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Alliance Discussion - Page 159

Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion
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LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
June 20 2016 11:57 GMT
#3161
I don't think they were much ahead of skill besides bulldog at TI3. It was their radical strategy with unique offlane + farm distribution nobody could figure out that let them dominate.

And they've kept coming to the same thing ever since then every time they were pressed against the wall. S4 needs to grow some balls, and pull some of their for sure practiced, heavily
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
bluzi
Profile Joined May 2011
4703 Posts
June 20 2016 13:16 GMT
#3162
On June 20 2016 17:54 jack_knife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2016 04:43 sang wrote:
On June 19 2016 21:35 jack_knife wrote:

s4 spent too much time with grill, i dont think bulldog is the issue, bulldog has to play core hero because loda is too old to carry this team, loda was the best carry back to dota1 age for sure, but not now.


Bulldog is definitely one of the issues. He can really only play three heroes at the highest level: Prophet, Lone Druid and Brood, and they don't even pick Lone Druid anymore. His Beastmaster is alright but somewhat hit and miss. Just look at his match history: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/76482434/matches. He's played Void, DS and Slardar before, but Alliance will rarely draft them for Bulldog and when they do and lose a game, they don't draft it again.

As I've said before Alliance's has two big issues right now. First, they are entirely one dimension in their draft, which Bulldog's limited hero pool contributes to. In Manila, they really only showed proficiency with Loda on play-making carries like Slardar and Centaur. In Frankfurt, they only showed Loda's TB and S4's Brewmaster. Once teams started banning and picking against it, Alliance didn't have a fall-back strat. One of the things that makes Liquid and OG so good is that they can run literally every top meta strat combination extremely well: Void+Phoenix, Lifestealer + BH/Riki, Slardar+1, etc etc. Liquid and OG aren't just amazing in game, they are impossible to draft against because they can play a wide range of strategies so well. Alliance simply cannot.

The second big issue Alliance has is their in-game passivity and decision making. They are absolutely terrible at punishing greed (i.e. junglers or Alchemist) or making aggressive rotations. Part of this has to do with the supports they pick and another part of it has to do with their warding. Just go back and watch Alliance's warding post-10-15 minutes and compare that to teams like Liquid, OG, and hell even NaVi. It's embarrassing how bad their warding game is. This means Alliance's smoke ganks succeed less often and they open themselves up to superior vision and ganks from their opponents.

Again, they aren't a bad team, I have them on the same level as Fnatic and NaVi, but definitely clearly tier below the likes of OG, Liquid, Newbee, MVP (and maybe LGD).


clock, weaver, doom, beastmaster, darkseer, warlock, slardar, LD, furison, brood. that's his hero pool. The reason why bulldog only performance well with farm hero is [A] doesnt have a hardcore carry, if u see their games, loda was always behind his networth, unless they play 1 core draft like antimage, Naga. am not saying loda is bad, he is good, he can play more heros for sure, but when u cant farm like a monster as carry, u have 0 chance vs top team like OG, liquid.


He has a wicked Void as well and bristleback.
I agree with Zeal , its not the hero pool is how they match up vs the other team lineup , you can't have a good game as a brood vs a god damn Axe and you sure aint winning a brewmaster mid with Drow vs a timber and Ursa and void (or whatever they picked) that can close the gap in 2 seconds.

They showed brilliant drafting with the dazzle + brew into TB + Brood which caught everyone off guard but its a pocket strat unless you can expand on the first 2 , currently they can't.
Timber looks like a MUST pick now days , the main issue is still not having a playmaking support (or letting him make plays) , you see Crit/Jerax running around with that Earth spirit winning lanes and games we don't have that opening , we never pressure the lanes unless its a Loda Tri lane , passivity is costing us games left and right , if we can't play aggressive dota then we need to play a greedy defensive lineups like Alch mid and the likes .....
have faith that TI qualifiers will drive them , going to be hard as hell for sure.
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34171 Posts
June 20 2016 14:38 GMT
#3163
Secret and Alliance are my votes... but its going to be fucking hard

Vega came out of nowhere and play some good dota this weekend, Empire has been playing well lately and Ad Finem was looking hot lately (althou its been like a month since i saw them playing)... even No Diggity, also VP has been fucking bad lately but they have the skill, they just need to work a 100%

This is such a bloodbath
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
WakaDoDo
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden1183 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-20 14:55:24
June 20 2016 14:55 GMT
#3164
On June 20 2016 23:38 Faruko wrote:
This is such a bloodbath

The real bloodbath happens when the boys go to Seattle > !
Zea!
Profile Joined November 2006
9589 Posts
June 20 2016 21:17 GMT
#3165
Akke's blog about invites:

https://officialakke.com/2016/06/20/invites-to-ti6/
The Real Power~
sweatbomb
Profile Joined September 2014
Sweden469 Posts
June 20 2016 23:48 GMT
#3166
On June 21 2016 06:17 Zea! wrote:
Akke's blog about invites:

https://officialakke.com/2016/06/20/invites-to-ti6/


This blog shows exactly why they weren't invited. They don't even realize they have been playing like complete dogshit lately.
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
June 21 2016 00:48 GMT
#3167
On June 21 2016 08:48 sweatbomb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2016 06:17 Zea! wrote:
Akke's blog about invites:

https://officialakke.com/2016/06/20/invites-to-ti6/


This blog shows exactly why they weren't invited. They don't even realize they have been playing like complete dogshit lately.

lol Akke's logic is so subpar much like his performance lately.

Dodging tournament actually gives a chance for other team to perform well and snatch their invites instead.

Someone at Alliance needs to get his shit together and smack out the entitlement mentality that's ruining this team.

Was a fan of Akke. Not so much now.
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-21 00:55:16
June 21 2016 00:52 GMT
#3168
On June 21 2016 06:17 Zea! wrote:
Akke's blog about invites:

https://officialakke.com/2016/06/20/invites-to-ti6/

I can only imagine that he's still quite emotional to write that. I can't otherwise understand how he would get to the conclusion that
As it is now, the system might encouraged teams to skip events because it can give Valve a reason to not invite you.

That's just the exact opposite because of the negative spin he gives it about how fnatic were "robbed" of their spot. In fact I'd say the exact opposite, it places massive importance on showing up in tournaments. Navi would not have gotten the invite without a good ESL placement (which granted had bracket luck involved, not going to deny that).
I can only assume that he is pissed and because of that rather than looking at it as a chance to qualify for Navi, perceives it as a chance to fail for fnatic.
That's quite sad in itself.

Sure, skip out on events if you think that they're potentially screwing you over. Maybe that's the case if you're Liquid/OG/Newbee (+MVP?) and suddenly start bombing out of everything but outsides of those, top finishers at events are needed.
And if you're not at those events whoever else gets 2nd / 3rd place (or first and manages to upset Liquid/OG) is 100% secured for an invite, which means you won't get one even if you didn't bomb out because you stayed home~
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
GinNtoniC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden2945 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-21 07:23:11
June 21 2016 07:21 GMT
#3169
On June 21 2016 06:17 Zea! wrote:
Akke's blog about invites:

https://officialakke.com/2016/06/20/invites-to-ti6/

Oh Akke, can you please just let it go and focus on the games at hand?
Yes you had a good run in december-january, but that's in the past! You're not top 6 nor top 8 anymore.
Buckle up and practise!

On June 21 2016 08:48 sweatbomb wrote:
This blog shows exactly why they weren't invited. They don't even realize they have been playing like complete dogshit lately.

Exactly my thoughts. They still (somehow) think they're a tier 1 team and that these recent losses have just been bad luck.
Huge fan of JulyZerg, HonestTea and that guy Kim Taek Yong.
bluzi
Profile Joined May 2011
4703 Posts
June 21 2016 08:00 GMT
#3170
Akke is correct if Valve want to look at the entire year , but no where did they say it was the case , its is own theory on how they are doing it which is what causing all the fuss , if they have a point system like tennis for example in which you know your placement and the scores of every tournament and can decide if you want to attend or not in order to get "direct" invite to a grand slam or final masters of the 8 players.
There is no denying that Fnatic did better then Navi aside from ESL , they did extremely well in the majors(Fnatic) and got rejected.
I would give Navi the nod if they were inviting a large number of teams but as it stands with 6 invites Navi deserve it less then Fnatic for example.

tldr - Valve should formalise their rankings.
lookfirewood
Profile Joined May 2011
1212 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-21 08:11:50
June 21 2016 08:09 GMT
#3171
On June 21 2016 16:21 GinNtoniC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2016 06:17 Zea! wrote:
Akke's blog about invites:

https://officialakke.com/2016/06/20/invites-to-ti6/

Oh Akke, can you please just let it go and focus on the games at hand?
Yes you had a good run in december-january, but that's in the past! You're not top 6 nor top 8 anymore.
Buckle up and practise!

Show nested quote +
On June 21 2016 08:48 sweatbomb wrote:
This blog shows exactly why they weren't invited. They don't even realize they have been playing like complete dogshit lately.

Exactly my thoughts. They still (somehow) think they're a tier 1 team and that these recent losses have just been bad luck.


First off, not only to you, but to all ppl emotional towards akkes words, Akke is made it very clear he's salty. Even signing the entire blog with PJsalt. Which easily translates to "take my words lightly". But instead you lot got kind of offended.

Second, he's right about Valve being unclear about their agenda, but that's nothing new, and it adds to his salt.

I agree with Bluzi, and so many others, Valve should be more clear. Until then, mishaps like the one that bothers akke, is very likely to happen. Before majors were introduced all resultes over the year had impact over invites, not only the few months before TI. So I understand the frustration. I am not saying A deserves an invite, they clearly played badly over the last few months, but there are other questionmarks in the invites that brings frustration over the invite system. Which really isn't a system until explained.
R.I.P STX 03.08.2013 never forget.
GinNtoniC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden2945 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-21 08:11:23
June 21 2016 08:09 GMT
#3172

Sigh, here goes Loda too. They might be right. They might be wrong.
That's not the point! The point is: What's done is done!
Jesus, if they could just let go of this entitlement mentality and face the fact that they have to focus on the task at hand...

Edit: @lookfirewood
Sure, you might be right. My point above still stands: Neither Akke nor Loda should waste energy on that right now Take it up with Valve after the season. Right now their only priority should be to focus and practise for the upcoming qualifiers.
Huge fan of JulyZerg, HonestTea and that guy Kim Taek Yong.
lookfirewood
Profile Joined May 2011
1212 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-21 08:17:30
June 21 2016 08:15 GMT
#3173
On June 21 2016 17:09 GinNtoniC wrote:
https://twitter.com/LodaBerg/status/745165758519402496
Sigh, here goes Loda too. They might be right. They might be wrong.
That's not the point! The point is: What's done is done!
Jesus, if they could just let go of this entitlement mentality and face the fact that they have to focus on the task at hand...

Edit: @lookfirewood
Sure, you might be right. My point above still stands: Neither Akke nor Loda should waste energy on that right now Take it up with Valve after the season. Right now their only priority should be to focus and practise for the upcoming qualifiers.


Sure. He also ends by saying "time to fight". To me that signals that he wanted to vent some thoughts, and now leaves it behind and moves on. They must be entitled to have oppinions? They are clearly emotional about the entire thing.

See it this way. For them, ESL was the ONLY way to get invited. The only chance AT ALL to get a chance for an invite. Then you reply:
- "No it wasn't, they had the whole year to show what they are made of"

Well that's exactly what they did, and still didn't get invited, so hence their frustration. Their entire chance for an invite was ESL, they didn't make it, they are sad. Let them clear their throat.
R.I.P STX 03.08.2013 never forget.
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-21 08:40:01
June 21 2016 08:37 GMT
#3174
Their standard stable style suddenly worked for a few weeks around the time new patch came out where other teams were trying to figure it out by changing their styles and/or were doing stupid player swap shit and China was in the shitter - they didn't really get better, everyone got a lot worse at the time but unlike Alliance they evolved. And Alliance was mediocre for ages before, and forever after.

I think with that mentality they are forever stuck in mediocrity, once again hoping that teams around them will be in turmoil. It doesn't seem the team has the grit to really hardcore power through changing their styles, putting in countless of painful hours seriously practising new heroes and strategies and then having the balls to let go of the past and stick to their re-invented selves when it really matters, in elimination games with their backs against the wall.
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
GinNtoniC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden2945 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-21 10:01:46
June 21 2016 09:42 GMT
#3175
On June 21 2016 17:15 lookfirewood wrote:
Sure. He also ends by saying "time to fight". To me that signals that he wanted to vent some thoughts, and now leaves it behind and moves on. They must be entitled to have oppinions? They are clearly emotional about the entire thing.

See it this way. For them, ESL was the ONLY way to get invited. The only chance AT ALL to get a chance for an invite. Then you reply:
- "No it wasn't, they had the whole year to show what they are made of"

Well that's exactly what they did, and still didn't get invited, so hence their frustration. Their entire chance for an invite was ESL, they didn't make it, they are sad. Let them clear their throat.

Regarding ESL etc, that's not what I said. I consider Dec-Jan more or less irrelevant. Valve should invite the people who they consider to be the strongest in regards to rcecent events. WCA and Starladder wasn't recent.

Anyway, they are entitled to whatever bloody opinion they want. That's not my point. By point is that they're only shooting themselves in the foot by clinging to past merits and refusing to realize that they're not a tier 1 team atm.
They are entitled to PJSalt all they want, but atm they just seem to be wasting energy being frustrated over something they can't change.

On a bright note: Bulldog is owning shit up with Clockwerk in SOLO mmr queue atm.
Signs of things to come?

Edit: And then 20 mins later he joins a party with S4 who is smurfing with Nara....... Goddamnit S4
Huge fan of JulyZerg, HonestTea and that guy Kim Taek Yong.
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
June 21 2016 09:48 GMT
#3176
i have no clue who they scrim against, but i wish they would pick a variety of strong heroes that mesh well together and have a clear plan, rather than their 'signature', individually.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
bluzi
Profile Joined May 2011
4703 Posts
June 21 2016 10:58 GMT
#3177
On June 21 2016 17:09 GinNtoniC wrote:
https://twitter.com/LodaBerg/status/745165758519402496
Sigh, here goes Loda too. They might be right. They might be wrong.
That's not the point! The point is: What's done is done!
Jesus, if they could just let go of this entitlement mentality and face the fact that they have to focus on the task at hand...

Edit: @lookfirewood
Sure, you might be right. My point above still stands: Neither Akke nor Loda should waste energy on that right now Take it up with Valve after the season. Right now their only priority should be to focus and practise for the upcoming qualifiers.


You clearly missing the fact that this is their LIFE and their CARRER , for them missing TI can result in the end of this career , its easy for you to dismiss it and call it entitlement or whatever else you want to call it , but "they might be right , they might be wrong" is clearly a reaction of a fan and not the guy who is trying to earn a living playing a video game , this is why they are salty and this is why they take it as they do , its not a GAME to them , its what they do as adults to earn money and progress in life.
They should waste the energy letting Valve know their (and others) stand about the invite system and the fact that something needs to be done , you don't realising the importance of it doesn't make it less important.
jack_knife
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany343 Posts
June 21 2016 13:01 GMT
#3178
On June 21 2016 19:58 bluzi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2016 17:09 GinNtoniC wrote:
https://twitter.com/LodaBerg/status/745165758519402496
Sigh, here goes Loda too. They might be right. They might be wrong.
That's not the point! The point is: What's done is done!
Jesus, if they could just let go of this entitlement mentality and face the fact that they have to focus on the task at hand...

Edit: @lookfirewood
Sure, you might be right. My point above still stands: Neither Akke nor Loda should waste energy on that right now Take it up with Valve after the season. Right now their only priority should be to focus and practise for the upcoming qualifiers.


You clearly missing the fact that this is their LIFE and their CARRER , for them missing TI can result in the end of this career , its easy for you to dismiss it and call it entitlement or whatever else you want to call it , but "they might be right , they might be wrong" is clearly a reaction of a fan and not the guy who is trying to earn a living playing a video game , this is why they are salty and this is why they take it as they do , its not a GAME to them , its what they do as adults to earn money and progress in life.
They should waste the energy letting Valve know their (and others) stand about the invite system and the fact that something needs to be done , you don't realising the importance of it doesn't make it less important.

they should let it go and try hard for TI qualify, they just didnt realize they aint top 8 team anymore. they even lost to col in shanghai Major, they need this qualify to test themself.
jack_knife
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany343 Posts
June 21 2016 13:13 GMT
#3179
here are the teams they have already lost since Shanghai Major:
tier1: og, liquid, newbee, lgd
tier2: finatic, navi, vega, vp, col, af
they have lost to 10 teams in 3 months and even lost col, af, this couldnt be worse, who the hell want invite a team like this? and akke said they lost every team with 1-2... but u still lost it, didnt you? am with [A] no matter what, but am very dispointed about what akke said. i dont think [A] deserve a direct invite.
jack_knife
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany343 Posts
June 21 2016 13:20 GMT
#3180
now, s4 is playing with grill in 4k pub...xD hope that helps ur TI qualify
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