|
On March 23 2016 14:17 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2016 14:11 DucK- wrote:
Not sold on this lineup. Reason being that I see 2 farm heavy cores in the lineup. Rtz is quite an inflexible mid imo. Previous eg and secret had Mason fear and s4 to take on the safe lane play making role if necessary, while I don't see envy capable of doing it. W33 was able to play play making heroes as well. This acquisition limits secret style of play and make them heavily reliant on universe puppey and pld to make plays.
Also who is going to play the naga now? nah this is the dream EE was the perfect player to complement RTZ, and has always been. We saw that at MLG 2013. EG was broken with Sumail and RTZ, possibly the most inflexible pairing of all time. Now that was two farm heavy cores that had no idea how to work together.
You really dont understand Dota man..... what you write makes 0 sense .....or you just too happy from the moves that you too blind to see what you write.
|
EE and RTZ finally joining forces again. I thought I would grow old before this day came.
|
Personally i'm happy with the artEEzy dream is finally but i don't agree with ch33psh33p EE being a perfect compliment with rtz. I mean we can have EE and universe adjust but rtz not so much. And as far as we know most EE teams sometimes demand to adapt with EE when the team goes 1v5 lineups.
Individual skill wise we have an upgrade obviously universe is the better offlaner and rtz has been the better farming core and has the better laning but about less flexibility i don't think that's true, w33ha had a certain playstyle where the team abides while rtz played all kinds of mid before but of course the question of will rtz be willing to play old mid style which might be unlikely.
Allstar sure but we already know that better individual skill doesn't necessarily make a better team , team cohesion and chemistry has always been the biggest factor.
but idc honestly it's artEEzy i'm happy however this goes
I'm more curious with wth is happening with eg.
|
if we don't see rtz puck at least once i'll be upset
not because i want to see rtz puck, just cause i want to see rtz to play real mid heroes for once
|
RTZ is a very flexible core and most of EG's inflexibility came from PDDs drafting and his inability to play certain supports. Along with RTZ and Sumail clashing to some degree, especially within this new patch. I think most importantly, EE and RTZ both believe in the same style of DotA, whereas RTZ and PDD disagreed on how the team should operate.
|
Oh no no, we've already had rtz play puck and all that mid heroes before and he did well. The question is will he play how the mid meta goes and not succumb to where he excels and comfortable the 1 position role.
Old c9 replaced sing for fata and we know fata played alot of mid heroes (puck etc so i have a feeling the reason was more of sing's inflexiblity as mid than anything). Universe can obviously adapt for rtz, i've seen EE adapt for another core before (playing nyx for rtz's sf during kaipi times and doom/silencer for the singsing meepo).
It's more about willing to adapt rather than capable of playing
Speaking of Arteezy puck
+ Show Spoiler +rtz puck laning against TA with living armor mlg times
|
rtz played tempo heroes like puck etc a long time ago. I can't say he cannot play those heroes, but I can say he is unproven on those. After 2 years of playing exclusively carry-ish heroes (SF/TA/OD/Razor etc) even in the mid lane, it is indeed strange to see him play other types of mid. Remember in his old teams when there's a need to play puck/brew/qop etc, S4/fear/mason would be the one playing them instead.
|
I'm pretty sure he's good at it but that's the issue he played 1 position in a wayyy too long time and tempo-mid is definelety not how he plays today. Unless this team is going full dual-core + hoping puppey doesn't go jungle so they don't get demolished laning stage. Or maybe you get EE and Universe go full SADBOYS and you make them adapt all the time.
|
The real question is:
With EG and Secret changing rosters, are the direct invites still valid? I say no, four days before the lock means everyone should play qualifiers. More so given how every team is losing/winning to everyone.
|
On March 23 2016 16:31 Racket wrote:
The real question is:
With EG and Secret changing rosters, are the direct invites still valid? I say no, four days before the lock means everyone should play qualifiers. More so given how every team is losing/winning to everyone.
I think you look at Secret players , all were going to get invited if they stayed the same teams , so why should they qualify now ? i say you invite Secret 100% , EG still doesn't have a roster so who knows.
|
Zai talked about playing as 5. Will pld be the next?
|
On March 23 2016 16:31 Racket wrote:
The real question is:
With EG and Secret changing rosters, are the direct invites still valid? I say no, four days before the lock means everyone should play qualifiers. More so given how every team is losing/winning to everyone.
that's still 3/5 of Secret and they won shanghai
Also what bluzi said makes sense.
On March 23 2016 17:12 t3rm1nal wrote:
Zai talked about playing as 5. Will pld be the next?
i don't removing pie will improve this lineup
i'd rather remove a 4 for zai but that's puppey they can't remove their major shotcaller+drafter that's practically suicide
|
Vatican City State1573 Posts
this is speed gaming , with better offlane and captain.
i want yo watch secret vs mvp , because mvp playstlye remind me of speed gaming
|
On March 23 2016 17:15 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2016 16:31 Racket wrote:
The real question is:
With EG and Secret changing rosters, are the direct invites still valid? I say no, four days before the lock means everyone should play qualifiers. More so given how every team is losing/winning to everyone. that's still 3/5 of Secret and they won shanghai Also what bluzi said makes sense. Show nested quote +On March 23 2016 17:12 t3rm1nal wrote:
Zai talked about playing as 5. Will pld be the next? i don't removing pie will improve this lineup i'd rather remove a 4 for zai but that's puppey they can't remove their major shotcaller+drafter that's practically suicide
True, but it is not about 3/5 of them winning a Major or the 2 new being good. It is about staying together and achieving something together. [A] was TI3 winner with the same members that a year later crashed and burned.
Again, it is not about the players or what they won or how they performed a month ago, it is about promoting a stable scene and making everyone's effort count.
I don't doubt they might perform extremely well, we all know them. It just seems unfair, just because the names have weight then they get an invite.
On the same topic, I hardly believe, and it makes more sense as time goes by, that direct invites should be kept at all anymore, every team is losing left and right and not even against the same teams. It is not like before where you had 3 teams dominating the scene, now we have 2, 3 or 4 that usually perform well but they do not dominate anymore.
As in football, qualifying should be a thing for everyone.
|
Every team crashed and burned after a year or two i don't understand your point.
If it's about roster stability for everybody i don't think they did wrong they didn't kick the players outside of roster shuffle time. They followed the rules.
Too bad for the other players since it's 4 days before the shuffle but why are you complaining about when they are doing it within the roster shuffle period ? So are they still wrong if they did it under roster shuffle period or is the valve system flawed ? I'm confused why do we still blame them if they followd the rules.
If it still wrong that they kicked somebody within the roster shuffle period who is supposed to provide stability then i don't understand your point. So changing roster is wrong? nobody should change roster is that it ?
And if it's about alliance sucking after losing s4, i need to remind you that alliance sucked without the exact 5 player in their roster right now. Did the rest of the players from secret suck without being to secret ? Did rtz and universe only excel with EG ? Are the players of the new secret has been historically the same case as Black or Sing or W33ha who only played well under 1 team ?
They didn't pickup some two 5k players that has zero results in the pro scene, they picked up two of the best players in their position on another team who is doing well so potential and performance is out of the question.
|
On March 23 2016 18:27 goody153 wrote:
Every team crashed and burned after a year or two i don't understand your point.
If it's about roster stability for everybody i don't think they did wrong they didn't kick the players outside of roster shuffle time. They followed the rules.
Too bad for the other players since it's 4 days before the shuffle but why are you complaining about when they are doing it within the roster shuffle period ? So are they still wrong if they did it under roster shuffle period or is the valve system flawed ? I'm confused why do we still blame them if they followd the rules.
If it still wrong that they kicked somebody within the roster shuffle period who is supposed to provide stability then i don't understand your point. So changing roster is wrong? nobody should change roster is that it ?
And if it's about alliance sucking after losing s4, i need to remind you that alliance sucked without the exact 5 player in their roster right now. Did the rest of the players from secret suck without being to secret ? Did rtz and universe only excel with EG ? Are the players of the new secret has been historically the same case as Black or Sing or W33ha who only played well under 1 team ?
They didn't pickup some two 5k players that has zero results in the pro scene, they picked up two of the best players in their position on another team who is doing well so potential and performance is out of the question.
The direct invites are wrong, that is my point. You can keep the shuffle period but the direct invites are wrong.
With the way the scene is right now, if every team played qualifiers, some of the "always invited" teams could be left out and that would end this always invited non-sense. If, for instance, Liquid beat Secret in the qualifiers, or VP or even Vega, Secret would not qualify and the direct invite would mean you are giving away a chance for someone who may be doing a real effort and could not show it as the scene is particularly hard, stacked.
I am not blaming the team or the players, I am stating that the scene has evolved so much that invites are plain wrong.
I name football as an example because in South America you had 2 super strong teams who beat everyone for 50 years, but these last 10 years, the weak teams grew stronger and Brazil and Argentina are qualifying giving their all and there were times where they didn't depend on themselves to qualify.
I see the same here.
|
Invites are there to prevent the actual stables teams getting fluked by awful and we seeing a shitty competition. That's because there are ALOT A LOT of teams that are only good at one tournament or a couple of series. That's true look at what happened to Vega. You want a blunt example navi from ti5 qualifiers they are the "best" of EU qualifiers and what happened to them at TI5 ? How well did they fare against the "invited" teams? Even if we look back more rarely did we have some qualifier teams owning against everybody ( CDEC ), it's usually the qualifier team getting owned more than them owning(mouz).
The qualifiers give the other unproven team chances to fight back.
The invite's can be wrong sometimes but that's just part of it which is better than risking watching a bunch of bad teams play against each other in the most important tournaments of dota just because they did well over 1 series. Holy shit that's so bad. Believe it or not FORMS exist in dota. Stable teams suck sometimes and get fluked but shit teams can win sometimes and suck the entire year.
And are you seriously doubting to invite the last major qualfiers ? Does the shanghai invite on Secret look like a mistake now ? I seriously i hope some time from now i don't see you making an argument of "but navi beat x team in 1 b03 they should be invited even though they lost like 10 of their other series against other teams!" and you making an argument right now that the best team of the last valve tournament not get invited and that performing well does not matter shit at all.
|
now that It settled down a bit
I really feel bad for w33 and Misery, I really like them both. secret should've at least release a statement about their parting too. best of luck to the two of them.
the new roster have ridiculous potential, man I want to watch them play as soon as possible
|
I have a bit of faith on misery he's the more flexible of the two, w33ha will have a bit of a problem if i'm right since he never really been a contender before Secret.
Well as happy as i am with arteezy and EE finally in one roster. I wouldn't have minded if there were no changes at all, i didn't even expect changes except maybe 1 player or two but not this kind of change.
Seriously though a bit of a douche move by Secret to kick players a few days before the roster shuffle ends.
|
yeah i would've been happy with no changes as well, i had doubts about misery but he ended up playing really well in the shanghai major.
this just seems like a calculated move from puppey to destabilise other teams
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
