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It's more about looking in between the lines.
I have my issues with Rtz and I always had but to have 1437 and Zai back him up it's kind of a big one. I don't dislike Kuro, but he has now caused 2 big teams to more or less implode.
The old saying goes, Once is an accident, two is a trend.
Then again, I'm also speculating so...
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On August 16 2015 19:20 Seraphic wrote:It's more about looking in between the lines. I have my issues with Rtz and I always had but to have 1437 and Zai back him up it's kind of a big one. I don't dislike Kuro, but he has now caused 2 big teams to more or less implode. The old saying goes, Once is an accident, two is a trend. Then again, I'm also speculating so...
I think I agree. Although I do also think that by his very nature RTZ is difficult as person in general. So having these two issues in one team was always bound to become fairly toxic in the end
I feel bad for Puppey and S4, such nice guys who just wanted to win a second TI
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On August 16 2015 19:30 Hai1Fyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2015 19:20 Seraphic wrote:It's more about looking in between the lines. I have my issues with Rtz and I always had but to have 1437 and Zai back him up it's kind of a big one. I don't dislike Kuro, but he has now caused 2 big teams to more or less implode. The old saying goes, Once is an accident, two is a trend. Then again, I'm also speculating so... I think I agree. Although I do also think that by his very nature RTZ is difficult as person in general. So having these two issues in one team was always bound to become fairly toxic in the end I feel bad for Puppey and S4, such nice guys who just wanted to win a second TI
They could have won if s4 showed up in ti though..
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On August 16 2015 19:20 Seraphic wrote:It's more about looking in between the lines. I have my issues with Rtz and I always had but to have 1437 and Zai back him up it's kind of a big one. I don't dislike Kuro, but he has now caused 2 big teams to more or less implode. The old saying goes, Once is an accident, two is a trend. Then again, I'm also speculating so...
given the facts that were fed to the public, u can argue that rtz has caused 2 big teams to more or less implode as well.
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Even if RTZ is correct with his "80% of what kky is talking about are lies" I really would like to know what 20% are true ... like if he really wanted to clear the steam and have a talk about issues and such!
It's just a big heap of mumbojumbo at this point...
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Man I hate the kky post so much. Even if 2/3rds of it are lost in translation, he ad hominem'd the fuck out of RTZ in every way you can ad hominem a younger person. And then he didn't reply to any of RTZ's points.
I don't know how much of what RTZ said was true, but Kuro didn't have the guts to say anything to the contrary, and just tried his best to undermine RTZ's authority. Very manipulative indeed.
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On August 16 2015 21:20 son1dow wrote:
Man I hate the kky post so much. Even if 2/3rds of it are lost in translation, he ad hominem'd the fuck out of RTZ in every way you can ad hominem a younger person. And then he didn't reply to any of RTZ's points.
I don't know how much of what RTZ said was true, but Kuro didn't have the guts to say anything to the contrary, and just tried his best to undermine RTZ's authority. Very manipulative indeed.
Lel, what points? You're talking about who is right or wrong on an issue that you don't know. All RTZ said is that he hates Kuro but he didn't say why (unless you think vague statements like "he's not the nice guy from interviews" as being a point). How do you bring a counterargument when there's no clear accusation?
Tbh, both parts looked bad here. RTZ had no reason to bring private matters into the spotlight considering he and Kuro already went separate ways and wouldn't have to deal with each other any longer. Dragging other people into it is shitty as well, especially when it's someone like Puppey who's been an old friend of Kuro and someone who RTZ claims to respect.
Kuro obviously did something to piss his teammates off and his statement is evasive and condescending, trying to undermine his fault in Secret's internal issues and blame it the emotional immaturity of RTZ. Nobody looks good here, it's just a ridiculous situation where people argue in public over something that the public doesn't know.
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RTZ said a lot of things, including that kuro was a bad teammate, didn't admit his faults, that he made rtz hate him.
You're right, I shouldn't have said counterarguments, but it seems like we agree kuro didn't reply in a meaningful way.
RTZ's fault in this drama seems to be his lack of privacy. I prefer that to being evasive, condescending and manipulative.
Not to pick sides of course. Nobody wins here, and public opinion wouldn't select a winner if anyone did. Just saying I find RTZ's side more relatable.
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At first I liked Kuro so much given how he played and how much he contributed to the teams he played, but time passed and every move he made (real life moves), made me doubt him, I began to have second thoughts about him. Reached this point, I really believe Kuroky has two faces, but quite different instead of slightly.
I feel he is the kind of guy who gives that "everything is ok" aura, but when shit accumulates he will the first taking a boat for himself leaving whoever it may be behind.
If this goes on I guess even his relationship with Puppey will end bad.
RTZ may be a teenager but at least, be he wrong or right, he speaks his mind, Kky on the other hand plays the mature guy who already went through that and pays no mind, but I won't give him credit anymore. Even Xboct who was always flamed gets real in interviews, he may not like it but he states things as they are.
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I really like KKY, he is like one of my favorite players ever, and I read his whole statement.
But I must say that there was too much passive aggressive bullshit in that statement.
He never actually said anything bad about RTZ but he was always discrediting him in every sentence.
It's like, "everything is cool but you know rtz is a kid", "we got no bad blood but you know he is immature", "i love him as a person but you know he has issues", "i'm sure we can leave this behind but you know he is a teenager dota celeb", "he is a really good player but you know stubborn as fuck". Literally all statement goes like this.
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On August 17 2015 01:09 Invoker wrote:
I really like KKY, he is like one of my favorite players ever, and I read his whole statement.
But I must say that there was too much passive aggressive bullshit in that statement.
He never actually said anything bad about RTZ but he was always discrediting him in every sentence.
It's like, "everything is cool but you know rtz is a kid", "we got no bad blood but you know he is immature", "i love him as a person but you know he has issues", "i'm sure we can leave this behind but you know he is a teenager dota celeb", "he is a really good player but you know stubborn as fuck". Literally all statement goes like this.
Oh but this is just how the translation comes off mate. He doesn't mean any of it, you just have to call a person you disagree with names after every sentence. That's just how the German language is. Correct translation to english would remove all those names Kuroky called RTZ, and we wouldn't have any of this drama.
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On August 16 2015 21:20 son1dow wrote:
Man I hate the kky post so much. Even if 2/3rds of it are lost in translation, he ad hominem'd the fuck out of RTZ in every way you can ad hominem a younger person. And then he didn't reply to any of RTZ's points.
I don't know how much of what RTZ said was true, but Kuro didn't have the guts to say anything to the contrary, and just tried his best to undermine RTZ's authority. Very manipulative indeed.
Of course you would rather have a guy do his dirty laundry outside , its more "straight shooter" right ? well in sports this is the MOST dissrepctful thing to do in a team sport , taking dirt out of the dressing room is like the biggest NONO there is , and RTZ does it , you guys blame kuro all you want , bottom line RTZ shouldnt go public like he does , dragging puppey views on Kky and just trainsh the guys name , is kuro response passive aggresive ? sure , is he wrong saying RTZ acts like a child ? most certainly not , because .... he does . certainly he didnt acted like a man in a team sport thats for sure.
great player , still a kid , nothing passive aggressive about it , just the truth.
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On August 17 2015 01:58 son1dow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 01:09 Invoker wrote:
I really like KKY, he is like one of my favorite players ever, and I read his whole statement.
But I must say that there was too much passive aggressive bullshit in that statement.
He never actually said anything bad about RTZ but he was always discrediting him in every sentence.
It's like, "everything is cool but you know rtz is a kid", "we got no bad blood but you know he is immature", "i love him as a person but you know he has issues", "i'm sure we can leave this behind but you know he is a teenager dota celeb", "he is a really good player but you know stubborn as fuck". Literally all statement goes like this. Oh but this is just how the translation comes off mate. He doesn't mean any of it, you just have to call a person you disagree with names after every sentence. That's just how the German language is. Correct translation to english would remove all those names Kuroky called RTZ, and we wouldn't have any of this drama.
Ermm, I don't think it is up to you to decide whether Kky means any of it or not. And I disagree on what you say about the German language.
Edit: I am gonna read the original post first, then can I make an accurate statement.
Edit 2: I just finished reading Kky's post. The translation brings tones that have nothing to do with the meaning of the post. Kky was only trying to calm the waters.
Every time he says teenage or young he is addressing RTZ's reactions and conduct, whether implying he is overreacting or just too hot headed. Of course, putting yourself on the other side of the street and letting slide that you are mature won't help any stranger interpret your words as you may want them to. Ultimately he writes in a kind of "proud" way but he said his performance was rather low the last two games.
If you want some specific correction about any paragraph or sentence let me know.
Edit 3: Also, when he says RTZ is an internetboy and everything about that topic he seems to be stating a difference between how he wants to deal with things in comparison to RTZ, I didn't find any bad intention behind it.
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If he writes it, he better believe we will think he means it. All in all, the amount of times Kuro said that RTZ is young, immature or something like that is the most condescending thing about it. Does the amount of times translate a lower number? So for example, 10 times in German should translate to 2 in English?
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My personal summary so far:
Arteezy is an immature disrespectful brat
Kuro is an underhanded manipulative asshole
I don't think I want to support a team with either of these guys going forward.
I only cheered for secret because of Puppey and S4, so I hope they stay together on Secret
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On August 17 2015 04:53 son1dow wrote:
If he writes it, he better believe we will think he means it. All in all, the amount of times Kuro said that RTZ is young, immature or something like that is the most condescending thing about it. Does the amount of times translate a lower number? So for example, 10 times in German should translate to 2 in English?
He is condescending, no doubt about that. But one thing is to say something trying to spew shit at someone and another one is giving his insight about why someone behaves like RTZ does, while trying to reduce the hate towards that guy.
I am not defending Kuroky, I don't trust him anymore, but in my case, for different stuff.
The best Kky could have done is stay low and shut up, because there was no way for him to express himself and be taken in a positive way while saying what he wanted to say, the other possibility was to agree with RTZ and say he got everything right, which I guess does not believe.
You can take calling someone immature as an insult or as an observation, both are valid, but given the context and the content you can surely realize that RTZ IS still young, even if he says he grew and realized things and so on. What RTZ is doing is looking for a way to reassure his thoughts and feelings on this matter, because the younger you are usually translates in less self-confidence and the need to hear the agreement of third-parties.
I read the post to my girlfriend who knows nothing about Dota or even related stuff and she said "that guy is defending the so called RTZ, condescending but ultimately defending him", so for someone who has not a single idea, and is probably less biased than us, it sounds quite different.
Edit: If what bothers you is the amount of times he called him young or immature then I can pick every sentence and translate them to English, maybe it helps more than reddit's slightly inaccurate translation. But tomorrow, now I am off to sleep.
On August 17 2015 04:59 Hai1Fyre wrote:
My personal summary so far:
Arteezy is an immature disrespectful brat
Kuro is an underhanded manipulative asshole
I don't think I want to support a team with either of these guys going forward.
I only cheered for secret because of Puppey and S4, so I hope they stay together on Secret
You got it right dude, I share your opinion, didn't cheered for Secret in the least though.
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On August 16 2015 03:22 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2015 00:42 Nikto wrote:On August 16 2015 00:12 Faruko wrote:
TS slightly falling appart ?
Aui seems like an obvious move no it isn't actually because Canada connection issues Well Aui is a professional and just made a ton of money. He can afford to relocate.
"could", but this could doesn't make him an obvious move 
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On August 17 2015 06:17 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 04:53 son1dow wrote:
If he writes it, he better believe we will think he means it. All in all, the amount of times Kuro said that RTZ is young, immature or something like that is the most condescending thing about it. Does the amount of times translate a lower number? So for example, 10 times in German should translate to 2 in English?
He is condescending, no doubt about that. But one thing is to say something trying to spew shit at someone and another one is giving his insight about why someone behaves like RTZ does, while trying to reduce the hate towards that guy. I am not defending Kuroky, I don't trust him anymore, but in my case, for different stuff.The best Kky could have done is stay low and shut up, because there was no way for him to express himself and be taken in a positive way while saying what he wanted to say, the other possibility was to agree with RTZ and say he got everything right, which I guess does not believe. You can take calling someone immature as an insult or as an observation, both are valid, but given the context and the content you can surely realize that RTZ IS still young, even if he says he grew and realized things and so on. What RTZ is doing is looking for a way to reassure his thoughts and feelings on this matter, because the younger you are usually translates in less self-confidence and the need to hear the agreement of third-parties. I read the post to my girlfriend who knows nothing about Dota or even related stuff and she said "that guy is defending the so called RTZ, condescending but ultimately defending him", so for someone who has not a single idea, and is probably less biased than us, it sounds quite different. Edit: If what bothers you is the amount of times he called him young or immature then I can pick every sentence and translate them to English, maybe it helps more than reddit's slightly inaccurate translation. But tomorrow, now I am off to sleep. Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 04:59 Hai1Fyre wrote:
My personal summary so far:
Arteezy is an immature disrespectful brat
Kuro is an underhanded manipulative asshole
I don't think I want to support a team with either of these guys going forward.
I only cheered for secret because of Puppey and S4, so I hope they stay together on Secret You got it right dude, I share your opinion, didn't cheered for Secret in the least though.
just to get this out of the way, are you somehow acquainted with Kuro, I just want to know, I don't want to be dragged into a discussion who is right or wrong etc, but this info will make some things clearer in regards to your post, you don;t have to respond publicly if you don't want to
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I don't think puppy will leave secret. It would be a bit weird if Kuroky left as well because he basically founded the team. So my thought would be that N0tail puppey and iceiceice will probably continue under the secret name. Maybe a notail mid and misery comes in to support.. who knows..
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EPT
