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On October 28 2014 01:25 Jelissei wrote:
Can someone explain to me why they didn't ban Lycan? How did they think they would be able to control him? I feel five seconds BKB on lycan is enough (for rtz) to crush any opposition.
Were they trying to outcarry? Against a pushing lineup? Why would a Jakiro (first ban phase) be more dangerous then a Lycan?
It doesnt matter, they have atleast 5 midcarries above 70% winrate, but if you ban all of them you are giving the creme de la creme of heros to EG. Both teams are pretty similar, they have such a deep pool of heros.
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You're saying that another hero would've wrecked havoc as well? I don't know... I would have liked for Secret to at least force EG to try somethink different instead of letting them pick Lycan again.
The game felt predictable to me. For a while I thought Secret could actually win, but then Lycan became to strong again. Obviously it wasn't only Lycan who won that game. But I feel other heroes can be controlled better, or rather Secret can control most of the oponents heroes. With Lycan it didn't seem to be the case.
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On October 27 2014 19:55 TheSmokeyy90 wrote:
Hard to root for just one team in Dota. N0tail is the fucking man, definitely one of my favorite players.
I second this. Dem fissures, so good.
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55 minute into game 5. All they have to do is wait 20 minutes to farm 2 more cheeses and 6 more items across medusa, doom, etc. EG was getting less off the map and their hard carry lylcan would gain very little from swapping inevntory.
Secret game of throws 322
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On October 28 2014 07:25 common_cider wrote:
55 minute into game 5. All they have to do is wait 20 minutes to farm 2 more cheeses and 6 more items across medusa, doom, etc. EG was getting less off the map and their hard carry lylcan would gain very little from swapping inevntory.
Secret game of throws 322
at 41 minute, Eg wiped them at mid and claimed mid raxes. also Secret bought back 2 heroes i think that time. as if EG is gonna wait longer before they try to finish the game. also, i dont think EG is that at disadvantage late game.
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On October 28 2014 07:25 common_cider wrote:
55 minute into game 5. All they have to do is wait 20 minutes to farm 2 more cheeses and 6 more items across medusa, doom, etc. EG was getting less off the map and their hard carry lylcan would gain very little from swapping inevntory.
Secret game of throws 322
It's true that Arteezy was almost six slotted but that actually made Secret have to try to make a play. EG knew they were getting capped out so they were going to push for another lane of racks and if Secret just sat and defended they would lose that. They had enough team fight and Medusa had decent enough damage to win a fight if they got an initiation. Win a fight, even racks, make it harder for EG to push and then stall the game, if they sat passively, it would of been a loss when EG went for next push.
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Kky could start by not going linkens on Medusa. What's up with the obsession for that shit item.
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On October 28 2014 13:42 DucK- wrote:
Kky could start by not going linkens on Medusa. What's up with the obsession for that shit item.
Something to try to give him a little more protection from mana burn probably. Going for just stats wouldn't help due to nyx's scaling mana burn, it wasn't enough but I see why he went for it. I'm more suprised by the early Daedlus pick honestly.
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On October 28 2014 13:45 the bear jew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2014 13:42 DucK- wrote:
Kky could start by not going linkens on Medusa. What's up with the obsession for that shit item. Something to try to give him a little more protection from mana burn probably. Going for just stats wouldn't help due to nyx's scaling mana burn, it wasn't enough but I see why he went for it. I'm more suprised by the early Daedlus pick honestly.
5k gold on an item that provides nothing fantastic. It is one of the worst first items to get on Medusa. She is a hero with shit mobility and isn't slippery like weaver/morph. If a team cannot kill Medusa with a linkens, they cannot kill a Medusa without it.
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Medusa's itemization was delayed so hard I'm not sure the normal logic applies. I don't know if Linkens was the right choice in that situation but it certainly wasn't wrong simply because it normally would have been. It was not a normal game.
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On October 28 2014 14:16 FHDH wrote:
Medusa's itemization was delayed so hard I'm not sure the normal logic applies. I don't know if Linkens was the right choice in that situation but it certainly wasn't wrong simply because it normally would have been. It was not a normal game.
When your itemisation is delayed so hard, all the more you don't waste 5k on an item that does nothing for you. It doesn't even help you with turtling.
Its like trying to finish up drums on a guard ember when he got shut down. Yea you can't fight now, you can't fight either with drums. Work towards a straight bf instead.
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On October 28 2014 14:30 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2014 14:16 FHDH wrote:
Medusa's itemization was delayed so hard I'm not sure the normal logic applies. I don't know if Linkens was the right choice in that situation but it certainly wasn't wrong simply because it normally would have been. It was not a normal game. When your itemisation is delayed so hard, all the more you don't waste 5k on an item that does nothing for you. It doesn't even help you with turtling. Its like trying to finish up drums on a guard ember when he got shut down. Yea you can't fight now, you can't fight either with drums. Work towards a straight bf instead.
After a certain point, Medusa's Ult was the only thing that would stop a BKB Lycan, and her mana pool was constantly getting screwed over by Nyx.
Can't say if it made any real difference considering teamfight execution, but having Linkens just to be able to Stone Gaze is fairly legitimate for the circumstances.
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On October 28 2014 13:42 DucK- wrote:
Kky could start by not going linkens on Medusa. What's up with the obsession for that shit item.
Which obsession, it was the first time he went for Linkens on Dusa, and only because he was playing against Nyx.
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On October 28 2014 13:18 the bear jew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2014 07:25 common_cider wrote:
55 minute into game 5. All they have to do is wait 20 minutes to farm 2 more cheeses and 6 more items across medusa, doom, etc. EG was getting less off the map and their hard carry lylcan would gain very little from swapping inevntory.
Secret game of throws 322 It's true that Arteezy was almost six slotted but that actually made Secret have to try to make a play. EG knew they were getting capped out so they were going to push for another lane of racks and if Secret just sat and defended they would lose that. They had enough team fight and Medusa had decent enough damage to win a fight if they got an initiation. Win a fight, even racks, make it harder for EG to push and then stall the game, if they sat passively, it would of been a loss when EG went for next push.
Botomline, Secret was getting stronger by the minute and EG was getting weaker by the minute. The graphs showed it, and Kuro was only 4 slotted. Secret took the last Rosh+cheese uncontested.
Eg might make a desperation throne play, but you can't count on it. Even if they try it, it's only that. A low percentage desperation play. Plus, it's better to fight with high ground and tower shots.
EG was hiding inside their base and had been turtling for the at least the last 10 minutes preparing to lose. The onus was on EG to try some crazy low percentage play. Instead Secret gifted them a near team wipe with NO buybacks.
Secret only had to wait for buybacks, items and cheese/aegis.
When your playing an intense 55 minute game, it's hard to be patient. They had been abusing Ravage cooldown the whole game, but forgot to pump the brakes when they had EG inside their base.
MVP of the game is universe. Bait Secret into throwing the game by burning ravages
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It's not entirely clear to me, discarding the benefit of hindsight, whether going for the win or stalling out would have been better for Secret but I am leaning towards a stall being better. It's a goddamned Medusa and it had just started to get strong. If you *can* stall and get another item on Medusa and another 2-3 items overall, you should, unless you feel like you are already at an overwhelming advantage, which they were not. But the counter-arguments to this have been presented here and are legitimate.
I think stalling would have been better but we only know how one of those options turned out, and even then, individual plays helped determine the result.
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On October 29 2014 09:08 FHDH wrote:
It's not entirely clear to me, discarding the benefit of hindsight, whether going for the win or stalling out would have been better for Secret but I am leaning towards a stall being better. It's a goddamned Medusa and it had just started to get strong. If you *can* stall and get another item on Medusa and another 2-3 items overall, you should, unless you feel like you are already at an overwhelming advantage, which they were not. But the counter-arguments to this have been presented here and are legitimate.
I think stalling would have been better but we only know how one of those options turned out, and even then, individual plays helped determine the result.
Secret advantage of stalling
1-2 items on Medusa
1-2 items on a midas Doom
1000+ gold/exp /minute off the map
4 buybacks
1-2 cheeses
Arguably the buybacks being the most important.
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On October 29 2014 12:40 common_cider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2014 09:08 FHDH wrote:
It's not entirely clear to me, discarding the benefit of hindsight, whether going for the win or stalling out would have been better for Secret but I am leaning towards a stall being better. It's a goddamned Medusa and it had just started to get strong. If you *can* stall and get another item on Medusa and another 2-3 items overall, you should, unless you feel like you are already at an overwhelming advantage, which they were not. But the counter-arguments to this have been presented here and are legitimate.
I think stalling would have been better but we only know how one of those options turned out, and even then, individual plays helped determine the result. Secret advantage of stalling 1-2 items on Medusa 1-2 items on a midas Doom 1000+ gold/exp /minute off the map 4 buybacks 1-2 cheeses Arguably the buybacks being the most important.
I should say...the advantage of attempting to stall. If they could stall/farm effectively, then yes, advantage them. But it's not clear that would have worked.
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Anyone got a total tally of pro games Secret played and their record? So far I think their only losses were against EG, Alliance, and VG?
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On October 30 2014 10:01 Emnjay808 wrote:
Anyone got a total tally of pro games Secret played and their record? So far I think their only losses were against EG, Alliance, and VG?
And ASC. That Finnish stack that beat them in Dreamleague Qualifier Finals.
EDIT: JD has something similar: www.joindota.com
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EPT
