EPT
Alliance Discussion - Page 157
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Zea!
9589 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On June 16 2016 18:10 lookfirewood wrote: Thanks racket. Think it's needed but who knows. If all players show I don't think we need luck. But if they are out of sync I believe we need all the luck we can get.  Told you, with the luck Vega got you would be able to play tomorrow. | ||
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sang
United States251 Posts
On June 19 2016 03:31 LemOn wrote: There's no way a direct invite is on the line now But main qualifier spot is guaranteed The actually played really well that game I felt after the first several minutes The only reason that game was close was because Liquid started playing extremely sloppy. Even so, for all they were able to make up thanks to Liquid's mistakes, Alliance couldn't come close to killing Fata's Timber. More importantly, they played like utter crap in the early game and do I need to even mention the draft...last picking Drow into Timber/Void/Ursa (seriously lol wtf), picking Prophet into Timber, first phase picking Brewmaster and not banning Timber in the second phase after Fata literally just got done wrecking you with the hero. Alliance aren't bad players but they are completely incapable of drafting anything advantageous for themselves against their opponents. They just pick what they want to pick and be damned if it doesn't match up well against their opponent has. To top it all off, they can't gank or pressure the map in any way once they are in the midgame so they wander around aimlessly wondering what to do. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Look at their Major games in the groups - their wacky drafts vs e.g. VG.R that worked out beautifully. In their games vs liquid they'd get way more from the map, graph goes their way only to get badly outplayed in teamfight execution and their strategy just getting overpowered by raw skill. They just revert to the comfort picks when pushed into corner, but S4 is definitely capable of some very well theory crafted drafts | ||
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Zea!
9589 Posts
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Yurie
11856 Posts
On June 19 2016 07:34 Zea! wrote: I think it's time to start picking again some DS and Clock for Bulldog from time to time, EGM should learn support Tusk and ES to open more possibilites in our drafts and s4 mb could pick again Timber and Magnus for himself? :D Magnus would be nice with these 4 melee drafts. Then Alliance might actually be able to fight the enemy without ending up with 4 of them bursting one Alliance hero at the start. Overall I would say yesterdays play was promising. In game 1 they took it back from a bad draft and made 2-3 bad calls into losing the game. Game 2 they had a good shot if they laned differently, shutting down the void instead of the void shutting down the drow. I understand they wanted to lock down supports to get S4 a solo lane but he keeps losing them, so just let them gank s4 and win other places. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On June 19 2016 15:08 hifriend wrote: Sad thing is S4 plays an amazing timber and alch. He hasn't been playing amazing nothing lately , to die solo mid is not something you see at all in Pro play anymore but he managed to do it b2b with one of them on a QoP with blink and the other he just walked INTO timber with low life not sure what he expected to happen there...... S4 currently is the main reason we are losing the Drow strat wasn't a "strat" they just went YOLO DROW because they didn't have any other carry that could fit there anymore , if it was really a drow strat they would've picked something else for mid , something that actually benefit from the aura to crush he lane. They had a really cool idea with the dazzle + brew into Brood and TB , but once the hand was played everyone knew what was coming and just banned TB second phase , the meta revolves around counters and alliance doent draft like that , for example i gave a simple suggestion (which might be dumb ... you tell me) , but instead of a Ench last pick you go DOOM jungle , i feel that hero counters the Slark/Timber really well but they never run it like that so .... also the first pick BM is exploitable as hell , other teams uses it to mask their offlane/support because the hero can be an amazing #4 if need be , but every team just let AB get it and they know the lanes straight away. Love the team but they have confidence issues can't ignore it mainly our captain which is sad to see. | ||
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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Hai1Fyre
South Africa270 Posts
Why doesn't he play the timber, alc etc? Also, his shot-calling seems very off at the moment...  | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
Anyone seen any comment/interview? | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
On June 19 2016 16:19 Hai1Fyre wrote: I'm an S4 fanboy, i cheered for him on Secret and now back on Alliance. But I find it sad that he is not at all on form at the moment... Why doesn't he play the timber, alc etc? Also, his shot-calling seems very off at the moment... this is too obviously, he spent too much time with Nara at 5K pub. the meanwhile miracle or Fata are die trying high MMR with many heros. now every team can beat [A] as soon as they can out draft [A] and make bulldog uncomfortable, cuz s4 always lost himself and stop farming, his networth looks always terrible after 20 min mark. | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
On June 19 2016 18:13 GinNtoniC wrote: Haven't seen any tweets from any of the players since last night. Anyone seen any comment/interview? i think they were pretty upset since the day b4 yesterday they lost to Vega. they just lost confidence yesterday, u can see it in the draft of game2. now they have to play quali for TI. But i think that's a good beginning, forget what they were, just make a new start. | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
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hashaki
Norway210 Posts
On June 19 2016 18:37 jack_knife wrote: every single game, [A] is struggling with their draft cuz their hero pool, this is painful to watch. they have top tier players like s4,egm,donger, but they play like a real [A] only when they can draft comfortable. I don't think it's their hero pool that's dragging them down in drafts, but the inability to adapt during drafts. They seem to always start out a draft with a general idea and keep drafting around that idea nomatter what the opponents seem to draft. Same with the games they play. They have a general idea behind it and will stick to it nomatter how the laning stage/early/mid game goes. S4 still has an ok hero pool, EGM and Akke are still versatile supports, Loda can play most carries (Be it farming, splitpushing or utility/fighting). Bulldog is a problem. Along with S4 which really hasn't improved his hero pool much the last couple of years. I'm wondering why that is. Has he lost his drive to become better? The guy was considered one of the best mids a few years back. He's not that anymore, people have gotten better and he's stayed the same. I still think they have the hero pool and the skillset to be a top team. They're lacking adaptability and coordination or so it seems to me. That along with trusting themselves. Also, get out of the splitpushing dota idea. Yes it works in the right situations, but most teams are capable of holding against it or punishing you hard for not doing it flawlessly. Alliance is still great at farming the map, avoiding fighting when they need to and when they're decisive, have good teamfightability. The biggest problem I have seen lately have been Alliance being forced into teamfights more so than going for them themselves. That's a shame. TL;DR: Alliance don't have weird/bad drafts because of hero pool, but because of lack of confidence and ability to adapt based on what opponents does.Also too often focusing on a splitpush-based dota. Splitpush is situational now, not a general strat you should be going for. | ||
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Zea!
9589 Posts
He for sure isn't playing his best (and smurfing a bit too much while practicing) but he's the best player of the team skillwise, he needs to be trusted. I love you Gustav, don't worry :D | ||
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Zea!
9589 Posts
On June 19 2016 18:13 GinNtoniC wrote: Haven't seen any tweets from any of the players since last night. Anyone seen any comment/interview? Only caught these tweets by Kelly | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
On June 19 2016 20:12 hashaki wrote: I don't think it's their hero pool that's dragging them down in drafts, but the inability to adapt during drafts. They seem to always start out a draft with a general idea and keep drafting around that idea nomatter what the opponents seem to draft. Same with the games they play. They have a general idea behind it and will stick to it nomatter how the laning stage/early/mid game goes. S4 still has an ok hero pool, EGM and Akke are still versatile supports, Loda can play most carries (Be it farming, splitpushing or utility/fighting). Bulldog is a problem. Along with S4 which really hasn't improved his hero pool much the last couple of years. I'm wondering why that is. Has he lost his drive to become better? The guy was considered one of the best mids a few years back. He's not that anymore, people have gotten better and he's stayed the same. I still think they have the hero pool and the skillset to be a top team. They're lacking adaptability and coordination or so it seems to me. That along with trusting themselves. Also, get out of the splitpushing dota idea. Yes it works in the right situations, but most teams are capable of holding against it or punishing you hard for not doing it flawlessly. Alliance is still great at farming the map, avoiding fighting when they need to and when they're decisive, have good teamfightability. The biggest problem I have seen lately have been Alliance being forced into teamfights more so than going for them themselves. That's a shame. TL;DR: Alliance don't have weird/bad drafts because of hero pool, but because of lack of confidence and ability to adapt based on what opponents does.Also too often focusing on a splitpush-based dota. Splitpush is situational now, not a general strat you should be going for. s4 spent too much time with grill, i dont think bulldog is the issue, bulldog has to play core hero because loda is too old to carry this team, loda was the best carry back to dota1 age for sure, but not now. | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
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HeYmaney
Switzerland193 Posts
On June 19 2016 21:35 jack_knife wrote: s4 spent too much time with grill, i dont think bulldog is the issue, bulldog has to play core hero because loda is too old to carry this team, loda was the best carry back to dota1 age for sure, but not now. I still dont get the repetitive argument of Loda being too "old".. What does this mean ? He's too old to spend 12 hours a day training ? His reflexes are affected ? Dont get me wrong, but Fear won TI5, he's as old as Loda and he was a very solid carry. | ||
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