EPTI think Miracle warrants playing around to a high degree but I would agree that TL is too set on Miracle being the 1. He can pull off playmakers very well and Matumba used to be very consistent in hitting creeps to #1 net worth. I believe they solved their farm priority problems in a very 1 dimensional manner which has come back to hurt them in the long run.
Team Liquid Discussion - Page 335
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
I think Miracle warrants playing around to a high degree but I would agree that TL is too set on Miracle being the 1. He can pull off playmakers very well and Matumba used to be very consistent in hitting creeps to #1 net worth. I believe they solved their farm priority problems in a very 1 dimensional manner which has come back to hurt them in the long run. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
In addition, there is no T1-Captain available right now at least not somebody who is on the same level as Kuro in Terms of experience and skill. I am a big fan of Matu but it really looks like they are not really finding a way to enable him. Most of his heroes are not in the best shape, I liked their approach during MDL when they have switched him back to the hard carry role and give Miracle the space creating carries. The new patch just came online, they have now plenty of time to find out new strategies and approaches to the game. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
Matumbaman seems to be the most obvious choice but I think he's more a case of being hard to fit into the team composition rather than a lack of skill. Similarly I don't think there's an obvious player of higher skill available, just players that are more suited to playing a sacrificial role with a hero pool that suits that play style. The more I think about it the more I feel like Liquid would benefit more from revisiting their farm distribution rather than roster changes. #freematumba | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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ironcell
Chile1127 Posts
On June 01 2019 05:36 hunter_x wrote: i hope they dont change lineup. i could understand it, if they do bad after TI, but now would not be a good time. and there is no real upgrade for any role, it would just be for the sake of changing something. Totally agree with this, most of the "fans" posting for a change or writing them as "shit" for playing all season without trying hard enough, forget that this team has the strategic depth, the chemistry and the cohesion to place very high at TI, this team only lacks one achievement and is that is to win TI one more time, all else must feel "whatever". But it is worth to get to TI with a mark on your back like VP and TL last year or Secret and VP this one? You can be the king of the season and then you are out at top 6 at TI, where is all your effort then? The competitive dota 2 scene is all about TI, the rest is whatever... in the end, you can won 4 majors, play bad at TI and be wrote as "successful but not enought". But you win TI and all is forgiven and your favourite team is the GOAT. I dont know if a competitive replacement to Matu or Kuro (LOL, really?) could be found in some unstable tier 2 western team, someone wrote to work around the farm distribution of the team, that man definitely knows better. Also Gambit today was on fire... | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
For the past 2 years, they solve their greed issue by winning the early game more and have more map control right from the start. When Matu plays his cancer heroes, he suppresses the enemy mid and creates space on his own. It's like a domino effect kind of thing. When Matu pressures mid hard, enemy supports have to rotate to help mid. Liquid supports start having lots of space to wreck havoc, Liquid win their sidelanes harder and down towers down earlier. Mid game comes, they just keep shoving in lanes to have more space for their own farm. Even when they occasionally switch Miracle to mid carry, they maintain this same playstyle by having advantageous lane matchups. It isn't as simple as moving Miracle to flashy mids and Matu to carry. If they do so, the rest of the team also needs to adjust by playing more sacrificial to secure their 1 and 2 farm instead of having a cancer mid hero creating his own space. This was in fact their first playstyle when they started out which didn't have much success. Matu is definitely the best player in the world to play his hero pool of cancer heroes. So Liquid took the easy way out and didn't try to expand their playstyle which make them susceptible to icefrog's patches in the long run. To say it bluntly, Liquid players are individually skilled by somewhat stubborn in their playstyle just like EG. In comparison OG's players are less individually skilled but could easily adjust to totally different drafts on the fly without much practice. | ||
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noh2o
China71 Posts
no,Is kuro a Support? no, he is a carry he has a carry heart all the time. | ||
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On June 01 2019 05:36 hunter_x wrote: i hope they dont change lineup. i could understand it, if they do bad after TI, but now would not be a good time. and there is no real upgrade for any role, it would just be for the sake of changing something. for sure, they are a really good team with the best (or top 5) players on each role, but they're not in TI winning form and I can't see them getting to it, unless they work some magic in the bootcamp pre-ti. Since Ti4 there's always a team that is clearly the best. Newbee, EG, Wings, Liquid, LGD, ?. Actually last TI was the closest if i'm honest, but still, LGD had the better grip on the meta and drafting, og won by pure magic. Anyways, I still believe in the boys, if anyone can figure stuff out it will be them. | ||
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Ferricks
26 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
On June 01 2019 14:23 Ferricks wrote: True. They should be able to figure it out. I still remember 2017 where they placed last at DAC 2017 and mediocre finish at Kiev Major, then they peaked around dreamleague, epicenter and finally won TI7. Lets be positive. this! | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
Also not playing many games may be a good thing - as people wont be watching you play and figure out the strats you came up with after the new patch. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On June 01 2019 20:31 NInoff wrote: This event means absoluteley nothing to the top teams, i can assure you - ofcourse its not fun to lose, but they all are playing it to test the patch just before Epicenter. And even Epicenter - yeah it is probably the biggest event outside TI - but everyone thinks about TI now thats all that matters. Keep in mind that the TI champions also dropped out, and Secret started in lower bracket. Also not playing many games may be a good thing - as people wont be watching you play and figure out the strats you came up with after the new patch. They should be taking this tournament seriously though. Most trophies go on shelves but for the MVP winner, you get to drive your trophy. Who wouldn't want that? Although I have my doubts that there are many people on Liquid with driver's licenses. | ||
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Savatage
Italy182 Posts
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noh2o
China71 Posts
On June 02 2019 02:49 Savatage wrote: The classic narration of "they don't care about X event - series" is so fucking wrong. To get to the top level in a really competitive enviroment like the pro gaming scene you must have a big winning attitude, every pro player want to win every fucking game. Of course they get that some events and series are less meaningfull, but every game counts forward the big target, TI. Nobody can waste their time playing like they don't care, they travel - train - get worked up for every event they commit. agreed, | ||
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noh2o
China71 Posts
On June 01 2019 14:23 Ferricks wrote: True. They should be able to figure it out. I still remember 2017 where they placed last at DAC 2017 and mediocre finish at Kiev Major, then they peaked around dreamleague, epicenter and finally won TI7. Lets be positive. This times is different. | ||
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solid.salve3
80 Posts
Let them play together for long time technically, they are in good moment to built of top team, but the proceses are variant strugling Lets Go Liquid Dota Together Forever | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On June 02 2019 02:49 Savatage wrote: The classic narration of "they don't care about X event - series" is so fucking wrong. To get to the top level in a really competitive enviroment like the pro gaming scene you must have a big winning attitude, every pro player want to win every fucking game. Of course they get that some events and series are less meaningfull, but every game counts forward the big target, TI. Nobody can waste their time playing like they don't care, they travel - train - get worked up for every event they commit. You shouldn't take the "They don't care" narattion literally. Most the teams use that kind of tournaments to try the new meta, test how certain heroes work after the patch - and skrim with different opponents. Its more like an official training. Can you imagine how VP will forfeit a tournament if it was a major for example? Maybe they decided they need some time off before the end of the season. In any case you don't want to have a target on your back heading in to TI. The times when your opponents know what you will do and are unable to counter it are over. Teams are fuc*ing good, and most games are decided weather or not you can hit the timing of your strat - and because of that a mistake from one of your teamates, or a play from an opponent means you are behind, and you have to all in on a smoke or something to win, and that usually doesn't work. Take the Secret vs TNC series - 3 games - first game was kind of equal, but TNC missed their timing, second game Secet drafted greedy and TNC made them look like a bunch of noobs 24: 2 or something. Third game it was the other way around. My point - teams are good, they understand dota very well, and if you make a couple of mistakes - you are done. Some drafts look wrong when you see the game playout not because they were wrong - but because the team that drafted failed to hit their timing. I feel like the current meta is very unforgiving. Everything has hard counter, and you can not make mistakes. Hopefully our boys can have the best week of their lives during TI, but make no mistake it will be very very hard. | ||
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unseengaming1992
United States4 Posts
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