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Lalalaland34491 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/b/bc/Elder_Titan_Large.png) Elder Titan
Well may you ask, "How did this world take its form?" Why of all the worlds in creation, has this one its strange properties, its diverse and motley collection of creatures, cultures and lore? "The answer," One whispers, "lies with the Titans."
These original progenitors were there near the Beginning--if not actual witnesses to the creation, then born with it still echoing in their ears. Stamped with the earliest energies of the universe, they wished nothing more than to continue as creators themselves. Thus they bent to the task of shaping matter to their will: hammering and heating, bending and blasting. And when matter proved less challenging than they liked, they turned their tools upon themselves, reshaping their minds and reforging their spirits until they had become beings of great endurance. Reality itself became the ultimate object of their smithing. Yet, along the way, they sometimes erred. In cases of great ambition, mistakes are unavoidable.
The one we know as the Elder Titan was a great innovator, one who studied at the forge of creation. In honing his skills, he shattered something that could never be repaired, only thrown aside. He fell into his own broken world, a shattered soul himself. There he dwelt among the jagged shards and fissured planes, along with other lost fragments that had sifted down through the cracks in the early universe. And this is why the world we know resembles an isle of castaways, survivors of a wreck now long forgotten. Forgotten, that is, by all but the One who blames himself. He spends his time forever seeking a way to accomplish the repairs, that he might rejoin the parts of his broken soul, that we and the world alike might all be mended. This is the One we know as Elder Titan.
For abilities, stats, and other information, visit this hero's Liquipedia page here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Elder_Titan
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Tips on improving as Elder Titan? I'm currently trying to learn the hero (after being inspired by Iceiceice and Mushi- see HGT vs DK game 2 in WPC Ace) but it really is a tall order for me so far.
Actually, is it even viable to start learning this hero at 3.8-4.0k mmr? It seems like no one at this level even understands what the hero is supposed to do. No one will ever let me solo offlane, for example.
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He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination.
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0-4-4 ET mid with phase + bottle is still very good. very strong against other melee mids (drop spirit + auto attack).
the nerf doesnt really affect how you should play him tho. if you got a favorable rune then gank. you need the early levels to take advantage of his gank. stronger with teammates that have disable.
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On April 30 2014 15:13 hariooo wrote:
He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination.
SR should be sufficient. Ay but I dislike this hero anyway. Never found him to be good.
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Nerf didn't hit that hard. His strong points are spirit spam and holla-dolla-imba aura, still there. Competitive-wise he is not that popular but he is still a teamfight and siege monster.
I play around 4KEU and can go hard lane without too much question. It is definitely hard to sustain any farm in the lane but it is possible to leech xp, accumulate gold enough for soul ring and constant nuke spam. Since this hero has 315 base ms, you can easily tag 2 heroes + creeps(+120 damage min) into wadafaka deeps. People underestimate the nuke damage all the time . It is hilarious to see someone man up on you, got hit by 1/5 of hp and go full run forest.
Personally I am not a good mid player so I avoid playing it. In hard lane you need an early stomp and timely ulti for counter-gank-tp-budsacks. Even 1 level is 2 second stun, 2 level stomp guarantees an ulti hit.
I have a respectable winrate on that hero and I think he is still very good in solo queue .
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havent tried playing him in other lanes. i feel he's really underwhelming and underused if he's not getting the early levels. even with just a haste rune you could just run to the other lane and staple gun any hero to death.
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On April 30 2014 16:52 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 15:13 hariooo wrote:
He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination. SR should be sufficient. Ay but I dislike this hero anyway. Never found him to be good.
If their safe lane is weak enough to let you farm a SR then you win anyway. Not sure how ET level 1 is supposed to come into exp range or get more than 1 creep kill.
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On April 30 2014 13:11 xAdra wrote:
Tips on improving as Elder Titan? I'm currently trying to learn the hero (after being inspired by Iceiceice and Mushi- see HGT vs DK game 2 in WPC Ace) but it really is a tall order for me so far.
Actually, is it even viable to start learning this hero at 3.8-4.0k mmr? It seems like no one at this level even understands what the hero is supposed to do. No one will ever let me solo offlane, for example.
ET is fun, challenging to play and is definitely a team player Hero. Max spirit, then aura. It may or may not be useful to get Ulti at Lvl 6, or 1 point in Stomp depending on the match-up. I find echo stomp to be pretty useful against range and invis heros. Always try to max the damage done by it (e.g. hit every creep, hero and neutral creep possible). Once you do, you hit for amazing damage.
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On April 30 2014 21:25 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 16:52 DucK- wrote:On April 30 2014 15:13 hariooo wrote:
He's pretty bad solo offlane. Not enough mana to sustain a safe laning presence.
His 0441 mid build got hit really hard by the nerf a while ago that stopped it from one-shotting the range creep at 8 minutes.
He basically isn't that strong in a solo queue situation honestly. Still great with team coordination. SR should be sufficient. Ay but I dislike this hero anyway. Never found him to be good. If their safe lane is weak enough to let you farm a SR then you win anyway. Not sure how ET level 1 is supposed to come into exp range or get more than 1 creep kill.
I've tried not going straight for Soul Ring, instead getting a naked sage mask to start off. Whether or not I eventually turn it into a SR is situational, however the sage mask helps me spam the spirit.
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Can anyone explain the item build/how ET is supposed to be played mid and throughout the game?
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depends on your lane. I almost exclusively play him mid going for bottle -> phase -> drums. 0/4/4/0 is pretty strong especially with a rune + your mspd (phase + drums). You literally 3 hit most heroes. I play him to mainly create space on lanes and gank non-stop.
I transition to tank with shivas/vlads/AC/mek(if no one makes mek).
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Are there any heroes or hero combinations that trigger you to pick this hero? I love playing him, I just never seem to find a game where he's the right pick. Makes me think that maybe I'm overlooking a lot of his potential.
I know he's considered a counter to Morphling and Antimage because of the armor removal.. any others?
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On August 18 2014 22:40 Beirut wrote:
Are there any heroes or hero combinations that trigger you to pick this hero? I love playing him, I just never seem to find a game where he's the right pick. Makes me think that maybe I'm overlooking a lot of his potential.
I know he's considered a counter to Morphling and Antimage because of the armor removal.. any others?
Techies since Techies does composite damage. Meaning Elder Titan's aura affects both parts of Techies' damage. Too bad he's not released yet.
I've also seen games where he worked well with Naga because she could help him set up a Earth Splitter or Echo Stomp with her ult.
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I hate playing this hero. Only play him when I random. At offlane, I tend to skill at least 1 point stomp early over order. Main reason is that I may not have the level advantage to abuse the nuke damage, and I think having the short stun may be more useful than that bit of extra damage.
Build wise you get all the utility items on him that you think is necessary. I started going dagon as well. Et doesn't need items to function anyway, so just get whatever.
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Exclusively play him offlane, and since I asked the question that opened this thread he's become my favourite hero and I've clocked in about 80 games on him.
For (offlane utility) ET, there are only 2 core items: soul ring and tranquil boots. You want to get your soul ring as soon as you possibly can for free spirit spam.
As for extension items, you have 2 paths to go. The more common utility titan will carry mek/pipe/drums as the first pick up after tranq/soulring. Subsequently you can either transition into a hitting titan (see next paragraph) or continue building utility items. Force staff and Hex are the most popular (iceiceice does this). Titan is a pretty good vladmirs buyer if your team can benefit from it.
The hard-hitting elder Titan is better played mid with phase boots. Drums are a natural addition, and then you go for bkb. What you want to do is walk your spirit through enemy heroes, as many as possible, stun them then activate bkb and start whacking for 200-300 damage per hit. I don't have much experience with this playstyle so I'll focus on utility for the rest of my post.
As Duck said above, the best skill build for ET in 99% pub games is the 1-4-2-1 build. Pros do 0-4-4-0, but that's only because their drafts will incorporate many more sources of disables. I don't recommend the 0440 build if you don't have at least 2 other reliable stuns on your team. 2 more seconds of follow up stunning will benefit most teams more than a bit of magic damage amp.
The idea is to put one point in echo stomp at level 2. This allows you to tp in to help other lanes if needed- simply plop down your spirit and stomp-or allow you to disengage from pursuing heroes in your lane. You can always juke around a tree and start charging echo stomp. A notable trick is that damage from non-hero sources don't wake up a hero from the Sleep effect, so if they dive you and you stomp them under tower, your tower can potentially deal a huge amount of damage to them for you.
I said the build is 1-4-2-1 but when you should invest in your ultimate is actually very subjective to the game. If the mass ganking starts going very early (as the curent high level metagame is now) then you want your ultimate at level 6. If it's mostly a farm fest where people sit in lanes you can hold off taking your ultimate, since you will rarely hit it on two people in the lane when your only disable is unreliable.
Radiant offlane is significantly easier for this hero than dire. Sometimes when you are on dire all you can do is ward for enemy support movement, control runes and plop down your spirit on the enemy pull camp- make sure you only hit the neutrals and not their creep wave! This helps push the wave toward your tower for some much needed exp.
Elder titan is very strong at stalling pushes. Use soul ring, walk through where the enemy team is supposed to be. Walk through common hiding spots for blink users. You can single handedly gather a lot of information this way. A single spirit hit and an echo stomp will always kill off a non-super ranged creep, which makes the creep wave much weaker. Also remember that you are very good at rosh fights- in such a tight and enclosed space if you can catch them out with a well timed stomp+ulti combo you can really deal a lot of damage.
A note on the ulti- it deals composite damage (50%magical 50%physical) so you really really want natural order aura to be on your enemies if you expect the ultimate to deal damage. Remember that level 2 echo stomp will sleep enemies long enough for split earth to activate- but you need to cast split earth immediately after the stomp, and your allies must not wake up the enemies.
As for team synergies, the aforementioned naga is of course good for your ultimate. Anything else with a wide, aoe stun will do the trick- earthshaker, warlock, tidehunter. Good coodination is needed since you'll want to ult and stomp immediately after your allies stomp. Invoker tornado is similarly helpful but this requires a lot of coordination/luck to pull off. As for allies, any hero with huge burst magical damage counts since their spells are basically hitting for pure damage on anything not named meepo or that has a pipe. Examples are Lina, Lion and Zeus. Some other strong combos I've noticed are sniper- full assasinate damage and legion commander- no armor for the duel victim.
Most agi carries are titan food, especially those that build agility items for damage. Morphling is easily the most egregious example, though anything with high armor will instantly be reduced to a soft wall of flesh.
In conclusion I really think Titan is a really fun hero to play and is also imo the safest hero to start learning micro with, since you don't get penalized as much as any of the other micro heroes even if you fuck up.
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I really enjoy playing this hero, I allways play him solo offlane as he needs every bit of exp he can get. Generally I get soul ring, treads and drums after that I get whatever I feel like the team needs. If you cant get solo lane as this hero do not pick him, his potential just gets wasted that way and regardless there is a time and place for Elder Titan and thats not every match, his very situational pick in my opinion.
For skill build I do the 0-4-4-1 build unless there is lots of fighting and pushing by the enemy team, then I max the stomp to stop the pushes. Pushing into ET with max stomp is really hard as there is always a danger of getting sleeped and initiated unless he gets jumped on and killed. Also use Astral spirit to scout before doing high ground push as the Spirit gives vision so you know whats there waiting for you.
ET is really strong against agility carries that dont get armor items because of the Natural Order aura and in the lower brackets people have no idea what Natural Order does (ET is not a popular dude) and do not get any armor items against him and generally forcing enemy Morphling for example to get a AC is already a victory.
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Started playing Elder Titan a bit after reading this thread, and boy can you make a big difference. He's a lot better in pubs than I thought.
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Still feel playing him aggressively ganking carries as early as possible (urn,phase or mana boots) is too good to pass up in pubs. Natural Order is seriously that good.
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People tend to group up in pubs a lot and rarely know the potential of ET. Revert his spirit damage nerf and I'll play him all night long.
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On August 21 2014 17:09 Laserist wrote:
People tend to group up in pubs a lot and rarely know the potential of ET. Revert his spirit damage nerf and I'll play him all night long.
Indeed, without the nerf he would be a high-tier offlaner for sure. As it stands now he is really weak at levels 1 and 2 since he can't use the spirit to last hit anything.
A useful tip I forgot to mention- if you are running from a pursuing team of enemies and they nicely clump together in a narrow corridor for you (this is very common in pubs due to lack of coordination), don't cast your ulti towards them. Instead, cast it in the direction you are escaping towards- this makes it so that if they want to continue the chase they have to take damage from earth splitter, whereupon the slow can either buy you time to escape or for allies to come in and clean up.
Illustration in spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +
Area depicted- Exit from radiant jungle to Dire offlane
Green- Elder Titan
Green Arrow- Cast your ulti this way
Red- Pursuing Enemies
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Would it be imbalanced if ET's stomp got buffed to no longer be a channel (have it be a cast animation with the same/slightly shorter length instead)?
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Probably, stomp is already pretty good. No one gets it though because it isn't popular right now.
Old standard was 2-4-0-1 into 2-4-4-2. Could probably do that again if he was better in the offlane.
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Hey how does natural order work with the new BKB? New bkb grants 100% magic resistance, but in the past natural order (at least the armor reduction) has gone through bkb, so does the new way everything works mean a BKB'd person under natural order would only have 67% magic resistance?
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Do you still go Soul Ring/Tranquils with Elder Titan in Lane? I used to go SR/Tranqs and get Meka
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Honestly bottle might be legitimate on him. Hard to say 100% without testing, but bottle does seem much better on offlaners in general.
Also I would say no to Tranquils. Arcanes if you are getting Mek. Maybe he goes for Crimson Guard now.
Also the 0-4-4 skill build is probably bad anymore, but have to try it. Stomp seems good to the point where I'd probably go 2-3-0-1 at 6 into 2-4-4-1 at 11. Will try it when I can, but not sure at the moment.
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everyone talks about et offlane but what about 4/5th pos? He needs 0 items, can defend amazingly and setup for things like arrow, lightstrike array etc.
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On September 26 2014 12:59 LeLoup wrote:
Honestly bottle might be legitimate on him. Hard to say 100% without testing, but bottle does seem much better on offlaners in general.
Also I would say no to Tranquils. Arcanes if you are getting Mek. Maybe he goes for Crimson Guard now.
Also the 0-4-4 skill build is probably bad anymore, but have to try it. Stomp seems good to the point where I'd probably go 2-3-0-1 at 6 into 2-4-4-1 at 11. Will try it when I can, but not sure at the moment.
If I'm laning, I get one in Stomp.
But as Mid, I still get max W/E
I think Tranqs is good for the armor and such that ET likes + synergizes with Soul Ring, but with the bottle change. It makes me wonder if it's really worth it now.
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On September 26 2014 14:12 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 12:59 LeLoup wrote:
Honestly bottle might be legitimate on him. Hard to say 100% without testing, but bottle does seem much better on offlaners in general.
Also I would say no to Tranquils. Arcanes if you are getting Mek. Maybe he goes for Crimson Guard now.
Also the 0-4-4 skill build is probably bad anymore, but have to try it. Stomp seems good to the point where I'd probably go 2-3-0-1 at 6 into 2-4-4-1 at 11. Will try it when I can, but not sure at the moment. If I'm laning, I get one in Stomp. But as Mid, I still get max W/E I think Tranqs is good for the armor and such that ET likes + synergizes with Soul Ring, but with the bottle change. It makes me wonder if it's really worth it now.
I believe bottle is essential for most hardlaners that starves mana. Guaranteed rune in every 2 minutes is charming if you can contest which ET may do very well.
Need to try first but my initial thought is, Crimson would be ok-ish on him but I didn't convince on ET to tank most of the damage initially. He has great range in all his spells and need that range to utilize them in full potential.
On September 26 2014 13:01 clickrush wrote:
everyone talks about et offlane but what about 4/5th pos? He needs 0 items, can defend amazingly and setup for things like arrow, lightstrike array etc.
I believe his laning presence is lacking considering other supports, means of securing farm. He needs some items and strong levels to utilize his skills(you need 3-4 points of spirit and 2-3 points of aura, 1 stomp and 1 ulti = level 7-9 ) to be effective imo.
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On September 26 2014 14:12 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 12:59 LeLoup wrote:
Honestly bottle might be legitimate on him. Hard to say 100% without testing, but bottle does seem much better on offlaners in general.
Also I would say no to Tranquils. Arcanes if you are getting Mek. Maybe he goes for Crimson Guard now.
Also the 0-4-4 skill build is probably bad anymore, but have to try it. Stomp seems good to the point where I'd probably go 2-3-0-1 at 6 into 2-4-4-1 at 11. Will try it when I can, but not sure at the moment. If I'm laning, I get one in Stomp. But as Mid, I still get max W/E I think Tranqs is good for the armor and such that ET likes + synergizes with Soul Ring, but with the bottle change. It makes me wonder if it's really worth it now.
Get 2 or get 0. Level 1 stomp is pretty underwhelming and you need 2 to actually hit your ult. You can skip your second point in ult though as it does nothing but +1 second of slow.
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On September 26 2014 13:01 clickrush wrote:
everyone talks about et offlane but what about 4/5th pos? He needs 0 items, can defend amazingly and setup for things like arrow, lightstrike array etc.
Played with him today as a support kinda,it felt it could work with the new goldchanges. I went :
consumables+TQ+SR+Medaillon+Aghs & R>W>Q>E (i favored the stun over the passive and compensated that with buying a medaillon somewhere along the line)
The biggest benefit to me seems his initiationskills and free damagegain without any items in the early game. He feels 2250 gold online earlier then most other initiators. With the more greedy favored drafts & teamfights nowadays, i think ET support could work in certain drafts. To me his early playmaking or saving capabilities as a support feel suppar, somehow your gonna have to draft or play around that weakness.
Aghs is nice to force bkb or let them suffer and loose rax, i guess without a bkb you almost cant win a fight in an aghs-earthsplitter. Earthsplitter could be one of the best highground initiationskills without risking everything, which could be more important in this golden patch.
One day EG, the most greedy team in the world will show us the zai ET, minds will be blown.
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On September 30 2014 08:54 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 13:01 clickrush wrote:
everyone talks about et offlane but what about 4/5th pos? He needs 0 items, can defend amazingly and setup for things like arrow, lightstrike array etc. Played with him today as a support kinda,it felt it could work with the new goldchanges. I went : consumables+TQ+SR+Medaillon+Aghs & R>W>Q>E (i favored the stun over the passive and compensated that with buying a medaillon somewhere along the line) The biggest benefit to me seems his initiationskills and free damagegain without any items in the early game. He feels 2250 gold online earlier then most other initiators. With the more greedy favored drafts & teamfights nowadays, i think ET support could work in certain drafts. To me his early playmaking or saving capabilities as a support feel suppar, somehow your gonna have to draft or play around that weakness. Aghs is nice to force bkb or let them suffer and loose rax, i guess without a bkb you almost cant win a fight in an aghs-earthsplitter. Earthsplitter could be one of the best highground initiationskills without risking everything, which could be more important in this golden patch. One day EG, the most greedy team in the world will show us the zai ET, minds will be blown.
Back when his aura and spirit were broken (aura would be applied before damage) NaVi used to run him as a support a lot.
With the buffs to the lower levels of his aura maybe we could see that come back, but it all depends on how greedy people feel they can be this patch.
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This hero is sleeper OP. Before 6.82, certain heroes could afford to stand in the Earth Splitter crack to keep their position in exchange of taking damage. Now you can get Aghs on him and make them learn the hard way.
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Aghs doesnt really feel worthwhile on ET. Disarm is pretty cool but I'd rather get other items
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It's an amazing novelty for sure, but the huge problem is how challenging it can be to land Earth Splitter. If you miss your earth splitter you essentially wasted 4200 gold on that aghanims scepter. I find it worth the risk when the enemy has multiple right click heroes (common in pubs) such as Lifestealer, Wraith King, Sven etc.
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On September 30 2014 08:54 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 13:01 clickrush wrote:
everyone talks about et offlane but what about 4/5th pos? He needs 0 items, can defend amazingly and setup for things like arrow, lightstrike array etc. Played with him today as a support kinda,it felt it could work with the new goldchanges. I went : consumables+TQ+SR+Medaillon+Aghs & R>W>Q>E (i favored the stun over the passive and compensated that with buying a medaillon somewhere along the line) The biggest benefit to me seems his initiationskills and free damagegain without any items in the early game. He feels 2250 gold online earlier then most other initiators. With the more greedy favored drafts & teamfights nowadays, i think ET support could work in certain drafts. To me his early playmaking or saving capabilities as a support feel suppar, somehow your gonna have to draft or play around that weakness. Aghs is nice to force bkb or let them suffer and loose rax, i guess without a bkb you almost cant win a fight in an aghs-earthsplitter. Earthsplitter could be one of the best highground initiationskills without risking everything, which could be more important in this golden patch. One day EG, the most greedy team in the world will show us the zai ET, minds will be blown.
Elder Titan is a terrible initiator. The only time you initiate is when you land the stomp, which relies on either a set up or if the enemy fucks up. Really is kinda dumb if you successfully initiate with stomp. The hero is more of a follow up or acting as a buff.
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I like the aghs against rightclick heros.
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On September 26 2014 12:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Hey how does natural order work with the new BKB? New bkb grants 100% magic resistance, but in the past natural order (at least the armor reduction) has gone through bkb, so does the new way everything works mean a BKB'd person under natural order would only have 67% magic resistance?
Has anyone tested this? Would be a cool abuse.
However my guess is that BKB and magic resist amp aren't bugged given how there are a number of items/abilities that do this. Still possible tho
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On September 30 2014 16:56 Veles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 12:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Hey how does natural order work with the new BKB? New bkb grants 100% magic resistance, but in the past natural order (at least the armor reduction) has gone through bkb, so does the new way everything works mean a BKB'd person under natural order would only have 67% magic resistance? Has anyone tested this? Would be a cool abuse. However my guess is that BKB and magic resist amp aren't bugged given how there are a number of items/abilities that do this. Still possible tho
It is actually "Black King Bar, Repel, Rage and all other previous forms of "Magic Immunity" now grant Spell Immunity status and a 100% Magic Resistance bonus." So spells can do damage to bkb under aura? I mean how many bkb piercing magical damage source we have? Pure will not be reduced in the end and magical damage cannot be targeted to bkb afaik.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
Go test with bane I guess
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MURICA15980 Posts
On September 30 2014 17:17 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2014 16:56 Veles wrote:On September 26 2014 12:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Hey how does natural order work with the new BKB? New bkb grants 100% magic resistance, but in the past natural order (at least the armor reduction) has gone through bkb, so does the new way everything works mean a BKB'd person under natural order would only have 67% magic resistance? Has anyone tested this? Would be a cool abuse. However my guess is that BKB and magic resist amp aren't bugged given how there are a number of items/abilities that do this. Still possible tho It is actually "Black King Bar, Repel, Rage and all other previous forms of "Magic Immunity" now grant Spell Immunity status and a 100% Magic Resistance bonus." So spells can do damage to bkb under aura? I mean how many bkb piercing magical damage source we have? Pure will not be reduced in the end and magical damage cannot be targeted to bkb afaik.
So what does this mean for the minus armor debuff with bkb on? Does the carry/hero maintain his spell/magic immunity but still lose all his armor when he bkbs?
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On October 04 2014 17:04 Klogon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2014 17:17 Laserist wrote:On September 30 2014 16:56 Veles wrote:On September 26 2014 12:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Hey how does natural order work with the new BKB? New bkb grants 100% magic resistance, but in the past natural order (at least the armor reduction) has gone through bkb, so does the new way everything works mean a BKB'd person under natural order would only have 67% magic resistance? Has anyone tested this? Would be a cool abuse. However my guess is that BKB and magic resist amp aren't bugged given how there are a number of items/abilities that do this. Still possible tho It is actually "Black King Bar, Repel, Rage and all other previous forms of "Magic Immunity" now grant Spell Immunity status and a 100% Magic Resistance bonus." So spells can do damage to bkb under aura? I mean how many bkb piercing magical damage source we have? Pure will not be reduced in the end and magical damage cannot be targeted to bkb afaik. So what does this mean for the minus armor debuff with bkb on? Does the carry/hero maintain his spell/magic immunity but still lose all his armor when he bkbs?
iirc the armor debuff has always been applied to a hero regardless of magic immunity
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I did test it. When you are BKB'd you still get 100% magic resist when near ET or his spirit, however your armor is still reduced by 100% of base.
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And laserist, an example I think would be something like epicenter or echo slam. Something that's AOE magic damage that BKB would make do no damage. If it worked the way I thought it might, then you would still do 33% of your damage, but it doesn't work like that so it's irrelevant.
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My favorite hero so far ! He can do absolutly everything but that's not the point.
It just come to my mind and i just wanted a confirmation (i'm at the office i cant launch doto) : if a hero is in range of the elder echo stomp + the astral echo stomp will he take 220 ?
sorry for not staying humble and modest but I am rather proud, i just entered the Elder Titan player ranking on dotabuff :D
47th -> King Keke
Elder titan ranking
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When both stomps hit they take 110 physical and 110 magical
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
I assume BKB sets your magic resistance to 100% and doesn't allow it to be changed by things that reduce magic resistance. Kinda like Oracle's fates edict?
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On October 05 2014 06:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I did test it. When you are BKB'd you still get 100% magic resist when near ET or his spirit, however your armor is still reduced by 100% of base.
Yeah, magic immunity =/= magic resistance.
ET aura lowers magic resistances, but magic damage will still not hurt if you're immune to it.
On November 20 2014 18:54 ahswtini wrote:
I assume BKB sets your magic resistance to 100% and doesn't allow it to be changed by things that reduce magic resistance. Kinda like Oracle's fates edict?
I see where you're coming from but I do think there's more to it, because you can't be targeted by magic spells that do not go through magic immunity (even ones that do no damage like PA blink) when magic immune.
So magic immunity =/= 100% magic resistance, there is more to it.
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On November 20 2014 18:45 Lash- wrote:
When both stomps hit they take 110 physical and 110 magical
ok thanks.
About oracle how fade eddict and natural oder interact ? does someone under the effect of fade eddict and natural order got a 77% magic resistance (btw physical damage would be pretty insane with 0 base armor and 50% bonus dmg).
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On November 20 2014 18:58 Murlox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 06:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I did test it. When you are BKB'd you still get 100% magic resist when near ET or his spirit, however your armor is still reduced by 100% of base. Yeah, magic immunity =/= magic resistance. ET aura lowers magic resistances, but magic damage will still not hurt if you're immune to it. Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 18:54 ahswtini wrote:
I assume BKB sets your magic resistance to 100% and doesn't allow it to be changed by things that reduce magic resistance. Kinda like Oracle's fates edict? I see where you're coming from but I do think there's more to it, because you can't be targeted by magic spells that do not go through magic immunity (even ones that do no damage like PA blink) when magic immune. So magic immunity =/= 100% magic resistance, there is more to it.
your first part is wrong - the magic damage doesn't hurt because you have 100% magic resistance despite the aura. you're not immune to the aura, the aura penetrates spell immunity.
you can't be targeted by those spells like pa blink because you have spell immunity.
magic resistance reduces magic damage.
spell immunity means you can't be targeted or affected by spells
the two are independent of each other. bkb both sets your magic resistance to 100%, AND gives you spell immunity. Part of the confusion comes from the fact that spell immunity used to be called magic immunity. They changed it along with the general damage type changes in 6.82 to make it less confusing.
i would say that magic immunity now means both magic resistance and spell immunity (aka BKB, rage, repel). this is why when you are bane ulted with bkb on, you will be disabled (the spell penetrates spell immunity and applies all of its affects, but because the bkb also provides 100% magic resistance, it will do no damage)
how this ties into the discussion above is that elder titan's aura penetrates spell immunity (ie. it affects bkb targets), it will try to lower the magic resistance of a bkb'd target, but bkb sets the magic resistance at a constant 100% (kinda like haste and how it's set to a constant 522 that cant be reduced).
does this make sense?
tl;dr: you can't be "immune" to magic damage, the closest you can get is 100% magic resistance. you can be immune to spells however.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On November 20 2014 19:06 Arkhe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 18:45 Lash- wrote:
When both stomps hit they take 110 physical and 110 magical ok thanks. About oracle how fade eddict and natural oder interact ? does someone under the effect of fade eddict and natural order got a 77% magic resistance (btw physical damage would be pretty insane with 0 base armor and 50% bonus dmg).
I would imagine, like I said above, that fate's edict sets your magic resistance to a constant 100% like bkb does, and so natural order would not be able to reduce it. I can't test it right now though.
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I'm not sure that i undestood well.
But yes i think that bkb magic resistant is a constant, otherwise you should be abble to use AOE magic damage to hurt a bkb hero (with the natural order or veil of discord)
edit : didnt saw the second answer , i didn't downloaded the test client i have to wait until the patch to try it out
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
I may be going home soon, I'll try and test it out then.
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BKB doesn't set magic resistance to 100%, it provides magic immunity which is entirely different. For example you can cast VS stun on a low life Huskar, but you cannot do it on a BKB'd hero.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On November 20 2014 19:59 beef42 wrote:
BKB doesn't set magic resistance to 100%, it provides magic immunity which is entirely different. For example you can cast VS stun on a low life Huskar, but you cannot do it on a BKB'd hero.
no, it does both,
otherwise, explain why a bane ult on a bkb target does no damage. it clearly isn't magic immune because the bane ult still disables.
here is an excerpt from the 6.82 patchnotes:
Magic Immunity has now been renamed to Spell Immunity. Spell Immunity only defines if Spells interact with it, not how damage itself is handled. This means that on its own Spell Immunity status does not reduce any damage.
Black King Bar, Repel, Rage and all other previous forms of "Magic Immunity" now grant Spell Immunity status and a 100% Magic Resistance bonus.
it's for the exact confusion that you're experiencing that valve renamed magic immunity to spell immunity
@Arkhe:
fate's edict sets magic resistance to 100%, and is not reduced by ET aura.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ips8lRC.jpg)
not reduced by veil either, not gonna bother testing eblade and other sources of -magicres
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I might have found a little trick on elder but i'm asking myself if its a non-know fact or if everyone know.
In fact my google searchs didn't showed me anything like this.
U might have seen it in game allready , when the astral his moving you can channel the echo stomp while the astral keep moving for imo 50/100units depends on your movespeed.
I would like to make you a video because i tested it in-game and it's not a graphic bug (like timbersaw's ulti on dotaTV that go fowards before coming back to his real position) and it allow you to win few secs on eco stomp channeling.
(throw me an astral if my english is really bad)
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I'm wondering why this hero suddenly turned into one of the most oft-picked position 4 heroes in the current patch. It used to be played mainly as an offlaner in pro games. It was also one of the least seen heroes ever in pub games (makes it unmainstream enough that I decided to make it my favourite hero ) but I'm starting to see more people pick Titan in pub games
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On November 27 2014 06:36 xAdra wrote:
It was also one of the least seen heroes ever in pub games (makes it unmainstream enough that I decided to make it my favourite hero ) but I'm starting to see more people pick Titan in pub games
I think it's a coincidence that you've seen him a lot; Dotabuff says Titan is less popular now than a week ago, probably due to the Forseer's Contract event.
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He's talking in pro games. Not in pubs.
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Holy shit this hero is so good, I've played him a bunch these last days and he does so much for your team! He makes your entire team do more damage, doesn't matter if it's physical or magical. Also, he is a hero that all he really needs is lvls but scales great with items as well, love this hero right now.
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It's probably because of morphling making something of a return to relevance - ET is damned good both with and against that hero.
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On November 27 2014 10:25 GiveMeYourtTots wrote:
Holy shit this hero is so good, I've played him a bunch these last days and he does so much for your team! He makes your entire team do more damage, doesn't matter if it's physical or magical. Also, he is a hero that all he really needs is lvls but scales great with items as well, love this hero right now.
He need to be more in pub so player would pick him.
Poor, poor Titan he is close to be the least played hero even if he is incredibly powerfull.. i guess it's easier to get PA :p
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On November 27 2014 06:36 xAdra wrote:
I'm wondering why this hero suddenly turned into one of the most oft-picked position 4 heroes in the current patch. It used to be played mainly as an offlaner in pro games. It was also one of the least seen heroes ever in pub games (makes it unmainstream enough that I decided to make it my favourite hero ) but I'm starting to see more people pick Titan in pub games
Don't think he's really picked all that often. Probably has to do with the fact that notail / bigdaddy of team secret really likes playing ET (and plays it so well). Ice3 also plays a mean ET, but less these days with VG.
Whats there not to like about this hero, it offers so much - scouting, initiation, counter-initiation, team damage, tank, item flexibility. Anyway, ET is kind of a safe bet vs opponent Agi carries, no matter how late the game goes.
The interesting development these days is skilling echo stomp at lvl 1 to gank, previously it was getting midas and/or dagon.
Remember those days when Bulba used to play mid ET? wonder what ever happened to that idea.
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I've lost a lot of games to this hero recently. Everytime I see him on an enemy team I just die a little inside. In mid level pubs around 4k, people don't realize the effect that hero has on those around him. I was a Spectre and he caused me to get blown up when I had a heart/manta/rad and highest networth in the game by 5k. So disgustingly good and obviously more so against any agi carry.
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On November 28 2014 13:47 ncsix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 06:36 xAdra wrote:
I'm wondering why this hero suddenly turned into one of the most oft-picked position 4 heroes in the current patch. It used to be played mainly as an offlaner in pro games. It was also one of the least seen heroes ever in pub games (makes it unmainstream enough that I decided to make it my favourite hero ) but I'm starting to see more people pick Titan in pub games Remember those days when Bulba used to play mid ET? wonder what ever happened to that idea.
Oh yeah, when his magic damage was broken ... that's why don't see him mid now.
Bulba and Zai are also still playing him in pro games.
Btw I never skilled aura over stomp, the minus armor early game don't worth an echo stomp which can get you out of hard situation.
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I still do max aura/spirit mid and leave out Stomp, it's still pretty insanely powerful.
For lane, I get one in stomp
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On November 28 2014 16:19 Arkhe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2014 13:47 ncsix wrote:On November 27 2014 06:36 xAdra wrote:
I'm wondering why this hero suddenly turned into one of the most oft-picked position 4 heroes in the current patch. It used to be played mainly as an offlaner in pro games. It was also one of the least seen heroes ever in pub games (makes it unmainstream enough that I decided to make it my favourite hero ) but I'm starting to see more people pick Titan in pub games Remember those days when Bulba used to play mid ET? wonder what ever happened to that idea. Oh yeah, when his magic damage was broken ... that's why don't see him mid now. Bulba and Zai are also still playing him in pro games. Btw I never skilled aura over stomp, the minus armor early game don't worth an echo stomp which can get you out of hard situation.
I do a mix- I skill spirit at level 1, then stomp at level 2, then proceed to max aura and spirit. It's pretty flexible. Sometimes I get fast 2 or even 3 levels in stomp if we need a lot of lock down on enemies. I mainly find that level 1 stomp is already very strong since it offers a 2 second stun assuming it goes uninterrupted. Early stomp is also great for getting out of sticky situations in the offlane if the enemies have no stun spells.
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The only thing I think people should keep in mind is that you need at least 2 points in stomp to guarantee a hit on your ultimate. I think 1-3-1 is perfectly fine, but don't hesitate to get a second point in it early as your aura is still really good even at level 3.
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On November 29 2014 14:42 Jinxed wrote:
The only thing I think people should keep in mind is that you need at least 2 points in stomp to guarantee a hit on your ultimate. I think 1-3-1 is perfectly fine, but don't hesitate to get a second point in it early as your aura is still really good even at level 3.
Yep, absolutely true, I often leave natural order at level 3 to get the second level in stomp.
One thing about the ulti though, it's usually not necessary at all to get it early. I generally only get it when the team fights really begin, which in pubs (unorganized, no-strategy games) is usually around level 11 if you were a moderately successful offlaner.
There is also no need to level up the ulti until you have maxed stomp. The way I see it, being able to lock down your enemies for a greater amount of time is much more valuable than the ulti, which scales horribly (i woulnd't be surprised if Icefrog reworked the scaling soon, it utterly makes no sense) and is one of the most unreliable skills in the game to hit.
Sometimes hitting the ult isn't even that important- you can use it for zoning, like cutting off your opponents from a chase or to make an area extremely undesirable for them to cross. This is damn useful in narrow corridors like the radiant ancients area or the rosh pit area. When your opponents see the giant crack passing it makes them think twice about whether or not to engage and that hesitation can win your team fights for you.
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Realized today that I'm top 100 with this hero on dotabuff- rank 85. Not exactly the largest achievement though, there's like 1 professional player on the rankings.
Bragging aside, I'm here to talk about whether or not this guy can still offlane. Shifting snows nerfed his spirit damage, and I have to say that I feel the hero was hurt quite a bit by this. While the flat damage nerf seems minor, it has really thrown me off my rhythm. You could slap the spirit on the enemies last time and hurt them, but the damage nerf has taken its toll; seems like the harass became "annoying" rather than "painful".
Level 4 spirit+any level of echo stomp could clear ranged creeps from any creep wave before the nerf, now the ranged creep survives. This is another thing that makes me feel like the hero is weaker- you can't neuter creep waves by spamming soul ring->spirit->stomp anymore.
I feel like dire offlane is completely disabled for this hero at this point. On radiant you can still walk your spirits past the large camp, and it is relatively simple to use your spirit to disrupt their pull camp, but on dire you simply have nothing to fall back on. It was difficult before, now it is just not doable.
I'm not sure if it's more worth it to run ET as an offlane for radiant or just a position 4 support. I'm not particularly keen on the latter due to the fact that a level 1 ET does nothing, and early ET roaming just feels clunky and predictable.
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I don't really see much reason to run ET as offlane. You dontreally need any items, just levels, which you should be able to get as position 4. I guess in pubs it can be weak because people run junglers every other game and ET isnt much of a laning support so you might wanna go offlane for that reason I suppose.
On a different topic (not much of a topic, just me ranting/thinking/discussing with myself) this hero seems to be like the perfect example how trends influence picking frequency. This hero went from being a thing in mid/offlane to be irrelevant to be a thing as position 4 and now pretty much irrelevant again. Yet the damn aura pretty much stays the same, and the aura IS the hero. It's the whole deal with him. But somehow a loss of 10/20/30 damage on rank 2/3/4 spirit changed him from being hot stuff to complete irrelevance. I'm totally expecting teams to "rediscover" the hero again a few month down the road and be like "this aura is actually so good" (yea we didnt know that) and start picking him again. Theres no way that damage loss motivated him to go through DAC unpicked.
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United States47024 Posts
It's not so much "trends" as "how well does he fit the draft with the other heroes getting picked?"
The change itself didn't affect ET that much, but the drastic shift in how people draft 6.83 had pretty big impact on how pickable he is.
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I have been playing around with ET as a support the last couple of days. It really depends on the draft ofc, but I feel like he offers so much to the team. You got aura, stomp for intiation and disengage and the spirit for scouting. I also think aether lens is super good on him. Now you can cast your spirit from a safe distance. Hope to see more from him in progames!
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one cool thing about ET is the fact that you can build pretty much anything on him. The only issue you need to solve is early-midgame mana and thats it.
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tranquils soulring
the only issue is that people dont know how to play with him
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What I do before the game begins is that I tell my allies that my stomp is not a stun, but a sleep effect like Bane's Nightmare. Any source of non-player damage except Astral Spirit will wake them up. Combined with voice chat to remind them to stop attacking, this results in a lot less frustration when playing Elder Titan.
Also, I like to ult during team fights even if I didn't stomp beforehand. A lot of people don't understand what he does, and I've gotten several multikills with my ult during a teamfight (enemy just stands in the gaping crevice until it explodes).
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How do you guys build ET when playing as a support? I have been very successful with him leeching exp in lane (or pulling if I am in the safe lane) to get to level 2 or three and then roaming around to gank other lanes. He's pretty strong at zoning offlaners in the safelane with Ancestral Spirit, and I find the only things I need to be successful with him is a couple of levels.
I saw iceiceice go 2/1/3/0 at level 6 into 4/3/3/1 at 11. He was offlane, but the increased Spirit levels (in lieu of picking up ult levels) helps quite a bit when farming during a downtime. (Crit went for a 2/1/2/1 at 6 into a 4/1/4/2 at 11 at Shanghai when he played support).
I have been considering a build of 3/2/1/0 at 6 (getting ult at 7 because I find I have mana issues trying to use ultimate in the early game), and a 4/2/3/2 at 11 with an item build of brown boots into soul ring into a midas. I don't particularly like too many mid level items on ET, and I think the extra levels provided by the midas is very important when transitioning into the late game. The midas also gets more benefit from the extra level of spirit. I think ET can support that kind of greed. He's a powerful dpusher, and the stomp can provide a level of disengage/save that other support items would provide. The biggest issue I have is that I really like a supplemental mana regen item to increase the potential to spam farm (mana boots or euls)
What do you guys think? Do you build differently as a support? Do you think this build is too greedy or punishable?
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On March 12 2016 06:09 soanparlell wrote:
How do you guys build ET when playing as a support? I have been very successful with him leeching exp in lane (or pulling if I am in the safe lane) to get to level 2 or three and then roaming around to gank other lanes. He's pretty strong at zoning offlaners in the safelane with Ancestral Spirit, and I find the only things I need to be successful with him is a couple of levels.
I saw iceiceice go 2/1/3/0 at level 6 into 4/3/3/1 at 11. He was offlane, but the increased Spirit levels (in lieu of picking up ult levels) helps quite a bit when farming during a downtime. (Crit went for a 2/1/2/1 at 6 into a 4/1/4/2 at 11 at Shanghai when he played support).
I have been considering a build of 3/2/1/0 at 6 (getting ult at 7 because I find I have mana issues trying to use ultimate in the early game), and a 4/2/3/2 at 11 with an item build of brown boots into soul ring into a midas. I don't particularly like too many mid level items on ET, and I think the extra levels provided by the midas is very important when transitioning into the late game. The midas also gets more benefit from the extra level of spirit. I think ET can support that kind of greed. He's a powerful dpusher, and the stomp can provide a level of disengage/save that other support items would provide. The biggest issue I have is that I really like a supplemental mana regen item to increase the potential to spam farm (mana boots or euls)
What do you guys think? Do you build differently as a support? Do you think this build is too greedy or punishable?
Not the expert on the hero, but atm I'd go tranqs sr into either euls/veil/both (or just the usual one out of fs/mek/glimmer).
I like Crits build, I think you want 2 points early in stomp for guaranteed ult and from then on either max utility aka stomp or max damage aka aura. 212 into 414 is definitely the build on a sup imo.
Both his nukes scale terribly damage wise, so getting more than 1 point in spirit seems like a waste (stomp at least provides utility). At least as a sup who isn't spamming it and cant use the amplified damage from the creepwave to hit people/get lhs.
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I don't think you actually need tranquils most of the time if you are going to be getting aether lens in addition to soul ring, unless you are gonna be spamming a lot. Obviously the extra speed on the spirit is nice, but with the extra range from aether lens you might not need it, and skipping tranquils allows you to get your lens sooner. As well, the extra range would often be more valuable since you usually start your stomp immediately after casting your spirit, rather than moving it into position.
Also, I'm pretty sure you need level 3 stomp to actually guarantee an ult. If you do the ult right on top of one hero you are probably guaranteed to hit them with a level 2 stomp. However, if they have blink, are fast or you are tying to hit more than one hero, 0.14 seconds plus the delay in you casting your ult after stomp can be enough to avoid it.
Sometimes I think putting more points in spirit can be good if you want to forgo ult early on. I would only do this if the other team, or just your lane, lacks disables and/or manfighting ability. The idea is that you spirit the wave and then run them down with your bonus damage and speed. You still want at least one or two points in stomp for general usefulness and to allow to run up to people.
I am only 3100-3300, but I like Elder Titan and play him quite a bit. So, I could be wrong on some or all of this.
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On March 13 2016 06:37 Just_a_Moth wrote:
I don't think you actually need tranquils most of the time if you are going to be getting aether lens in addition to soul ring, unless you are gonna be spamming a lot. Obviously the extra speed on the spirit is nice, but with the extra range from aether lens you might not need it, and skipping tranquils allows you to get your lens sooner. As well, the extra range would often be more valuable since you usually start your stomp immediately after casting your spirit, rather than moving it into position.
Also, I'm pretty sure you need level 3 stomp to actually guarantee an ult. If you do the ult right on top of one hero you are probably guaranteed to hit them with a level 2 stomp. However, if they have blink, are fast or you are tying to hit more than one hero, 0.14 seconds plus the delay in you casting your ult after stomp can be enough to avoid it.
Sometimes I think putting more points in spirit can be good if you want to forgo ult early on. I would only do this if the other team, or just your lane, lacks disables and/or manfighting ability. The idea is that you spirit the wave and then run them down with your bonus damage and speed. You still want at least one or two points in stomp for general usefulness and to allow to run up to people.
I am only 3100-3300, but I like Elder Titan and play him quite a bit. So, I could be wrong on some or all of this.
soul ring tranq lets you farm up the aether at a decent clip with the extra mana so it probably isn't that much slower (assuming offlaner here)
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Yeah, that's true. I guess I usually think in terms of being a support haha
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On March 13 2016 09:04 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Yeah, that's true. I guess I usually think in terms of being a support haha
Imho tranqs are too good for the cost to pass on. It's 525g for never having to go b2b, hyperspeed (on the spirit as well) and +4 armor.
You rarely ever need tranqs on a hero (cent mb), but they are pretty much always good for sups if your game isn't terrible (and you don't want arcanes/ggs). Even more so with sr and an ability that profits from the bonus ms.
Ofc if you are lone position 6 sup with jungle lc and offlane clinkz and somehow need to get enough money together to buy the game deciding forcestaff or glimmer that finally keeps your core alive, things look different.
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I kind of like going brown boots many of the times I play support (usually because I am so underfarmed I cannot afford it, or because I want to play a little greedier toward something more high impact).
ET is a little strange, tranquils means more farm with a soul ring, but he can have a lot of mana issues in the early and midgame without another mana regen item (euls or mana boots). Part of me wants to try building ring of regen instead of tranquils and transition into a faster Aether lens (as Just_a_Moth suggested).
The flow chart (concerning boots for support ET) as I have it is after Brown Boots + Soul Ring asking can I afford to rush a midas? If not, does my team need mek? (if they do, I prefer to get mana boots to support the mana costs from Mek) If not, can I afford Tranquils? (Do I need a cloak or bracer to survive magic damage) Then buying Tranquils.
Edit: This line of thought, as I see it, is asking if I can (or have to) play greedier as a support, and if not defaulting towards a more standard build.
On March 13 2016 03:58 Blackfeather wrote:
Both his nukes scale terribly damage wise, so getting more than 1 point in spirit seems like a waste (stomp at least provides utility). At least as a sup who isn't spamming it and cant use the amplified damage from the creepwave to hit people/get lhs.
I think Iceiceice went for more points in spirit to maximize his early midas pickup (attack speed will make the extra level scale better into the midgame, and the extra exp from midas helps adjust for the lower level aura at 11).
I would argue that both Aura and Spirit are viable to level to level 2, because the jump is equal (they scale for 50% of the first level's numbers). To decide I would argue that a second level in Spirit would allow you to farm a little faster, and pressure out of the lanes a little stronger, while losing out from the maximized aura at 10 (making your teamfight a little weaker in the midgame). The real risk is being trapped at level 11 for 10 minutes, and not being able to maximize the skill.
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On March 14 2016 11:03 Blackfeather wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2016 09:04 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Yeah, that's true. I guess I usually think in terms of being a support haha Imho tranqs are too good for the cost to pass on. It's 525g for never having to go b2b, hyperspeed (on the spirit as well) and +4 armor. You rarely ever need tranqs on a hero (cent mb), but they are pretty much always good for sups if your game isn't terrible (and you don't want arcanes/ggs). Even more so with sr and an ability that profits from the bonus ms. Ofc if you are lone position 6 sup with jungle lc and offlane clinkz and somehow need to get enough money together to buy the game deciding forcestaff or glimmer that finally keeps your core alive, things look different.
I don't the speed on the spirit is really that relevant. Sure it helps for scouting, but every time you stomp will usually be right when you cast the spirit. Even with tranquils the spirit isn't fast enough to walk up to someone and stomp, they will just run away. Maybe if you have tranquils, euls and a yasha, but I've never been there so I don't know.
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You can also cast stomp when it's flying back to you, a lot of enemy players don't expect that. Run through them with the spirit, go further away from them and then when it's returning stomp. Highly effective in stalemates where no team wants to go.
This is when a normal stun setup doesn't work because you would get out of position.
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that was a bug that they patched out, no?
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Might be a bug, but you can still do it.
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i thought the bug was u could cast the stomp and send it flying back like its actually channeling while still moving so when it reachs enemy heros they get stunned before they can react. The stomp atm stops the spirit where ever it is and then proceeds to channel.
What Rocket-Bear is saying tho is that even without the bug stomping on the return (while its flying back) is way better/surprising than trying to just walk it up and stomp because the flying spirit gets to the position faster, leaving less time for them to react.
As for items builds on this hero, i find every game highly situational, sometimes i go traq/soul, arcanes even treads, drums, euls, mek (tho i feel like he has mana problems) prefer vlads, tried the ice3 dagon in the lategame dont like it personally.
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On March 15 2016 02:58 Just_a_Moth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 11:03 Blackfeather wrote:On March 13 2016 09:04 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Yeah, that's true. I guess I usually think in terms of being a support haha Imho tranqs are too good for the cost to pass on. It's 525g for never having to go b2b, hyperspeed (on the spirit as well) and +4 armor. You rarely ever need tranqs on a hero (cent mb), but they are pretty much always good for sups if your game isn't terrible (and you don't want arcanes/ggs). Even more so with sr and an ability that profits from the bonus ms. Ofc if you are lone position 6 sup with jungle lc and offlane clinkz and somehow need to get enough money together to buy the game deciding forcestaff or glimmer that finally keeps your core alive, things look different. I don't the speed on the spirit is really that relevant. Sure it helps for scouting, but every time you stomp will usually be right when you cast the spirit. Even with tranquils the spirit isn't fast enough to walk up to someone and stomp, they will just run away. Maybe if you have tranquils, euls and a yasha, but I've never been there so I don't know.
Actually the spirit ms is quite important--aui2k used to go tranqs euls sny on SUPPORT et. But that was when the spirit was bugged. Its still very nice for chasing fleeing targets/scouting/trolling enemy pushes though.
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I played a game as ET yesterday to see how the patch changed him. The seemingly small damage boost to his spell damage actually make him quite a flash farmer when he gets his Q and W (and E) skilled high enough. This guy can clear creep waves and many jungle camps with just a single QW combo. I was rolling in money.
I wrote about this, because this seems quite a significant buff to the hero. I rarely used him before, but I remember that ET did no such thing as flash farming, and I was always poor as dirt.
Anyone else notice this difference?
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On May 07 2016 13:34 village_idiot wrote:
I played a game as ET yesterday to see how the patch changed him. The seemingly small damage boost to his spell damage actually make him quite a flash farmer when he gets his Q and W (and E) skilled high enough. This guy can clear creep waves and many jungle camps with just a single QW combo. I was rolling in money.
I wrote about this, because this seems quite a significant buff to the hero. I rarely used him before, but I remember that ET did no such thing as flash farming, and I was always poor as dirt.
Anyone else notice this difference?
You could pretty much do the same thing before, you just had to right click each of the creeps once or twice depending on your skill levels and what type of creeps you are hitting.
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Show nested quote +On May 07 2016 13:34 village_idiot wrote:
I played a game as ET yesterday to see how the patch changed him. The seemingly small damage boost to his spell damage actually make him quite a flash farmer when he gets his Q and W (and E) skilled high enough. This guy can clear creep waves and many jungle camps with just a single QW combo. I was rolling in money.
I wrote about this, because this seems quite a significant buff to the hero. I rarely used him before, but I remember that ET did no such thing as flash farming, and I was always poor as dirt.
Anyone else notice this difference? You could pretty much do the same thing before, you just had to right click each of the creeps once or twice depending on your skill levels and what type of creeps you are hitting.
Yes, must have been something like that. To be honest, the last time I played him must have been pre-rubberband. Now farming a wave is even easier, since you don't even have to spend time lowering the creep health with right clicks. Just spirit + stomp and move on.
Another thing I have to mention about is Blademail. I tried it, and it's beautiful. The aura synergizes perfectly with the damage return. I've had enemy carries blow themselves up, before they could bring me to half health.
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This hero is a good in offlane these days?
What you guys think? and the item build,i think hes a very good farmer and want to know a good use for this gold.
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ET has always been good in offlane
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Alone no, as a dual or trilane support yes. He does okay with farm but it's usually better of going to someone else.
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ET is best as a support, because you don't need a lot of items. Soul Ring, Tranq./arcane, windlace, wand, tp, raindrop/wards. This is all he rly needs and its like 2,5 k gold.
From there on your build is flexable.
Euls--> nice set-up + ms for the spirit
Mek-->if no one else builds it
Vlads-->more aura
Ags--> can be good in certain games
Overall, you mostly buy utility itemes like Force, Glimmer , Ghost, etc.
Lategame/ultra-lategame you can aim for Shivas or Hex
Also note that ET needs exp way more than he needs gold. So a midas is i good pick up if you have a decent early game + consume as much tomen of knowledge as possible, because the trade off gold for exp nearly always worth it on ET.
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If your team lacks damage and not too countered by BKB, midas (optional veil) dagon is good too.
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I've recently been building Meteor Hammer on ET and I've been really enjoying it.
It's super greedy I think as opposed to Aether/Euls as the first big pickup, but it assists everything ET does best I think. Let's you push super heavily by yourself, gives you huge solo kill potential, and can decimate teamfights if you get a big sleep off.
Anyone else try this?
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heros' really good right now, hes one of those heroes that destroys pub games
idk about items
FWIW, here’s what my thought are having played him 20-30 games at 5k in the last month.
- Preferably offlane, as the farmer in a dual lane / with a strong roamer
- astral spirit gives you a fuck ton of damage and movement speed early, so starting boots or oov is actually very good if you have kill potential
- bad trilanes will feed in to you, as people misjudge how much damage you do early
- good trilanes will shut you down
- abuse stacks and creep waves. With a few points in astral, you can throw your spirit in a stack, pull it back while running from their two supports (and putting the spirit through them) and get +100 damage early. You can easily turn a kill attempt or at least trade.
-two main builds I’ve tried:
MS — phase or tranq, drums euls shiva, kinda the classic et stuff. Crank move speed, focus on high mobility and magic damage. MS talent, mag resist talent, stomp talent. Works best when you are trying to stall the game out, deal safe damage, high-ground defence style, generally safe and straight forward et play.
Dps— treads drums echo sny bkb ac. In the right game can be really good. Mid game at lv 15 with the astral talent you can hit for 400 damage. With echo sabre you can almost one shot supports. You can man fight most cores and win because of your aura. It’s pretty funny to have a jug try to solo you and you 3 shot him.
I’ve tried meteor hammer but I think for the price Euls is just better, cause the set up for stomp and the move speed and regen. The perfect stomp in to meme hammer never really happens, and tbh, earth splitter follow up is almost always enough damage to win the fight if you catch them
The MS/magic dmg builds are probably the way to go. He relies on bkb to do anything mid game otherwise.
Oh yeah and obviously you get wand and soul ring regardless
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On February 27 2018 03:53 ahw wrote:
heros' really good right now, hes one of those heroes that destroys pub games
idk about items
FWIW, here’s what my thought are having played him 20-30 games at 5k in the last month.
- Preferably offlane, as the farmer in a dual lane / with a strong roamer
- astral spirit gives you a fuck ton of damage and movement speed early, so starting boots or oov is actually very good if you have kill potential
- bad trilanes will feed in to you, as people misjudge how much damage you do early
- good trilanes will shut you down
- abuse stacks and creep waves. With a few points in astral, you can throw your spirit in a stack, pull it back while running from their two supports (and putting the spirit through them) and get +100 damage early. You can easily turn a kill attempt or at least trade.
-two main builds I’ve tried:
MS — phase or tranq, drums euls shiva, kinda the classic et stuff. Crank move speed, focus on high mobility and magic damage. MS talent, mag resist talent, stomp talent. Works best when you are trying to stall the game out, deal safe damage, high-ground defence style, generally safe and straight forward et play.
Dps— treads drums echo sny bkb ac. In the right game can be really good. Mid game at lv 15 with the astral talent you can hit for 400 damage. With echo sabre you can almost one shot supports. You can man fight most cores and win because of your aura. It’s pretty funny to have a jug try to solo you and you 3 shot him.
I’ve tried meteor hammer but I think for the price Euls is just better, cause the set up for stomp and the move speed and regen. The perfect stomp in to meme hammer never really happens, and tbh, earth splitter follow up is almost always enough damage to win the fight if you catch them
The MS/magic dmg builds are probably the way to go. He relies on bkb to do anything mid game otherwise.
Oh yeah and obviously you get wand and soul ring regardless
Are there any particular carries you would pick ET to lane against? Or is he picked to help generally in teamfights? Is EB/dagon still good on him or are there other utility items to get aside from ms and shiva?
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Imo the main reason I don't see right-click ET as viable is because you need that setup for astral spirit to actually do damage. If his lvl 15 talent doubled his bonus damage from heroes he'd be probably viable. But it's basically impossible to hit more than 2 heroes with spirit unless the enemy is sleeping and you don't have time in a teamfight to let your spirit run through a creep camp.
His lvl 20 and 25 right-click talents are insane though, so what do I know.
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On March 01 2018 22:37 Archeon wrote:
Imo the main reason I don't see right-click ET as viable is because you need that setup for astral spirit to actually do damage. If his lvl 15 talent doubled his bonus damage from heroes he'd be probably viable. But it's basically impossible to hit more than 2 heroes with spirit unless the enemy is sleeping and you don't have time in a teamfight to let your spirit run through a creep camp.
His lvl 20 and 25 right-click talents are insane though, so what do I know.
It’s not as black and white as that because there are lots of summon heroes in the meta and you can get some pretty insane damage up if they don’t expect it. Heroes like Chen, beast, Lycan, etc. Even in regular games you do 300+ most team fights past 20 mins. In crazy games you can get up to 400. And creep waves get really big late in to the game.
I think the real problem is he needs bkb to do anything. If you get a big spirit off, you have a few seconds to punish them. If you get kited or they have evasion you are pretty fucked. And you are pretty bad until spirit comes up again.
After some more games and thinking it’s probably best just to get 2-3 pts in astral for laning dominance, then go full MS/magic.
100 Dmg echo stomp is actually a lot in a long game and helps push waves out. And earthsplitter CD is actually too good to pass up as fun as perma satanic is.
As far as matchups go, pretty much any agility carry has a nightmare time against ET because you ruin their scaling. Jug, spec, morph, am, pa. And the weaker laners will get trashed by you +1 roamer
Item wise IDK, euls seems like a no brainer. Dagon is great if you are ahead and max e early. I think burst builds are kinda a waste though because his team fight and control is so good, every MS on the spirit makes a big difference for setting up fights
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i58.tinypic.com/szehhs.png)
