies since Techies does composite damage. Meaning Elder Titan's aura affects both parts of Techies' damage. Too bad he's not released yet.
I've also seen games where he worked well with Naga because she could help him set up a Earth Splitter or Echo Stomp with her ult.
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I hate playing this hero. Only play him when I random. At offlane, I tend to skill at least 1 point stomp early over order. Main reason is that I may not have the level advantage to abuse the nuke damage, and I think having the short stun may be more useful than that bit of extra damage.
Build wise you get all the utility items on him that you think is necessary. I started going dagon as well. Et doesn't need items to function anyway, so just get whatever.
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Exclusively play him offlane, and since I asked the question that opened this thread he's become my favourite hero and I've clocked in about 80 games on him.
For (offlane utility) ET, there are only 2 core items: soul ring and tranquil boots. You want to get your soul ring as soon as you possibly can for free spirit spam.
As for extension items, you have 2 paths to go. The more common utility titan will carry mek/pipe/drums as the first pick up after tranq/soulring. Subsequently you can either transition into a hitting titan (see next paragraph) or continue building utility items. Force staff and Hex are the most popular (iceiceice does this). Titan is a pretty good vladmirs buyer if your team can benefit from it.
The hard-hitting elder Titan is better played mid with phase boots. Drums are a natural addition, and then you go for bkb. What you want to do is walk your spirit through enemy heroes, as many as possible, stun them then activate bkb and start whacking for 200-300 damage per hit. I don't have much experience with this playstyle so I'll focus on utility for the rest of my post.
As Duck said above, the best skill build for ET in 99% pub games is the 1-4-2-1 build. Pros do 0-4-4-0, but that's only because their drafts will incorporate many more sources of disables. I don't recommend the 0440 build if you don't have at least 2 other reliable stuns on your team. 2 more seconds of follow up stunning will benefit most teams more than a bit of magic damage amp.
The idea is to put one point in echo stomp at level 2. This allows you to tp in to help other lanes if needed- simply plop down your spirit and stomp-or allow you to disengage from pursuing heroes in your lane. You can always juke around a tree and start charging echo stomp. A notable trick is that damage from non-hero sources don't wake up a hero from the Sleep effect, so if they dive you and you stomp them under tower, your tower can potentially deal a huge amount of damage to them for you.
I said the build is 1-4-2-1 but when you should invest in your ultimate is actually very subjective to the game. If the mass ganking starts going very early (as the curent high level metagame is now) then you want your ultimate at level 6. If it's mostly a farm fest where people sit in lanes you can hold off taking your ultimate, since you will rarely hit it on two people in the lane when your only disable is unreliable.
Radiant offlane is significantly easier for this hero than dire. Sometimes when you are on dire all you can do is ward for enemy support movement, control runes and plop down your spirit on the enemy pull camp- make sure you only hit the neutrals and not their creep wave! This helps push the wave toward your tower for some much needed exp.
Elder titan is very strong at stalling pushes. Use soul ring, walk through where the enemy team is supposed to be. Walk through common hiding spots for blink users. You can single handedly gather a lot of information this way. A single spirit hit and an echo stomp will always kill off a non-super ranged creep, which makes the creep wave much weaker. Also remember that you are very good at rosh fights- in such a tight and enclosed space if you can catch them out with a well timed stomp+ulti combo you can really deal a lot of damage.
A note on the ulti- it deals composite damage (50%magical 50%physical) so you really really want natural order aura to be on your enemies if you expect the ultimate to deal damage. Remember that level 2 echo stomp will sleep enemies long enough for split earth to activate- but you need to cast split earth immediately after the stomp, and your allies must not wake up the enemies.
As for team synergies, the aforementioned naga is of course good for your ultimate. Anything else with a wide, aoe stun will do the trick- earthshaker, warlock, tidehunter. Good coodination is needed since you'll want to ult and stomp immediately after your allies stomp. Invoker tornado is similarly helpful but this requires a lot of coordination/luck to pull off. As for allies, any hero with huge burst magical damage counts since their spells are basically hitting for pure damage on anything not named meepo or that has a pipe. Examples are Lina, Lion and Zeus. Some other strong combos I've noticed are sniper- full assasinate damage and legion commander- no armor for the duel victim.
Most agi carries are titan food, especially those that build agility items for damage. Morphling is easily the most egregious example, though anything with high armor will instantly be reduced to a soft wall of flesh.
In conclusion I really think Titan is a really fun hero to play and is also imo the safest hero to start learning micro with, since you don't get penalized as much as any of the other micro heroes even if you fuck up.
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I really enjoy playing this hero, I allways play him solo offlane as he needs every bit of exp he can get. Generally I get soul ring, treads and drums after that I get whatever I feel like the team needs. If you cant get solo lane as this hero do not pick him, his potential just gets wasted that way and regardless there is a time and place for Elder Titan and thats not every match, his very situational pick in my opinion.
For skill build I do the 0-4-4-1 build unless there is lots of fighting and pushing by the enemy team, then I max the stomp to stop the pushes. Pushing into ET with max stomp is really hard as there is always a danger of getting sleeped and initiated unless he gets jumped on and killed. Also use Astral spirit to scout before doing high ground push as the Spirit gives vision so you know whats there waiting for you.
ET is really strong against agility carries that dont get armor items because of the Natural Order aura and in the lower brackets people have no idea what Natural Order does (ET is not a popular dude) and do not get any armor items against him and generally forcing enemy Morphling for example to get a AC is already a victory.
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Started playing Elder Titan a bit after reading this thread, and boy can you make a big difference. He's a lot better in pubs than I thought.
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Still feel playing him aggressively ganking carries as early as possible (urn,phase or mana boots) is too good to pass up in pubs. Natural Order is seriously that good.
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People tend to group up in pubs a lot and rarely know the potential of ET. Revert his spirit damage nerf and I'll play him all night long.
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EPT
