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On June 19 2016 21:35 jack_knife wrote:
s4 spent too much time with grill, i dont think bulldog is the issue, bulldog has to play core hero because loda is too old to carry this team, loda was the best carry back to dota1 age for sure, but not now.
Bulldog is definitely one of the issues. He can really only play three heroes at the highest level: Prophet, Lone Druid and Brood, and they don't even pick Lone Druid anymore. His Beastmaster is alright but somewhat hit and miss. Just look at his match history: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/76482434/matches. He's played Void, DS and Slardar before, but Alliance will rarely draft them for Bulldog and when they do and lose a game, they don't draft it again.
As I've said before Alliance's has two big issues right now. First, they are entirely one dimension in their draft, which Bulldog's limited hero pool contributes to. In Manila, they really only showed proficiency with Loda on play-making carries like Slardar and Centaur. In Frankfurt, they only showed Loda's TB and S4's Brewmaster. Once teams started banning and picking against it, Alliance didn't have a fall-back strat. One of the things that makes Liquid and OG so good is that they can run literally every top meta strat combination extremely well: Void+Phoenix, Lifestealer + BH/Riki, Slardar+1, etc etc. Liquid and OG aren't just amazing in game, they are impossible to draft against because they can play a wide range of strategies so well. Alliance simply cannot.
The second big issue Alliance has is their in-game passivity and decision making. They are absolutely terrible at punishing greed (i.e. junglers or Alchemist) or making aggressive rotations. Part of this has to do with the supports they pick and another part of it has to do with their warding. Just go back and watch Alliance's warding post-10-15 minutes and compare that to teams like Liquid, OG, and hell even NaVi. It's embarrassing how bad their warding game is. This means Alliance's smoke ganks succeed less often and they open themselves up to superior vision and ganks from their opponents.
Again, they aren't a bad team, I have them on the same level as Fnatic and NaVi, but definitely clearly tier below the likes of OG, Liquid, Newbee, MVP (and maybe LGD).
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The qualifier will probably be the last time they play together.
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As tough as the EU qualifiers always are, Alliance should definitely qualify. Out of every team on that list, they have consistently been the better team for most of the year. I feel like not qualifying would put them in a similar situation to post TI4 where some large roster changes would be warranted.
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On June 20 2016 05:24 sang wrote:As tough as the EU qualifiers always are, Alliance should definitely qualify. Out of every team on that list, they have consistently been the better team for most of the year. I feel like not qualifying would put them in a similar situation to post TI4 where some large roster changes would be warranted.
There also will be Secret in that list... it'll be definetely super hard to qualify
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On June 20 2016 05:28 Zea! wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 05:24 sang wrote:As tough as the EU qualifiers always are, Alliance should definitely qualify. Out of every team on that list, they have consistently been the better team for most of the year. I feel like not qualifying would put them in a similar situation to post TI4 where some large roster changes would be warranted. There also will be Secret in that list... it'll be definetely super hard to qualify
Secret is shit now though. They might not even make the open quals since in bo1 one dumb move can decide your fate (and Secret is full of players known for making dumb moves).
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On June 20 2016 05:28 Zea! wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 05:24 sang wrote:As tough as the EU qualifiers always are, Alliance should definitely qualify. Out of every team on that list, they have consistently been the better team for most of the year. I feel like not qualifying would put them in a similar situation to post TI4 where some large roster changes would be warranted. There also will be Secret in that list... it'll be definetely super hard to qualify
Assuming Secret gets back on track, yes it will be super hard to qualify and I'm not saying it won't be hard, but looking at that list of teams, Alliance clearly SHOULD be in the top 2 from the region given their past play. Regardless of how tough the qualifier is, none of the teams in the qualifier have proven to be as consistently good as Alliance and them not making it through would be a big flop imo. Vega, Empire, Secret, Ad Finem, VP, et all are definitely good, but they are not OG/Liquid/Newbee/MVP/LGD good. Alliance has proven at times capable of taking games off at least Liquid and Newbee and if that's the direction they want to be heading towards then taking care of business in the qualifier, no matter how difficult, should be the first step.
*Edit* Put more plainly, every team's goal should be to get to the level to be able to compete with the likes of OG and Liquid. Shooting for anything less is basically admitting you won't be able to win a championship. As such, what I'm saying is a team capable of competing at that level should make it through the qualifier - and I'm assuming Alliance wants to be at that level.
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On June 20 2016 06:01 sang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 05:28 Zea! wrote:On June 20 2016 05:24 sang wrote:As tough as the EU qualifiers always are, Alliance should definitely qualify. Out of every team on that list, they have consistently been the better team for most of the year. I feel like not qualifying would put them in a similar situation to post TI4 where some large roster changes would be warranted. There also will be Secret in that list... it'll be definetely super hard to qualify Assuming Secret gets back on track, yes it will be super hard to qualify and I'm not saying it won't be hard, but looking at that list of teams, Alliance clearly SHOULD be in the top 2 from the region given their past play. Regardless of how tough the qualifier is, none of the teams in the qualifier have proven to be as consistently good as Alliance and them not making it through would be a big flop imo. Vega, Empire, Secret, Ad Finem, VP, et all are definitely good, but they are not OG/Liquid/Newbee/MVP/LGD good. Alliance has proven at times capable of taking games off at least Liquid and Newbee and if that's the direction they want to be heading towards then taking care of business in the qualifier, no matter how difficult, should be the first step. *Edit* Put more plainly, every team's goal should be to get to the level to be able to compete with the likes of OG and Liquid. Shooting for anything less is basically admitting you won't be able to win a championship. As such, what I'm saying is a team capable of competing at that level should make it through the qualifier - and I'm assuming Alliance wants to be at that level.
Yea, that's for sure, let's aim for the best! TI6, HERE WE COME TO GET YA
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Thank you swindle, but i think that the boys need to earn this this time
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On June 20 2016 05:22 Klowney wrote:
The qualifier will probably be the last time they play together.
What makes you say that? (Besides them obviously not getting results lately).
They seem to be enjoying each other's company.
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Agreed. It's past time they stopped living on old merits. Those were great achivements, but they haven't shown neither results nor quality lately. It's time to earn it.
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On June 20 2016 06:01 sang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2016 05:28 Zea! wrote:On June 20 2016 05:24 sang wrote:As tough as the EU qualifiers always are, Alliance should definitely qualify. Out of every team on that list, they have consistently been the better team for most of the year. I feel like not qualifying would put them in a similar situation to post TI4 where some large roster changes would be warranted. There also will be Secret in that list... it'll be definetely super hard to qualify Assuming Secret gets back on track, yes it will be super hard to qualify and I'm not saying it won't be hard, but looking at that list of teams, Alliance clearly SHOULD be in the top 2 from the region given their past play. Regardless of how tough the qualifier is, none of the teams in the qualifier have proven to be as consistently good as Alliance and them not making it through would be a big flop imo. Vega, Empire, Secret, Ad Finem, VP, et all are definitely good, but they are not OG/Liquid/Newbee/MVP/LGD good. Alliance has proven at times capable of taking games off at least Liquid and Newbee and if that's the direction they want to be heading towards then taking care of business in the qualifier, no matter how difficult, should be the first step. *Edit* Put more plainly, every team's goal should be to get to the level to be able to compete with the likes of OG and Liquid. Shooting for anything less is basically admitting you won't be able to win a championship. As such, what I'm saying is a team capable of competing at that level should make it through the qualifier - and I'm assuming Alliance wants to be at that level.
Couldn't agree more. If their ambition is to be a contender for the TI championship, then getting through the European qualifiers should pretty much be "taking care of business".
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Vatican City State1573 Posts
all i know is, im getting more A games !
also this is what the boys need , not a scrims but a serious games.
good luck for them
i dont really have certain hero pick, i just hope that they know what they are planning to do and execute it good
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So we all unanimously agree this was prefarable to an actual invite?
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On June 20 2016 04:43 sang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 21:35 jack_knife wrote:
s4 spent too much time with grill, i dont think bulldog is the issue, bulldog has to play core hero because loda is too old to carry this team, loda was the best carry back to dota1 age for sure, but not now.
Bulldog is definitely one of the issues. He can really only play three heroes at the highest level: Prophet, Lone Druid and Brood, and they don't even pick Lone Druid anymore. His Beastmaster is alright but somewhat hit and miss. Just look at his match history: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/76482434/matches. He's played Void, DS and Slardar before, but Alliance will rarely draft them for Bulldog and when they do and lose a game, they don't draft it again. As I've said before Alliance's has two big issues right now. First, they are entirely one dimension in their draft, which Bulldog's limited hero pool contributes to. In Manila, they really only showed proficiency with Loda on play-making carries like Slardar and Centaur. In Frankfurt, they only showed Loda's TB and S4's Brewmaster. Once teams started banning and picking against it, Alliance didn't have a fall-back strat. One of the things that makes Liquid and OG so good is that they can run literally every top meta strat combination extremely well: Void+Phoenix, Lifestealer + BH/Riki, Slardar+1, etc etc. Liquid and OG aren't just amazing in game, they are impossible to draft against because they can play a wide range of strategies so well. Alliance simply cannot. The second big issue Alliance has is their in-game passivity and decision making. They are absolutely terrible at punishing greed (i.e. junglers or Alchemist) or making aggressive rotations. Part of this has to do with the supports they pick and another part of it has to do with their warding. Just go back and watch Alliance's warding post-10-15 minutes and compare that to teams like Liquid, OG, and hell even NaVi. It's embarrassing how bad their warding game is. This means Alliance's smoke ganks succeed less often and they open themselves up to superior vision and ganks from their opponents. Again, they aren't a bad team, I have them on the same level as Fnatic and NaVi, but definitely clearly tier below the likes of OG, Liquid, Newbee, MVP (and maybe LGD).
clock, weaver, doom, beastmaster, darkseer, warlock, slardar, LD, furison, brood. that's his hero pool. The reason why bulldog only performance well with farm hero is [A] doesnt have a hardcore carry, if u see their games, loda was always behind his networth, unless they play 1 core draft like antimage, Naga. am not saying loda is bad, he is good, he can play more heros for sure, but when u cant farm like a monster as carry, u have 0 chance vs top team like OG, liquid.
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Yeah, and the problem is when you put Loda on Slardar, Centaur etc. you have no other option but to put the Dong on a farming core.
S4 has been consistently lacking finding CS all year on pretty much any hero
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On June 20 2016 04:15 HeYmaney wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2016 21:35 jack_knife wrote:On June 19 2016 20:12 hashaki wrote:On June 19 2016 18:37 jack_knife wrote:
every single game, [A] is struggling with their draft cuz their hero pool, this is painful to watch. they have top tier players like s4,egm,donger, but they play like a real [A] only when they can draft comfortable. I don't think it's their hero pool that's dragging them down in drafts, but the inability to adapt during drafts. They seem to always start out a draft with a general idea and keep drafting around that idea nomatter what the opponents seem to draft. Same with the games they play. They have a general idea behind it and will stick to it nomatter how the laning stage/early/mid game goes. S4 still has an ok hero pool, EGM and Akke are still versatile supports, Loda can play most carries (Be it farming, splitpushing or utility/fighting). Bulldog is a problem. Along with S4 which really hasn't improved his hero pool much the last couple of years. I'm wondering why that is. Has he lost his drive to become better? The guy was considered one of the best mids a few years back. He's not that anymore, people have gotten better and he's stayed the same. I still think they have the hero pool and the skillset to be a top team. They're lacking adaptability and coordination or so it seems to me. That along with trusting themselves. Also, get out of the splitpushing dota idea. Yes it works in the right situations, but most teams are capable of holding against it or punishing you hard for not doing it flawlessly. Alliance is still great at farming the map, avoiding fighting when they need to and when they're decisive, have good teamfightability. The biggest problem I have seen lately have been Alliance being forced into teamfights more so than going for them themselves. That's a shame. TL;DR: Alliance don't have weird/bad drafts because of hero pool, but because of lack of confidence and ability to adapt based on what opponents does.Also too often focusing on a splitpush-based dota. Splitpush is situational now, not a general strat you should be going for. s4 spent too much time with grill, i dont think bulldog is the issue, bulldog has to play core hero because loda is too old to carry this team, loda was the best carry back to dota1 age for sure, but not now. I still dont get the repetitive argument of Loda being too "old".. What does this mean ? He's too old to spend 12 hours a day training ? His reflexes are affected ? Dont get me wrong, but Fear won TI5, he's as old as Loda and he was a very solid carry.
he can't farm like a real position.1 unless they play 1 core draft, pick antimage or naga for him.
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I agree that dong's heropool is ok, he's really good on a lot of heroes. The real problem is that we struggle to pick the right hero in the right situation during drafts, Alliance always picks to execute their strategy instead of counterpicking the opponent team and this is hurting them atm. They can play like that if they're way better than opponents (like in TI3 - earlier this year) but when they aren't better than opponents skillwise, this way of drafting hurt them hard.
That's why i hope they start grinding their solo mmr again if they don't want to change their way to draft :D
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Vatican City State1573 Posts
On June 20 2016 17:52 WakaDoDo wrote:
So we all unanimously agree this was prefarable to an actual invite?
i agree just because navi will not be at the regional qualifier
even though A have more titles than navi this year
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EPT
