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On August 07 2015 22:13 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 22:05 goody153 wrote:
I don't think you can actually take all the farm in the map as SF and qop has the ability to farm the more dangerous areas,. They have both done the qop-sf so many times in the past that i've seen them both have high farm on a even game against an enemy, So that should have never been a problem,
I feel like at game 3 they aren't just playing well as a team + VP outplaying them. (can't take the credit of VP aggression paid off) It is not that SF took all the farm in the map, he took the small amount that reached their base. You can see how s4 had to go to enemy jungle a few times to find some, and not long after that TPd to defend base. There was not enough farm to share. The map was VPs.
It's a very obvious choice to put qop into the dangerous areas over SF. Cause you know you are qop has a innate escape mechanism and SF doesn't (even if sf brought dagger that's still a buildup needed and it has limitations compared to qop blink).
I'm not sure what rubick pick was supposed to do . The hero is generally a weak support until levels are obtained + mana boots. And besides SF needs to farm majority of the time while SF can join on the fights. It's generally up to the supports + offlaner or supports + mid to gain map control for the team.
On August 07 2015 22:25 Corr wrote:
There will be roster changes. I think when pressure gets high there's no clear voice in the team keeping everyone on the same page. s4 calling moves doesn't work if the game is uphill and RTZ/zai have a different opinion on how to proceed (even if they don't voice it)
While what's happening inside the roster isn't clear to us . So far as i can tell the hints internal conflict point out on rtz+zai vs kky + s4 + puppey(maybe). That's just speculation though.
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On August 07 2015 22:25 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 22:13 Racket wrote:On August 07 2015 22:05 goody153 wrote:
I don't think you can actually take all the farm in the map as SF and qop has the ability to farm the more dangerous areas,. They have both done the qop-sf so many times in the past that i've seen them both have high farm on a even game against an enemy, So that should have never been a problem,
I feel like at game 3 they aren't just playing well as a team + VP outplaying them. (can't take the credit of VP aggression paid off) It is not that SF took all the farm in the map, he took the small amount that reached their base. You can see how s4 had to go to enemy jungle a few times to find some, and not long after that TPd to defend base. There was not enough farm to share. The map was VPs. It's a very obvious choice to put qop into the dangerous areas over SF. Cause you know you are qop has a innate escape mechanism and SF doesn't (even if sf brought dagger that's still a buildup needed and it has limitations compared to qop blink). I'm not sure what rubick pick was supposed to do . The hero is generally a weak support until levels are obtained + mana boots. And besides SF needs to farm majority of the time while SF can join on the fights. It's generally up to the supports + offlaner or supports + mid to gain map control for the team.
Of course, that choice was the only acceptable given the situation. My point is everyone picking on s4 when the guy played to the best of his abilities restricted by how well VP played that game.
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In game 2 was enigma picked after or before Silencer ?
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
they let storm thru the bans in game 3 and dont even draft any control for him
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On August 07 2015 22:46 Faruko wrote:
In game 2 was enigma picked after or before Silencer ?
Last pick, greedy af.
Wait!
Edit: No, Silencer was last pick. Anyway, the problem with Enigma was the lack of BKB, his BH got cancelled everytime.
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On August 07 2015 22:42 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 22:25 goody153 wrote:On August 07 2015 22:13 Racket wrote:On August 07 2015 22:05 goody153 wrote:
I don't think you can actually take all the farm in the map as SF and qop has the ability to farm the more dangerous areas,. They have both done the qop-sf so many times in the past that i've seen them both have high farm on a even game against an enemy, So that should have never been a problem,
I feel like at game 3 they aren't just playing well as a team + VP outplaying them. (can't take the credit of VP aggression paid off) It is not that SF took all the farm in the map, he took the small amount that reached their base. You can see how s4 had to go to enemy jungle a few times to find some, and not long after that TPd to defend base. There was not enough farm to share. The map was VPs. It's a very obvious choice to put qop into the dangerous areas over SF. Cause you know you are qop has a innate escape mechanism and SF doesn't (even if sf brought dagger that's still a buildup needed and it has limitations compared to qop blink). I'm not sure what rubick pick was supposed to do . The hero is generally a weak support until levels are obtained + mana boots. And besides SF needs to farm majority of the time while SF can join on the fights. It's generally up to the supports + offlaner or supports + mid to gain map control for the team. Of course, that choice was the only acceptable given the situation. My point is everyone picking on s4 when the guy played to the best of his abilities restricted by how well VP played that game.
From what we've seen this is not the standard secret and they just got rekt by VP. However we can count that as a bad day for team. Like all teams had bad or subpar performances from time to time and secret is no exception.
Hopefully they'd still be playing together and not have doubt with each other.
On August 07 2015 22:48 ahswtini wrote:
they let storm thru the bans in game 3 and dont even draft any control for him
hey at least they didn't go full bone7 and 2nd picked AM and last picks his hero (as an offlaner lol)
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On August 07 2015 22:49 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 22:46 Faruko wrote:
In game 2 was enigma picked after or before Silencer ? Last pick, greedy af.Wait! Edit: No, Silencer was last pick. Anyway, the problem with Enigma was the lack of BKB, his BH got cancelled everytime.
Global silence goes through BKB, it was a damn hard game. I kinda agree on the crimsom guard, it let them fight
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On August 07 2015 22:53 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 22:49 Racket wrote:On August 07 2015 22:46 Faruko wrote:
In game 2 was enigma picked after or before Silencer ? Last pick, greedy af.Wait! Edit: No, Silencer was last pick. Anyway, the problem with Enigma was the lack of BKB, his BH got cancelled everytime. Global silence goes through BKB, it was a damn hard game. I kinda agree on the crimsom guard, it let them fight
You are right but wait until you watch the game.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On August 07 2015 22:48 ahswtini wrote:
they let storm thru the bans in game 3 and dont even draft any control for him
this is reminiscent of when puppey was drafting and a last pick medusa was not dealt with by picking a nyx. i clearly remember him saying at the end of that game where they lost that he wishes he could have it back. i bet s4 is wishing the same.
their entire strategy is built around s4 winning mid and keeping rtz alive. but that's not how you win games because bkb wears off and the duration shrinks..players make moves that force you to use your skills and back off to reset because their CD's are shorter.
secret's number was found and they were outdrafted. i dont understand why they ban the silencer when they beat it in g1. they let g's most played hero get through (idc if he didnt play it all tournament, that hero has been good for a while, its not like he's never touched it) and after losing to it in g2 (and on numerous other occasions for the same reason - no control), they let him get out of control with only a hex to disable him.
I actually felt like I was in a pub bc there were two players doing the heavy lifting, an important support that would get killed warding in a bad location, and a core with only one item that's marginally useful vs a fully loaded storm. It was upsetting to watch unfold. And it was likely from a lack of scrims.
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Russian Federation3334 Posts
On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ?
Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes.
Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare.
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meh i was being too harsh to S4, he should stay. Secret should kick Arteezy no matter what, Zai is going to take a break anyway. They werent able to practice as team because of EG duo, Zai was just fucking around in scrims, and its not possible to practice in good mode when you have Arteezy in your team.
Just get EGM and Bulldog, put KuroKy on carry and you have better team than this one. At least they can scrim and improve.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare.
i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back)
On August 07 2015 23:51 Mensol wrote:
meh i was being too harsh to S4, he should stay. Secret should kick Arteezy no matter what, Zai is going to take a break anyway. They werent able to practice as team because of EG duo, Zai was just fucking around in scrims, and its not possible to practice in good mode when you have Arteezy in your team.
Just get EGM and Bulldog, put KuroKy on carry and you have better team than this one. At least they can scrim and improve.
where do you get this info from?
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Russian Federation3334 Posts
On August 07 2015 23:53 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare. i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back)
Well, I think raging might not make you play worse, but it certainly makes the whole team play worse (or get mad irritated). I know if I had a player who was doing well but trashing his supports and other teammates, I'd insta-mute him. And then chemistry issues arise. So like my original post said, what if RTZ is just a crazy great player who might be one of the most individually skilled players but can't stay in a team until he fixes some parts of his personality. Thoughts?
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On August 08 2015 00:04 Bisu-Fan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 23:53 BluemoonSC wrote:On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare. i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back) Well, I think raging might not make you play worse, but it certainly makes the whole team play worse (or get mad irritated). I know if I had a player who was doing well but trashing his supports and other teammates, I'd insta-mute him. And then chemistry issues arise. So like my original post said, what if RTZ is just a crazy great player who might be one of the most individually skilled players but can't stay in a team until he fixes some parts of his personality. Thoughts?
seems rather speculative
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Are they really having problems practicing together as a team?
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SoCal8910 Posts
On August 08 2015 00:04 Bisu-Fan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 23:53 BluemoonSC wrote:On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare. i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back) Well, I think raging might not make you play worse, but it certainly makes the whole team play worse (or get mad irritated). I know if I had a player who was doing well but trashing his supports and other teammates, I'd insta-mute him. And then chemistry issues arise. So like my original post said, what if RTZ is just a crazy great player who might be one of the most individually skilled players but can't stay in a team until he fixes some parts of his personality. Thoughts?
On August 08 2015 00:14 prplhz wrote:
seems rather speculative
yep. there was definitely some conflict occurring between the players, but who knows what actually happened until someone actually reports something. from what i understand players do rage at each other from time to time, so i doubt it was inhibiting their play throughout the entire main stage part of the tournament.
On August 08 2015 00:16 IntoTheheart wrote:
Are they really having problems practicing together as a team?
no one knows anything until one of the players or cyborgmatt says something
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On August 08 2015 00:04 Bisu-Fan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 23:53 BluemoonSC wrote:On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare. i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back) Well, I think raging might not make you play worse, but it certainly makes the whole team play worse (or get mad irritated). I know if I had a player who was doing well but trashing his supports and other teammates, I'd insta-mute him. And then chemistry issues arise. So like my original post said, what if RTZ is just a crazy great player who might be one of the most individually skilled players but can't stay in a team until he fixes some parts of his personality. Thoughts?
In his 2 years of competitive dota he's been on the 2 strongest teams in the west that have won a ton of tourneys or placed in top 2-3 (outside of this TI and a few upsets ie Dreamhack) How can you say that he "can't" stay on a team.
Yes the flame wasn't good, but people forget that until recently he didn't even turn 18 lol.
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On August 08 2015 00:17 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 00:04 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 23:53 BluemoonSC wrote:On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare. i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back) Well, I think raging might not make you play worse, but it certainly makes the whole team play worse (or get mad irritated). I know if I had a player who was doing well but trashing his supports and other teammates, I'd insta-mute him. And then chemistry issues arise. So like my original post said, what if RTZ is just a crazy great player who might be one of the most individually skilled players but can't stay in a team until he fixes some parts of his personality. Thoughts? yep. there was definitely some conflict occurring between the players, but who knows what actually happened until someone actually reports something. from what i understand players do rage at each other from time to time, so i doubt it was inhibiting their play throughout the entire main stage part of the tournament. Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 00:16 IntoTheheart wrote:
Are they really having problems practicing together as a team? no one knows anything until one of the players or cyborgmatt says something
arteezy basically admitted they have a problem scrimming together.
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On August 07 2015 23:53 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare. i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back) Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 23:51 Mensol wrote:
meh i was being too harsh to S4, he should stay. Secret should kick Arteezy no matter what, Zai is going to take a break anyway. They werent able to practice as team because of EG duo, Zai was just fucking around in scrims, and its not possible to practice in good mode when you have Arteezy in your team.
Just get EGM and Bulldog, put KuroKy on carry and you have better team than this one. At least they can scrim and improve. where do you get this info from?
Mensol went from being a huge Secret fanboy to a huge secret hater post the winter shuffle. I would not take his criticisms seriously lol. Also the Alliance + Na'Vi mix is only like 2 years too late lol
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On August 08 2015 00:19 bagels21 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 00:17 BluemoonSC wrote:On August 08 2015 00:04 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 23:53 BluemoonSC wrote:On August 07 2015 23:48 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 07 2015 14:28 zdarr wrote:On August 07 2015 10:45 CbossIV wrote:On August 07 2015 10:43 Bigtony wrote:
The QOP pick two games in a row for S4 was incredibly weak and they never had a solution for storm spirit. :| Really good point, and when I think about it I honestly felt like S4 on the QoP "Underperformed" threw out the entire tournament. But then again they have always given up the Lina pick.....and the one thing this tourny has taught is the Lina is to be feared. Possibly they felt forced to pickup the QoP so they couldn't have both Lina / QoP? The double BKB peirce is popular. Well they did pick lina, 3 times, 2 against iG and one against vp (the first game) and then proceed to win all those games. And with a better drafting strategy, they could pick sf qop and have a lina on ppy if they really want to rely on those hero for RTZ and s4. s4's qop wasnt that bad, but vp know how to play around a qop and minimize it's impact so eventually it's less effective. Letting storm get so far in the draft, when it's your nemesis as you dont pick stuns, is really silly, even more when you ban anti mage. And again it's really weird when you see the draft they had when they won their first game against vp (3 stun + dark seer + a lot of aoe dmg) I hope they stay together though, the next season with the majors is promicing a lot of quality tournaments (and probably lots of compendiums and $$ for the players). Zai might reconsider as they are still a strong squad beside some disappointments but did we ever saw a team playing 2 ti with no roster changes between ? Na'vi TI3 and TI4 didn't have any roster changes. Not trying to be flaming, but does anyone else think RTZ might be too raging to properly be on a winning team? When things are going well, he's one of the best carries in the world, but I'm scared for him turning out to be like a second, albeit vastly superior SingSing. Unlike Sing, teams are still going to flock to get him on his team. But I'm worried a bit if this becomes a recurring pattern. But then again this is dota, and it's still such an unrefined scene that bad breakups are the norm and pleasant, mutual separations are rare. i doubt rtz raging is why there is an issue. from a psychological standpoint, raging results in poor play and both zai and artour kept secret in the game despite poor play from s4 (see: top where he blinks in to sonic wave and gets immediately blown up and is forced to buy back) Well, I think raging might not make you play worse, but it certainly makes the whole team play worse (or get mad irritated). I know if I had a player who was doing well but trashing his supports and other teammates, I'd insta-mute him. And then chemistry issues arise. So like my original post said, what if RTZ is just a crazy great player who might be one of the most individually skilled players but can't stay in a team until he fixes some parts of his personality. Thoughts? On August 08 2015 00:14 prplhz wrote:
seems rather speculative yep. there was definitely some conflict occurring between the players, but who knows what actually happened until someone actually reports something. from what i understand players do rage at each other from time to time, so i doubt it was inhibiting their play throughout the entire main stage part of the tournament. On August 08 2015 00:16 IntoTheheart wrote:
Are they really having problems practicing together as a team? no one knows anything until one of the players or cyborgmatt says something arteezy basically admitted they have a problem scrimming together.
Is there an easy-to-find source for this or is it just one of those passing remarks?
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